Worship

[lightgigantic]

A communicator needs only an audience.

And lo and behold, a particular audience has particular needs, interests and concerns that spell out where the parameters of communication lie.

What is potentially perilous about being human.

our characteristics, namely imperfect senses, cheating propensity, tendency to fall in illusion, etc

Mortality and health are a given.

given by what?
our desire?

I am not criticizing God, no one knows if there is one.

And how do you know that?

 

[glaucon]

lol

Take it easy on him LG... he's new...

 

[TheShadow]

I know God does not exist for me because he has never spoken to me while I read of many who say he speaks to them. I believe we are mortal, don't you? I believe our health is something most of us have problems with. At least I do. Don't you? Do you actually know someone that knows there is a God? Belief is another matter. Do you have some opinion to share?

 

[lightgigantic]

I know God does not exist for me because he has never spoken to me while I read of many who say he speaks to them.

What requirement does god have to speak with you in order to exist?

I believe we are mortal, don't you?

The body perishes, sure.

I believe our health is something most of us have problems with. At least I do. Don't you?

My q was why do you accept that such a state as a given?
Do you want it?
Or do you accept that desire is practically limited in its application?

Do you actually know someone that knows there is a God?

sure, but my point was there is a big difference between saying "i don't know god" and "no one knows god".

Belief is another matter.

and (unreasonable) doubt, something else again

Do you have some opinion to share?

In short, I don't think its practicable for you to use your experience as a yardstick for governing the extent of the experiences of others in all times and places.

 

[lightgigantic]

Trolls need to get a life.

I'm just trying to help you form a coherent argument.

 

[glaucon]

Trolls need to get a life.

Shadow,

I advise you to read the Site Rules and Regulations.

You cannot just toss out accusations like this.

You're new, so I'll give you some slack for now.
Ordinarily, you would receive a warning for this.

LG is simply trying to help you.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Generosity is sentient beings can have.

I didn't ask to be here, though I am glad that I am.

I appreciate existing and all but feel no obligation to "worship" a god damned thing, period.

I think it's basically retarded to associate the notion of "generosity" with "Universe". Generosity is a human term that doesn't apply to a self-regulated, unwillful system like "Universe".

Hey Wes Nice to see ya.

• Do you perform sacrifces for your own benfit.
• Do you not hold the 4d space you occupy in high esteem?
• Do you not treasure the sanctity of your mind and body?

The worship you speak of is could be essentially the existentialisation of your self worship could it not?

[apologies if I have repeated someone elses point as I haven't had the time to read the entore thread ........yet.]

 

[wesmorris]

Hey Wes Nice to see ya.

Word, same.

• Do you perform sacrifces for your own benfit.
• Do you not hold the 4d space you occupy in high esteem?
• Do you not treasure the sanctity of your mind and body?

1) No ritualistic sacrifices of which I'm conscious, no. - in the sense that something is sacrificed with every choice that's made, yes... but I don't think that's relevant.

2) I don't hold it in particularly high esteem, no. - from a survival sense as in "if i percieve mortal danger do I avoid it?", yes... but I don't think that's particuarly "high esteem". I see myself as an easily amused, language slinging ape. (complicated apes we are, yar)

3) Sanctity? No, don't have that as far as I can see. Not sure what it means. Sure I take a shower most days, but I really don't primp much if that helps.

The worship you speak of is could be essentially the existentialisation of your self worship could it not?

I still don't see my self worship unless you think "the more discomfort I'm in the more effort I'd put towards relieving it" is worship.

Seems like someone's (or however many people I suppose) is projecting...

 

[Quantum Quack]

When you feel like debating it seriously let me know ok...till then....

 

[wesmorris]

QQ, believe it or don't that was my honest response and still seems appropriate and relevant when I re-read.

I don't see "self worship" in myself, so I don't see what there is to "existentialize".

Further, generally when people assign qualities to others that don't apply - they're projecting facets of themselves... hence my comment. Nothing personal.

Put a mirror in my blind spot if you think I'm missing something.

Is self-worship to be expected of all the complicated apes that don't worship some other facet of themselves like their image of "god"?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Further, generally when people assign qualities to others that don't apply - they're projecting facets of themselves... hence my comment. Nothing personal.

Put a mirror in my blind spot if you think I'm missing something.

exactly!
the ideal of worship is in fact our projection of self worship on to a nonexistant or unprovable or "doesn't apply" object or entity external to ourselves. Psychology 101. IMO.

So if one wants to find the reality of worship one only has to look at how we worship ourselves. Selfish self interest and self centredness. Then notice how we project that onto a figment or real entity as an image of our own self worship. Maybe a form of reflected vanity in action.....eh?

Afterall the length and effort that people go to, to serve their own vested self interests is virtualy absolute is it not....?
That's the contention any ways...and yes you got it the first time and also yes, nothing personal taken.

 

[wesmorris]

strange when things are obvious and foreign simultaneously.

 

[Quantum Quack]

strange when things are obvious and foreign simultaneously.

it is isn't it?.
How we can state the obvious as an arguement against it, then on reflection or in hindsight see how we answered our own question with our own conditioning.

Like a "Freudian slip" or a "pseudo deliberate mistake" as we stumble on to something that needs to be expressed from with in but our "blinkers" wont let it.
Yes it is indeed strange...

I find when I am prepared to retort assertively [ sometimes aggressively ] that is when I have a solution about to be "inversely" applied.
So I normally take my "assertive" retort and analyse it before posting as my "mild intolerance" of alternative opinion is trying to tell me something more than it is trying to tell the other.

The issue of worship seems to me to be a projection of self worship as a reflection possibly of ideals, including wishful thinking and other aspects onto an external reality.

Seems obvious to me...but I accept that it may not be to others caught up in their own machinations.
And as the world moves or evolves to a more pantheistic approach to "religion" [ athiesim, agnotism etc etc ] we find the act of worship becomes more self focussed rather than external. The birth of individualism [ existentialism - traditional definition ~ J.P. Satre] and strong sense of self identity. IMO

 

[Thoreau]

Honestly, what the crap is with worship?

I was stumbling on the net and ran across this:

http://www.stumbleupon.com/s/#3gISJM/www.doctorhugo.org/gandhi.html/

"Seven Blunders of the World"

1. Wealth without work

2. Pleasure without conscience

3. Knowledge without character

4. Commerce without morality

5. Science without humanity

6. Worship without sacrifice

7. Politics without principle

—Mahatma Gandhi

Which seemed pretty sensible and in line with some of my own thoughts but on scanning it a few times, point 6 stood out.

Why worship at all?

Honestly the notion of worship disgusts me. I think it denigrates both the object of worship and more, the person doing the worship.

I kind of get it, but only from an analytical perspective like "it's an emotional need" of many people, that comes from "cultural inheritance", basically - though I suspect that it's just a phenomenon of humanity in general. By that I mean, that even today "some are just born with it".

Perhaps it's just something to fill an emotional void in people but people with this void seem... well, sort of pathetic to me. I don't mean that in a cruel sense but more like something to pity, which is sort of cruel itself I suppose. Meh.

The thing is people are what they are and fuck if there's much to do about it, so I suppose even opening a conversation on it is utterly moot besides entertainment value. Perhaps there's something to be learned, but I can't see it yet.

I really loath the notion of worship. It sincerely grosses me out.

I'm not quite getting the point here. Is the question 'Why do people worship'? If so, here is my response:

"Worship" can come in many forms, and not just religious. You can worship things without even making a concious effort. In regards to religion, people worship one deity or another because that is what they are instructed to do.

Just to recount a few verses from memory in the Bible that refer to the subject....

John 4:24 - "God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

Psalm 149:1 - "Praise ye the Lord. Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints."

There are many many other passages in the Bible that call for worship (sorry I can't remember more at the moment).

For many religions, worship is a requirement for eternal salvation.

:shrug:

 

[wesmorris]

exactly!
the ideal of worship is in fact our projection of self worship on to a nonexistant or unprovable or "doesn't apply" object or entity external to ourselves. Psychology 101. IMO.

I haven't applied my mind in a particular direction for a while. All my game servers are down so I thought I'd check sci because it's been a long time.

In re-reading this I find it to actually be null because it presumes to legitimize the notion of worship in responding to the basic theme "is it a legitimate (or perhaps, necessary) notion".

Oh and "hi all".

 

[wesmorris]

There are many many other passages in the Bible that call for worship (sorry I can't remember more at the moment).

Why care?

I call for you to worship my cock.

Should you care?

Okay wait no I should put it in parchment and tell you I'm some sort of super smart guy who speaks to invisible stuff.

Then would you care?

The bible is retarded bro.

As are all religious texts to me, in the sense that they are somehow elevated from other written words.

It's your duty as a sciforian to worship what I've said because I'm old school.

DO IT.

Lol.

Man it's all just emotionally based tools for social adaptation.

It's nonsense, yet psychologically powerful. Sweet if you're a pimp.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

I thank all thats needed to feel the need to Worship is healthy doses of som or all of the followin:::

Ignerence... Insanity... stockholm-syndrome... fear an stoopidstition.!!!


A-Man.TTT