Will Religion or god(s) be the down fall of Humanity ?

[Saturnine Pariah]

I'm paying for cable TV and internet access. I still don't understand your point. I can also meditate which doesn't cost anything, but I can still have good communication. If I choose to support my church, why is that a problem?

You are indirectly paying another person to interpret a book of illogical superstition, what the hell do you think a preacher is? All they are highly revered salesmen. He or she is telling you what to think or feel about archaic verses and saying that for a small fee or "church donation" and portion of your time that your "soul" will be saved. They are interpreting a book you could just as easily interpret for yourself for you in exchange for your obedience and monetary donation. Religion like anything else in a materialistic or capitalistic society is all about selling you an idea to comfort your ignorance. It's a successful business albeit detrimental model really. Take a look around, religion makes bank and "God" needs Money!

Joe:" I don't know what will happen me after i die and that frightens me."
*enter a preacher*
Preacher:"Oh don't worry Joe if you believe what i and what this book says *insert belief(s) here* then you'll go to a wonderful afterlife."
Joe: "Wow, that makes me feel so much secure and better! How can thank you sir?"
Preacher: " Oh my child just come to Church on *insert day here* every week for an hour or two and donate some money so i can tell you what i think this allegorical ancient book means."
Joe : " But i thought *insert deity here of aforementioned belief(s)* didn't need money and why do i need you to tell me how to read the same book?"
Preacher: " For that money is for spreading the word of *insert deity here* and i was ordained by a group of holy men wiser than myself. Besides it's not like were going to spend the money in a binge of hypocrisy, forceful conversions, holy wars, discrimination and self gratification by exploiting the old, young and insecure, we are religion of love, tolerance and peace after all!"
Joe:
Which also begs the question ,why would a powerful deity only be restricted to communication with it's creation through a ancient book?

[video=youtube;rSyC8HgkvB8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSyC8HgkvB8[/video]

 

[Mazulu]

You are indirectly paying another person to interpret a book of illogical superstition, what hell do you think a preacher is? All they are highly revered salesmen. He or she is telling you what to think or feel about archaic verses and saying that for a small fee or "church donation" and portion of your time that your "soul" will be saved. They are interpreting a book you could just as easily interpret for yourself for you in exchange for your obedience and monetary donation. Religion like anything else in a materialistic or capitalistic society is all about selling you an idea to comfort your ignorance. It's a successful business albeit detrimental model really. Take a look around, religion makes bank and "God" needs Money!

Joe:" I don't know what will happen me after i die and that frightens me."
*enter a preacher*
Preacher:"Oh don't worry Joe if you believe what i and what this book says *insert belief(s) here* then you'll go to a wonderful afterlife."
Joe: "Wow, that makes me feel so much secure and better! How can thank you sir?"
Preacher: " Oh my child just come to Church on *insert day here* every week for an hour or two and donate some money so i can tell you what i think this allegorical ancient book means."
Joe : " But i thought *insert deity here of aforementioned belief(s)* didn't need money and why do i need you to tell me how to read the same book?"
Preacher: " For that money is for spreading the word of *insert deity here* and i was ordained by a group of holy men wiser than myself. Besides it's not like were going to spend the money in a binge of hypocrisy, forceful conversions, holy wars, discrimination and self gratification by exploiting the old, young and insecure, we are religion of love, tolerance and peace after all!"
Joe:
Which also begs the question ,why would a powerful deity only be restricted to communication with it's creation through a ancient book?

[video=youtube;rSyC8HgkvB8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSyC8HgkvB8[/video]

So aside from whatever God or spirituality realities might exist, let's set that aside for the moment. Life is soul crushingly hard for a majority of human beings. Your point of view is that if, as you believe, those human beings start to imagine that there might be purpose in their lives, hope, an afterlife, a God that loves them, your point of view is that you think that such hope should be destroyed because reality facing reality makes us better. True or not true, that is still cruel and heartless.

You want to kill hope. What kind of an evil f**king monster are you!

 

[Seattle]

I'm paying for cable TV and internet access. I still don't understand your point. I can also meditate which doesn't cost anything, but I can still have good communication. If I choose to support my church, why is that a problem?

It's not a problem. It's why people are seeing/talking to God's rather than unicorns.

 

[Seattle]

So aside from whatever God or spirituality realities might exist, let's set that aside for the moment. Life is soul crushingly hard for a majority of human beings. Your point of view is that if, as you believe, those human beings start to imagine that there might be purpose in their lives, hope, an afterlife, a God that loves them, your point of view is that you think that such hope should be destroyed because reality facing reality makes us better. True or not true, that is still cruel and heartless.

You want to kill hope. What kind of an evil f**king monster are you!

Don't you know how to be civil?

 

[Mazulu]

It's not a problem. It's why people are seeing/talking to God's rather than unicorns.

So if I do go to church and have a spiritual experience, it's not because the spirit guides were there, it's because they brainwashed me.

But if I have a spiritual experience, but I haven't been to church in a while, it's not because I can find my spirit guides in meditation, it's because I'm delusional.

What a load of bull!

 

[Mazulu]

Don't you know how to be civil?

You're right, sorry. But you are trying to kill hope which does make you a monster. Does it not? Are you improving the quality of people's lives by tearing them away from what you perceive as just a security blanket? What happens when you tear people away from what they love? They get depressed and/or go insane. Your strategy is psychologically damaging to people.

 

[Seattle]

You're right, sorry. But you are trying to kill hope which does make you a monster. Does it not? Are you improving the quality of people's lives by tearing them away from what you perceive as just a security blanket? What happens when you tear people away from what they love? They get depressed and/or go insane. Your strategy is psychologically damaging to people.

I'm not the one you were calling a monster.

 

[(Q)]

So aside from whatever God or spirituality realities might exist, let's set that aside for the moment. Life is soul crushingly hard for a majority of human beings. Your point of view is that if, as you believe, those human beings start to imagine that there might be purpose in their lives, hope, an afterlife, a God that loves them, your point of view is that you think that such hope should be destroyed because reality facing reality makes us better. True or not true, that is still cruel and heartless.

:roflmao:

Resorting to myths and superstitions and wallowing in delusion because it feels good is not an answer to life's problems, quite the contrary. The idea is to face up to reality and find real life solutions to real life problems. It is well beyond stupidity to believe that after your dead, an invisible super being will pat you on the head and say everything's alright now.

That is why nothing ever gets accomplished, too many idiot believers causing conflict in the world and then saying death is the answer. Fucking morons.

 

[(Q)]

You're right, sorry. But you are trying to kill hope which does make you a monster. Does it not?

That is false hope, it is a lie. It is not killing hope, it is trying to find real hope and real answers and real solutions, not wishy washy crap.

Are you improving the quality of people's lives by tearing them away from what you perceive as just a security blanket?

Yes, absolutely. If we left it up to idiots like you, the world wouldn't last a decade.

 

[(Q)]

So if I do go to church and have a spiritual experience, it's not because the spirit guides were there, it's because they brainwashed me.

Yes, you are seriously brainwashed.

 

[Mazulu]

I'm not the one you were calling a monster.

Among all you atheists, there are a few who speak out very vocally and hatefully against the faithful. Why don't you tell them to be polite in their disagreement. Otherwise, I will assume that they speak for you.

 

[Seattle]

Among all you atheists, there are a few who speak out very vocally and hatefully against the faithful. Why don't you tell them to be polite in their disagreement. Otherwise, I will assume that they speak for you.

Atheists don't necessarily have anything in common other than not believing in one thing. I don't necessarily have anything in common with those you speak of.

Atheists aren't a group and I certainly can't tell anyone what to do (including you). I'm just commenting when you say something outrageous (which is probably why you do it).

Being rude doesn't help anyone's argument. It takes away from it. If I make a logical, intelligent point and end it with "fuck you" have I bolstered my point or detracted from it? Have I made myself seem more educated on that point or less?

 

[Mazulu]

Atheists don't necessarily have anything in common other than not believing in one thing. I don't necessarily have anything in common with those you speak of.

Atheists aren't a group and I certainly can't tell anyone what to do (including you). I'm just commenting when you say something outrageous (which is probably why you do it).

Being rude doesn't help anyone's argument. It takes away from it. If I make a logical, intelligent point and end it with "fuck you" have I bolstered my point or detracted from it? Have I made myself seem more educated on that point or less?

OK Seattle. You are the voice of reason. I will rebut Saturnine's argument in a more appropriate way. If there are people who faithfully believe in their God and are content to support it's churches, who am I to attack their beliefs with hate and hostility? They're not bothering me. They're not breaking the law or killing anyone. If they do break the law or kill people, then that's another matter.

 

[Seattle]

OK Seattle. You are the voice of reason. I will rebut Saturnine's argument in a more appropriate way. If there are people who faithfully believe in their God and are content to support it's churches, who am I to attack their beliefs with hate and hostility? They're not bothering me. They're not breaking the law or killing anyone. If they do break the law or kill people, then that's another matter.

If they do break the law or kill people...that's what we have cops for

 

[Saturnine Pariah]

So aside from whatever God or spirituality realities might exist, let's set that aside for the moment. Life is soul crushingly hard for a majority of human beings. Your point of view is that if, as you believe, those human beings start to imagine that there might be purpose in their lives, hope, an afterlife, a God that loves them, your point of view is that you think that such hope should be destroyed because reality facing reality makes us better. True or not true, that is still cruel and heartless.

Hope in itself is not a object of my scorn or disgust, it's the rampant extremist ideologies(religions) surrounding said hopes that concern me. The meaning of life is only defined by what makes it worth living to you. If i asked you whether you wanted to kill yourself and you gave the answer no and explained why then you answered your question for why you want to live. If i truly believed that i would be predestined for eternal bliss or damnation then my present material life would be worthless in light of that depressing dichotomy. Anything i did in this present life span would be inconsequential, insignificant, their would be no point, just meaningless eternal existence. However on the reverse spectrum i could accept that since i am mortal and finite that my life would have more value since i can as an individual can only do, see, hear, touch, taste, smell and experience so much of this universe in that it would make all those experiences all the more worthwhile knowing that i could only enjoy them once. If you believe that wearing tin-foil hats, drinking clam juice and riding a unicycle while chanting in spanish will get you into a positive afterlife, without trying to force others into your belief system or negatively affecting society then i have no problems with what you do with your cult buddies on the weekends. However once your cult/religion tries it's hand at trying to manipulate society via politics, media, education or science than we'll have a problem. Hope is the essential human delusion and intrinsic mannerism of the human psyche, it is our species greatest bastion of strength and our species greatest Achilles's heal it cannot for the whole of the species be killed, but if someone's hope can be irrecoverably dismantled by one internet user's post then their hopes and values were very fragile to begin with and doomed to fail.

What kind of an evil f**king monster are you!

I am the worst kind of monster, I'm human and humans are the true monsters of this world and to ourselves.

[video=youtube;a42RHVmnUAA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a42RHVmnUAA[/video]
Or
[video=youtube;G1chMywKgko]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1chMywKgko[/video]

For me I'll go with the latter.

 

[wellwisher]

There are two sides or hemispheres of the brain. The left side of the brain is more rational and differential, while the right brain is more intuitive and integral. The right brain sees the commonality of things while the left brain see things in terms of its parts. Specialization is an artifact of the left brain. Science is designed to be left brained since it deals with facts and reason. Science, alone, is good if the goal is 1/2 brain humans, since the right brain is not rational and will not fit into the template. The scientific method was design to factor out the right brain so only the differential side would be used.

We use both sides of the brain, but we are only conscious of one side at a time. The other side still operates but in an unconscious way. Science, although useful for developing the left brain fully, keep the right brain unconscious, since it factors out this data processing. When one reasons there is not supposed to be emotions working at the same time or this will bias the reasoning. This separation and isolation of the right brain, needed for calm science, is why I often I mention that fact that although consciousness is the main tool of science, how do you know it is in calibration, if the other half of the brain is unconscious? For example, science can appear rational while having hidden motivations; mercenary and consensus science. Consensus is more right brained; integral. That violates left brain isolation.

Religion is more right brained, since it is more intuitive/emotional. Faith is right brained. On the other hand, pure religion without reason from the left brain; science, can makes the left brain, unconscious. This can also lead to 1/2 brainers. My approach was to have a full brain that conscious by making use of both systems. This allows calibration for science and/or religion. It is not about isolating my brain into a 1/2, but blending into a whole.

 

[sideshowbob]

Conjuring things from our imaginations may be worth discussing, but they are still notions conjured from the imagination.

A lot of things are "conjured from the imagination" before their existence is known. That's the part of science that we call "forming a hypothesis". We can't test the hypothesis until we conjure it. We can't know if it's X or aX before we test it.

If/when you do conjure something from your imagination, what do you call it? If it doesn't exist, what do you call the absence of it?

Abananas? Aautomobiles? Ahuman?

Certainly, the terms are needed whether they use the prefix "a" or are formulated some other way:

My aunt could eat "abananas" - i.e. anything but bananas. (She was allergic to bananas.)​

In the seventeenth century there were "aautomobiles" - i.e. no automobiles.​

Living organisms can be divided into human and "ahuman" - i.e. non-human.​

 

[Mazulu]

However once your cult/religion tries it's hand at trying to manipulate society via politics, media, education or science than we'll have a problem.

I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I am sorry if that bothers your socialist instincts.

[video=youtube;a42RHVmnUAA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a42RHVmnUAA[/video]
Our lives are like books. They begin at our birth, they conclude when we die, they are filled with fun, excitement, pain, sorry, daring endeavors, bold achievements and devastating mistakes. These books are available to read in the Akashic records. They are written by our souls and are available for our learning and discovery of life.


[video=youtube;G1chMywKgko]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1chMywKgko[/video]

For me I'll go with the latter.

That won't be your hell. But I can see you wandering in some dark and lonely plane of existence in the afterlife, perhaps getting chased by undead skeletons. Perhaps it will be more like an an adventure.

 

[Saturnine Pariah]

I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I am sorry if that bothers your socialist instincts.

Not a socialist per say, but i value freedom from religion more than freedom of religion. In America, people are free to be stupid.

Our lives are like books. They begin at our birth, they conclude when we die, they are filled with fun, excitement, pain, sorry, daring endeavors, bold achievements and devastating mistakes.

That's a nice little metaphor

These books are available to read in the Akashic records. They are written by our souls and are available for our learning and discovery of life.

Like that you lost me.

That won't be your hell. But I can see you wandering in some dark and lonely plane of existence in the afterlife, perhaps getting chased by undead skeletons. Perhaps it will be more like an an adventure.

:shrug: I could imagine worse. Something more like the fate of Sisyphus or Prometheus would be "Hell' for me.

 

[Mazulu]

Sisyphus (/ˈsɪsɪfəs/;[1] Greek: Σίσυφος, Sísyphos) was a king of Ephyra (now known as Corinth) punished for chronic deceitfulness by being compelled to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it roll back down, and to repeat this action forever.

That just gave me a flashback of basic training for the US Army. I remember one night the whole company was doing pushups, except for the injured who were doing overhead hand claps. I remember the drill seargeant yelling: FOR THOSE OF YOU WITH ENOUGH HEART TO FINISH WHAT YOU START, WELCOME TO HELL!!! It was beautiful! And intense!.