World At War-Battlefront Levant: "Gaza Is Burning"

[Killjoy]

Looks like the Sons of David have begun their final push to obliterate Hamas, sports fans - once again crushing, killing and destroying anyone and anything that gets in their way...

Israel’s military begins its ground offensive in Gaza City and thousands of residents flee

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel launched its offensive in Gaza City on Tuesday, threatening to overwhelm a city already in ruins from nearly two years of raids and bombardment. Vehicles strapped with mattresses and other belongings clogged a coastal road as thousands of Palestinians fled, but hundreds of thousands more remain.

The operation into the largest Palestinian city further escalates a conflict that has roiled the Middle East and likely pushes any ceasefire farther out of reach. The military wouldn’t offer a timeline for the offensive, which it says aims to “destroy Hamas’ military infrastructure,” but Israeli media suggested it could take months.

...

Israeli Defense Minister Israel Katz declared that “Gaza is burning” as the operation began. Heavy bombardment battered the city overnight and into the morning.

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One woman, Saud al-Sakani, said her daughter, son-in-law and their children were killed in a strike that flattened their home with about 40 people inside. “An entire family!” she cried, weeping over their bodies at Shifa Hospital’s morgue. “Many are still under the rubble.”

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The official said the Israeli military believes there are approximately 2,000 to 3,000 Hamas militants left in Gaza City, as well as tunnels used by the militant group. Hamas’ military capabilities have been vastly diminished over nearly two years of war, and nowadays it mainly carries out guerrilla-style attacks, with small groups of fighters planting explosives or attacking military outposts before melting away.

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An estimated 1 million Palestinians were living in the Gaza City region before warnings to evacuate began ahead of the offensive, and the Israeli military estimates 350,000 people have left the city.

A U.N. estimate on Monday, however, said that over 220,000 Palestinians have fled northern Gaza over the past month.

By the end of the current operation, an Israeli military graphic suggested its troops hope to control all of the Gaza Strip except for a large swath along the coast.

 

[TheVat]

Watch out, Bosnian butcher Ratko Mladic, Bibi is going to edge you aside in his seeming quest to be atop the list of vilest war criminals of the past fifty years. This is the new master of ethnic cleansing.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

Watch out, Bosnian butcher Ratko Mladic, Bibi is going to edge you aside in his seeming quest to be atop the list of vilest war criminals of the past fifty years. This is the new master of ethnic cleansing.

Think about Jewish and Israeli history.
Abuse a child, get a monster.
Also, if a group of savages attacked, killed, and took hostage members of your family, would you feel any different. Would you give a damn about collateral damage.

 

[Killjoy]

Think about Jewish and Israeli history.
Abuse a child, get a monster.

They've been fighting wars for the existence of their nation since before it was a nation. It's almost as though they know no other way.
I remember thinking as I watched the news stories about the Hamas attack, that this was going to end badly for Gaza. Now I look at the images of the destruction astounded that the Israelis managed to annihilate so much with nothing but fighter-bombers and artillery.
Madness...

Also, if a group of savages attacked, killed, and took hostage members of your family, would you feel any different. Would you give a damn about collateral damage.

I suppose on some level it's the same sort of "logic" applied by the Allies when they bombed Axis cities. It certainly gave no one pause when the plan to effectively incinerate one Japanese city after another was devised.

 

[Killjoy]

Watch out, Bosnian butcher Ratko Mladic, Bibi is going to edge you aside in his seeming quest to be atop the list of vilest war criminals of the past fifty years. This is the new master of ethnic cleansing.

I wonder what he imagines the aftermath is going to be like. He keeps saying Israel has no intention of permanently occupying Gaza.
Can he really believe tRump is going to build this “Riviera of the Middle East” ?

 

[TheVat]

Think about Jewish and Israeli history.
Abuse a child, get a monster.
Also, if a group of savages attacked, killed, and took hostage members of your family, would you feel any different. Would you give a damn about collateral damage.

I would care about collateral damage, when it's a syrupy euphemism for killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians and their children and reducing the home of two million people into a rubble heap. Why would I want to see what happened to my family happen to others? Like most of the world, I believe in a proportionate response. That is not what happened in Gaza - and I acknowledge that is the fault of both Hamas and the militaristic Likud coalition.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

They've been fighting wars for the existence of their nation since before it was a nation. It's almost as though they know no other way.
I remember thinking as I watched the news stories about the Hamas attack, that this was going to end badly for Gaza. Now I look at the images of the destruction astounded that the Israelis managed to annihilate so much with nothing but fighter-bombers and artillery.
Madness...

I see you have no real knowledge of Israel since 1948 or Jewish history over the last 3000+ years. OK, so be it.

I suppose on some level it's the same sort of "logic" applied by the Allies when they bombed Axis cities. It certainly gave no one pause when the plan to effectively incinerate one Japanese city after another was devised.

It won the war and lessened allied casualties. You must understand that the only real rule of war us WIN. All else is strategy and tactics. Win first, rebuild ing and 'hearts and minds' can come later. The West has forgotten this. A large part of the rest of the world hasn't

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

I would care about collateral damage, when it's a syrupy euphemism for killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians and their children and reducing the home of two million people into a rubble heap. Why would I want to see what happened to my family happen to others? Like most of the world, I believe in a proportionate response. That is not what happened in Gaza - and I acknowledge that is the fault of both Hamas and the militaristic Likud coalition.

Do you think Dresden and Hiroshima were proportional? They helped win the war.
The hell with proportional responses. If you attacked me and my family or others I care about, I would go after you with every weapon I could get my hands on including WMD.

 

[Sarkus]

Do you think Dresden and Hiroshima were proportional? They helped win the war.

Wrong on the first, and the latter is somewhat less obvious than you might think.

Bombing Dresden had minimal military value. The war was nearly won, and would have been won in the same timeframe had Dresden not been bombed. It remains one of the most controversial actions by the Allies during the war, and for good reasons. 20-25,000 civilians were killed. Nothing militarily significant came out of it.

Hiroshima was bombed ostensibly to "save" 100s of thousands who might have died had the Allies had to invade the larger Japanese islands. But in reality Japan was already defeated. Russia entered the war against them 2 days later (and the day before Nagasaki was bombed) and invaded their lands in Manchuria, and the Japanese saw then that surrender to the Western Allies would be much more preferable than to the Russians.

So "helped win the war" is debatable. It's certainly the traditional justification, but there's a good argument that Russia's invasion was more decisive in hastening the end.

The hell with proportional responses. If you attacked me and my family or others I care about, I would go after you with every weapon I could get my hands on including WMD.

And that is why it is fair to say that you are not a good person.

 

[TheVat]

You must understand that the only real rule of war us WIN.

Pity the poor Geneva Convention that didn't come up with your simple rule.

 

[TheVat]

would go after you with every weapon I could get my hands on including WMD

Now you're just lashing out like an angry troll. Click.

 

[Killjoy]

I see you have no real knowledge of Israel since 1948 or Jewish history over the last 3000+ years. OK, so be it.

I played a game called Arab-Israeli Wars a bunch of times when I was a teenager. Does that count ?

I can tell you this - Syrian Panzer IVs ain't no damn good vs. I-Shermans !

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

Pity the poor Geneva Convention that didn't come up with your simple rule.

If that's not the only rule, then don't go to war for you will probably lose. It doesn't guarantee a win, but it's absence almost always guarantees a loss against anyone who understands it.

To quote another, the Geneva BS is for "mere cowards, who do not fight, but play".

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

Now you're just lashing out like an angry troll. Click.

No, I am telling you exactly what I would do if I could. The fact that I can't now does not change the fact that I would if I could.

They that let evil exist when they can destroy and obliterate it are complicit in any further evil.

 

[James R]

They that let evil exist when they can destroy and obliterate it are complicit in any further evil.

Palestinian civilians are just people, no more or less evil than anybody else.

Your hateful rhetoric makes you a bad person. Try to do better.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

Palestinian civilians are just people, no more or less evil than anybody else.

Your hateful rhetoric makes you a bad person. Try to do better.

There is nothing hateful in what I say, just reality. I don't hate them. But if collateral damage is necessary to obliterate Hamas, so be it.

You all say different, but if you and your family were on the front line, you would do the same thing.

 

[James R]

But if collateral damage is necessary to obliterate Hamas, so be it.

Israel can't obliterate Hamas. Hamas is an idea. It's also funded by Iran.

I don't know whether Israel's current leadership is crazy enough to start a general war with much of the rest of the Middle East in a futile attempt to "obliterate Hamas". Maybe they are. If they do, it won't end well for anybody in the Middle East.

You all say different, but if you and your family were on the front line, you would do the same thing.

Are you telling us that your family is on the "front line"?

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

Israel can't obliterate Hamas. Hamas is an idea. It's also funded by Iran.

Sure can obliterate the present manifestation of that hateful idea.

I don't know whether Israel's current leadership is crazy enough to start a general war with much of the rest of the Middle East in a futile attempt to "obliterate Hamas". Maybe they are. If they do, it won't end well for anybody in the Middle East.

The rest of the Middle East is not going to war for Hamas. They will saver rattle and sanction at best.

Are you telling us that your family is on the "front line"?

No, it was an if statement.

 

[James R]

Sure can obliterate the present manifestation of that hateful idea.

No. They really can't.

Also, the 65,000 Palestinian civilians killed by Israel so far cannot be justified as acceptable collateral damage to kill a few low-level Hamas soldiers (or even a few high-level Hamas leaders).

The rest of the Middle East is not going to war for Hamas.

If Israel continues to attack other nations, like it did in Qatar, using the "justification" that it was to kill some Hamas guys that Israel wants dead, then those countries won't be going to war for Hamas. They will be going to war as a matter of self-defence.

They will saver rattle and sanction at best.

It's "sabre". A sabre is a type of sword.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

No. They really can't.

They can kill enough to make them quite impotent.

Also, the 65,000 Palestinian civilians killed by Israel so far cannot be justified as acceptable collateral damage to kill a few low-level Hamas soldiers (or even a few high-level Hamas leaders).

After Oct 7 it is.

If Israel continues to attack other nations, like it did in Qatar, using the "justification" that it was to kill some Hamas guys that Israel wants dead, then those countries won't be going to war for Hamas. They will be going to war as a matter of self-defence.

If they don't want to be attacked, don't harbor people like Hamas.

It's "sabre". A sabre is a type of sword.

It is also saber. I just hit the wrong key and didn't notice.