Write4U's stream of consciousness

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Write4U, Dec 28, 2023.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    I certainly do. I believe that is usually the case when a concept is tested. You begin with an easy example, such as a single-celled Paramecium which navigates via kinetic pressures that allow the cell to avoid obstacles. But more remarkably the cell exhibits memory of such conditions as regularly timed intervals. Thus the cell "learns" to navigate obstacles. But does it merit "consciousness"?

    IMO, consciousness began when the self-referential experiential network looked up and asked a question. Before then the self-referential homeostatic network already was controlling the physical well-being of the organism autonomously.
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    What a completely useless claim that is.
    Pinball1970 likes this.
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Ok, do better.
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Do you know why insects are so successful? They don't ask questions.
  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Do better than just making some shit up, using meaningless terms of my own invention, you mean?
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    The aim of writing something is to communicate something, Write4U.

    Making up your own language is a failure to communicate, unless you start by explaining the language.
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    I have told you many times to ask if I am not clear enough. Frankly, I see no problem to begin with. A little thought will
    clarify many of my posits.
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    The processing of self-referential "differential equations" . Self-reference evolves into cognition.

    Partial Differential Equations is All You Need for Generating Neural Architectures -- A Theory for Physical Artificial Intelligence Systems
    Ping Guo, Kaizhu Huang, Zenglin Xu
    [/quote]The learning strategies, such as Adaptive moment estimation, L-BFGS, pseudoinverse learning algorithms and partial differential equation constrained optimization, are also presented. We believe it is of significance that presented clear physical image of interpretable deep neural networks, which makes it be possible for applying to analog computing device design, and pave the road to physical artificial intelligence. [/quote]

    p.s. Nobody claims fully developed conscious AI. But neither is a human baby.
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Explain to me what it means for a differential equation to be self-referential. I think you're just making shit up as you go along.
    You googled that article up after reading my objections, not before, didn't you? Who do you think you're fooling?
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2024
    exchemist likes this.
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Naah... I have mentioned and debated the universality of "differential equations" several times in the past.
    I believe I posted this or a similar article before. Did you miss it?

    And how did my original statement fool you? You asked me; "How?", and I provided proof of my assertion.
    Now you want to apply a "differential equation" in trying to prove me a fraud.
    Well, I am not going back in years of history and thousands of posts to prove you wrong.

    The term "differential equation" for once tells you exactly its function in all dynamic systems, including its self-referential nature.

    This is what happens when you don't trust my taste and judgment in deciding what may be of interest to this forum, which proudly displays several sub-forums for discussion of scientific subjects, but then censors the content based on some relatively minor issues.
  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    It looks as if self-reference/self-referential is becoming another of his obsessions cf. his new microtubule thread, which he has already self-hijacked onto the subject.
    Pinball1970 likes this.
  15. Pinball1970 Valued Senior Member

    Mathematicians do not speak like this, it is a nonsense term you have decided to churn out at every possible thread.
    If you want to understand Calculus then get a high school book out on it.
    It will not say, "relational," or "self referential," anywhere.
    It will mention, limits, rates of change, Maxima and minima.

    You have just had a ban so TRY and learn from it. You are polluting threads.
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    But why are you assuming we are talking about calculus?

    I did not use the term self-reference in context of mathematics.

    This is what I am talking about.

    Self-Reference and A General Theory of Intelligence
    Jun 27, 2020

    The complexity we find in the universe is a consequence of self-referential systems. Undecidability as observed in Turing machines, formal systems, and cellular automata arises due to self-referential systems.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    more... https://medium.com/intuitionmachine/self-reference-and-a-general-theory-of-intelligence-4344d97cd00f

    I'd like to hear some comments on this.
  17. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

    Pinball1970 likes this.
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member


    This is you in post #21, above:
    It seems that was your "answer" to the question I asked you: "how does human thinking work, in your opinion?"

    And this is you in post #26:
    In what context are differential equations not mathematics?

    Really, this is ridiculous. You can't even keep your story straight over the course of less than a page of posts.

    What's the matter with you, man? Why can't you focus?

    Also, all of this is now way off the original thread topic, which was about maths and Chat GPT.
    I have two comments:
    1. This is a new topic, not the one that the is the subject of this thread.
    2. This is a new claim you are making, so far completely without explanation or justification. You need to provide evidence or argument in support of your thesis (in a different thread).
  19. Pinball1970 Valued Senior Member

    What do you think calculus is? What do you think differentiation is?

    Differentiation is about rates of change and partial differentiation is about the change in one variable whilst the others remain constant.

    As always you cannot explain mathematics in words you have to do the actual work.

    In my book that I have on me now, that is chapter 18 of a 400 page text book, for beginners.

    I would say good for A level students (age 16-18) and a handy go to for first year uni (18 years)

    I certainly did not cover partial differential equations at A level, so there is some further maths in there for the more advanced, 16-18 year old student.
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    My question is why you are comparing AI with human intelligence at this early stage of evolutionary processes in now autonomously learning AI that has access to the entire open internet. (including many false human originated facts and speculations).

    The problem is that you are comparing it to evolved human intelligence. Even if that is the only type of intelligence there is, then our use of models using known human thought processes, might lead to a better understanding of cellular intelligence and memory and a possibly associated emergent consciousness in non-biological complex data processing.
    This is what I am exploring and hopefully discussing without the prejudicial ad hominem.
    Hey,I am advocating Tegmark's mathematical universe. All dynamics are based on "differential equations".
    A differential equation is causal to dynamical action in an attempt to find balance and equity.
    Read more... https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/feduc.2023.1099480/full
    Yes, the fundamental functions that involve dynamic "change".

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    Schematic depiction of a function described metaphorically as a "machine" or "black box" that for each input yields a corresponding output

    And IMO, it is the dynamic change occurring during the data processing in our brains that gives rise to an emergent internal awareness of this process.
    It's not the data that is experienced, it's the change in a self-referential system that can be measured and quantified as "thought".
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Moreover, even a simple ping pong program can solve a game's "problem", given enough time.

    Open @ 2:00 for program "finding a solution" to the object of the game.

    It's a beautiful example. The impact of AlphaGo AI going against Lee Sedol, the 7x world champion Go player is revealed by the reaction of Lee Sedol who had started as the prohibitive favorite against a "programmmed" computer and completely underestimating the emergent qualities of self-learning AI systems, that can test themselves and improve (evolve) over time.

    After rudimentary exposure to the game, AlphaGo taught by playing against itself several millions of games, simultaneously learning both offensive and defensive strategies.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2024
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    You did not answer the questions that Pinball1970 asked you. In fact, nothing in your post addresses those questions.
    That is pure drivel. Meaningless word salad.

    A differential equation isn't "causal" to anything.
    "Dynamical action" is a term you just made up.
    "balance" is undefined by you in this context and hopelessly vague.
    "equity" is a completely irrelevant attempt to distract.
    Why have you not read that article, despite citing in on several occasions?

    Or did you read it and fail to take anything away from it?
    Nobody cares. Your opinions on what happens during data processing in the human brain are completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread. Also, there is no "internal awareness" of the process, whatever it might be.
    Pure world salad. Useless.
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    TY..at least it is not labeled "off-topic" and accumulating gratuitous "demerits".

    If I reply that what you just wrote in reply to my post is pure drivel and meaningless word salad, where does that lead us?
    I have told you before that any "drivel" you do not understand is open to challenge and explanation, but you leave no room for DISCUSSION on the merits, because of semantics.
    You cannot see your contradiction in that question?
    I have not only cited it, I quoted it. Would that suggest I read it?
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2024

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