----
Second, there are sincere apologists who, by trying to test the arguments for themselves (rather in the spirit of Luke 14:28-31, one might add), have unwittingly accustomed themselves to weighing arguments, not simply accepting things on faith. Having learned to take the unbeliever's side for the sake of argument (becoming one's own intellectual sparring partner), simple faith is no longer as easy as it once was. Doubt becomes a familiar habit, however miserable it makes one. Sooner or later the honest apologist winds up looking back nostalgically to the days of childlike naivete before he got into apologetics and apologetics made everything more complicated! He may realize the irony of his position: he has learned strategies for promoting saving faith, "simple faith," which however, have made it less and less possible for him to rest easy in such faith.
Worse yet, the longer one scrutinizes the apologetical arguments, the more one tests their merit in actual debate, the more holes one is brought inevitably to see. And, unless one feels able to descend to a level of complete cynicism in the interests of promoting faith (!), one simply cannot maintain one's own faith any longer. If, as you used to tell unbelievers, they ought to believe Christianity only insofar as it makes sense to do so, you realize the jig is up once it no longer makes sense to you. It is too late to fall for the old saw that "the foolishness of God is wiser than men."
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http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/robert_price/son.html
Comments
I am the Christian depicted in the quote. I can no longer honestly defend my faith and relinquish my all so glorious title, Defender of the Faith. After an objective inspection of the Bible, I can simply find no reason to believe either in it's historicity or theological claims. I can not in good faith deny my ability to reason and continue to believe in what other people have told me to believe. I have heard only one side of the story for all my life, so long so that I even spewed much of that garbage on these forums and was puzzled when I was ridiculed for my beliefs. At first, ignorantly believing that these disbelievers were simply minions of Satan, sent to rob me of my faith, I squeezed my advise to their objective counsel and assured myself that I would rather trust in God than in man. Despite my fervent efforts to disprove any arguments against my beloved Christ, I fatigued myself and sought to find out just why the heathen
were so equally ardent in their denouncement of Jesus when all I saw when I opened the Bible was unparalleled truth and majesty.
There was a day when I borrowed some anti-Christian books and took them to Church to show my teachers. They rebuked me for taking these "heretical" writings and asked me whether or not I was having "doubts". As you all must know, having doubts in Christian circles about the faith is a definite no-no. Not only will the rest of the pack swoop down on your neck with pitying words for not believing but they might even (as has happened to me) threaten banishment from the Church for not believing what the majority believes.
The reason I say this with a heavy heart is because somewhere deep inside of me, I hope earnestly that my findings are wrong and that I will find solace in God. I have prayed dearly for some sort of revelation that would boost my faith and open my eyes to what are some obvious, irrefutable contradictions in the Bible. There is no question that the writers of the Bible thought that the Lord would return during their lifetime but He did not and has not. Two thousand years and all we have to show is persecution, strife and disagreement towards "fellow" Christians. The doctrines one must follow to be called a Christian have changed so often that I am sure that even by having entertained doubting thoughts, I disqualified my salvation.
The feeling of emptiness that lies within me as I realize I have nothing to live for and basically nothing to do in the religion foum scares me. I cling innocently to the last strands of hope fearing that if I severe ties altogether, I may be cast into hell fire for all eternity. So this is what it has come to. §outh§tar's beliefs are now based on fears of eternal wrath from a God he can no longer believe in with a clear conscience. The saddening part is that I cannot bear to even tell my Christian friends and especially my mother that I have removed myself from the faith, for fear of embarassment, shame and the way they will treat me. What I find even more saddening is that they will not listen to what I say despite how clearly I convey it to them, they are zealous fundamentalists, even as I was. Even if I wanted to be a Christian (I would rather than not, we have holidays ) I can not, for despite my most passioned attempts to reconcile the contradictions and disagreements and dismiss the glaring truth that I have been brainwashed to not question and to obey like a "sheep", I simply cannot defend the Bible and Christianity without playing word games and carefully constructing unsound doctrine.
This is my message to all Christians, especially those who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible:
Believe not what you read from other Christians without testing it first for yourself. Do not think that you are right and that everyone else is simply misguided or (as I at times thought) demon possessed. (Might I mention, the demons of the Bible can not be true, even if they do exist.) PLEASE, DO SOME THINKING ON YOUR OWN. SEE BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT. I BEG YOU.
If Christians never read atheist books and they never read Buddhist, Muslim and other religious books, how can they ever think they have the truth? The ostrich whick hides in the sand all it's days soon finds that all other bird have sprouted wings.
And also a question to atheists in particular, to whom I have now joined ranks..:
What meaning do you have in life? I formerly believed myself to be pleasing God and furthering His kingdom (all part of the Christian jargon) and that I would one day be rewarded for all eternity. I find that there really is no reason for me to live either a moral or immoral life but my Christian upbringing has pretty much ensured that I will never become a drunkard or be smoking port or banging pretty girls after ten... What reasons do you give for living moral lives? What solace and comfort do you have for life and what joy do you have in death? What then do you devote your lives to if not for a "higher purpose and calling"?
Second, there are sincere apologists who, by trying to test the arguments for themselves (rather in the spirit of Luke 14:28-31, one might add), have unwittingly accustomed themselves to weighing arguments, not simply accepting things on faith. Having learned to take the unbeliever's side for the sake of argument (becoming one's own intellectual sparring partner), simple faith is no longer as easy as it once was. Doubt becomes a familiar habit, however miserable it makes one. Sooner or later the honest apologist winds up looking back nostalgically to the days of childlike naivete before he got into apologetics and apologetics made everything more complicated! He may realize the irony of his position: he has learned strategies for promoting saving faith, "simple faith," which however, have made it less and less possible for him to rest easy in such faith.
Worse yet, the longer one scrutinizes the apologetical arguments, the more one tests their merit in actual debate, the more holes one is brought inevitably to see. And, unless one feels able to descend to a level of complete cynicism in the interests of promoting faith (!), one simply cannot maintain one's own faith any longer. If, as you used to tell unbelievers, they ought to believe Christianity only insofar as it makes sense to do so, you realize the jig is up once it no longer makes sense to you. It is too late to fall for the old saw that "the foolishness of God is wiser than men."
-----
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/robert_price/son.html
Comments
I am the Christian depicted in the quote. I can no longer honestly defend my faith and relinquish my all so glorious title, Defender of the Faith. After an objective inspection of the Bible, I can simply find no reason to believe either in it's historicity or theological claims. I can not in good faith deny my ability to reason and continue to believe in what other people have told me to believe. I have heard only one side of the story for all my life, so long so that I even spewed much of that garbage on these forums and was puzzled when I was ridiculed for my beliefs. At first, ignorantly believing that these disbelievers were simply minions of Satan, sent to rob me of my faith, I squeezed my advise to their objective counsel and assured myself that I would rather trust in God than in man. Despite my fervent efforts to disprove any arguments against my beloved Christ, I fatigued myself and sought to find out just why the heathen
were so equally ardent in their denouncement of Jesus when all I saw when I opened the Bible was unparalleled truth and majesty.There was a day when I borrowed some anti-Christian books and took them to Church to show my teachers. They rebuked me for taking these "heretical" writings and asked me whether or not I was having "doubts". As you all must know, having doubts in Christian circles about the faith is a definite no-no. Not only will the rest of the pack swoop down on your neck with pitying words for not believing but they might even (as has happened to me) threaten banishment from the Church for not believing what the majority believes.
The reason I say this with a heavy heart is because somewhere deep inside of me, I hope earnestly that my findings are wrong and that I will find solace in God. I have prayed dearly for some sort of revelation that would boost my faith and open my eyes to what are some obvious, irrefutable contradictions in the Bible. There is no question that the writers of the Bible thought that the Lord would return during their lifetime but He did not and has not. Two thousand years and all we have to show is persecution, strife and disagreement towards "fellow" Christians. The doctrines one must follow to be called a Christian have changed so often that I am sure that even by having entertained doubting thoughts, I disqualified my salvation.
The feeling of emptiness that lies within me as I realize I have nothing to live for and basically nothing to do in the religion foum scares me. I cling innocently to the last strands of hope fearing that if I severe ties altogether, I may be cast into hell fire for all eternity. So this is what it has come to. §outh§tar's beliefs are now based on fears of eternal wrath from a God he can no longer believe in with a clear conscience. The saddening part is that I cannot bear to even tell my Christian friends and especially my mother that I have removed myself from the faith, for fear of embarassment, shame and the way they will treat me. What I find even more saddening is that they will not listen to what I say despite how clearly I convey it to them, they are zealous fundamentalists, even as I was. Even if I wanted to be a Christian (I would rather than not, we have holidays
) I can not, for despite my most passioned attempts to reconcile the contradictions and disagreements and dismiss the glaring truth that I have been brainwashed to not question and to obey like a "sheep", I simply cannot defend the Bible and Christianity without playing word games and carefully constructing unsound doctrine.This is my message to all Christians, especially those who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible:
Believe not what you read from other Christians without testing it first for yourself. Do not think that you are right and that everyone else is simply misguided or (as I at times thought) demon possessed. (Might I mention, the demons of the Bible can not be true, even if they do exist.) PLEASE, DO SOME THINKING ON YOUR OWN. SEE BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT. I BEG YOU.
If Christians never read atheist books and they never read Buddhist, Muslim and other religious books, how can they ever think they have the truth? The ostrich whick hides in the sand all it's days soon finds that all other bird have sprouted wings.
And also a question to atheists in particular, to whom I have now joined ranks..:
What meaning do you have in life? I formerly believed myself to be pleasing God and furthering His kingdom (all part of the Christian jargon) and that I would one day be rewarded for all eternity. I find that there really is no reason for me to live either a moral or immoral life but my Christian upbringing has pretty much ensured that I will never become a drunkard or be smoking port or banging pretty girls after ten... What reasons do you give for living moral lives? What solace and comfort do you have for life and what joy do you have in death? What then do you devote your lives to if not for a "higher purpose and calling"?