Will COVID vaccines affect women's fertility and birth rates?
- Thread starter Neurostudent
- Start date
Arthur Smith
Registered Member
I think you've misunderstood. I strongly encourage all pregnant women who haven't done so to get vaccinated straight away. My point about the thalidomide tragedy is it has resulted in extreme caution with regard to drug trials and pregnancy.
This link does not support your claim
Did not contain substantially the same words as
...the caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease
AND you did not
- CLEARLY state your view simple
- YES I think pregnant women SHOULD GET VACCINATED
- or
- NO I think pregnant women SHOULD NOT GET VACCINATED
Arh so it is an OPINION based on
- One that pregnant women have been reluctant
- which is clearly understandable (speaking as a retired RN Midwife who had a few years with pregnant women)
- Two that unvaccinated pregnant women are at much higher risk from COVID.
- Which is also understandable
...the caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease
Statistical analysis does not work like that
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
Wake up Michael, you've got this round your neck.It would help if you posted your CLAIM along with the LINK
And talking about the thalidomide tragedy does nothing to reassure me you are trying to get pregnant women not to get vaccinated
https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/covid-19-increases-mortality-rate-among-pregnant-women
This link is more concerned with pregnant women who catch COVID-19
Please
Your CLAIM WAS
- CLEARLY state your view simple
- YES I think pregnant women SHOULD GET VACCINATED
- or
- NO I think pregnant women SHOULD NOT GET VACCINATED
You have not SUBSTANTIATED that claim you should be able to provide a link with substantially the same words as
...the caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease
Please can you provide such a link?
Arthur's meaning was quite clear from his original post.
Arthur Smith
Registered Member
This link does not support your claim
Did not contain substantially the same words as
...the caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease
AND you did not
- CLEARLY state your view simple
- YES I think pregnant women SHOULD GET VACCINATED
- or
- NO I think pregnant women SHOULD NOT GET VACCINATED
Arh so it is an OPINION based on
But those two nuggets DO NOT allow you to claim
- One that pregnant women have been reluctant
- which is clearly understandable (speaking as a retired RN Midwife who had a few years with pregnant women)
- Two that unvaccinated pregnant women are at much higher risk from COVID.
- Which is also understandable
...the caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease
Statistical analysis does not work like that
Did you read the LA Times article?
Arthur Smith
Registered Member
Wake up Michael, you've got this round your neck.
I thought I was but communication is a two-way street. I'm available for clarification.
Which is well known but poorly communicated by yourself when linked (however tenuous) with COVID-19
Arthur Smith
Registered Member
Ah, new here. Is there some restriction on posting oticons?
Arthur Smith
Registered Member
You disagree with me about excess deaths among pregnant women due to delay in them being vaccinated?Which is well known but poorly communicated by yourself when linked (however tenuous) with COVID-19
Link please or this your opinion
No problem expressing opinions when label as such
Arthur Smith
Registered Member
EMOTICONS! I was posting on my phone, hence typo. I'm anglophone, British English. I get the impression English may not be your first language. I know how easy it is to miss the nuance in another language than your own.Link please or this your opinion
No problem expressing opinions when label as such
Wake up Michael, you've got this round your neck.
This is Arthur's original post and its meaning is not far from clear to me sorry
Shocking how the caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease. At least better late than never that advice to pregnant women is they should get vaccinated now.
No source of the caution is given and no link provided to substantiate how such caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease.
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exchemist
Valued Senior Member
The caution is that shown by women in not coming forward to be vaccinated. Here is one article about it: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2862This is Arthur's original post and its meaning is not not far from clear to me sorry
Shocking how the caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease. At least better late than never that advice to pregnant women is they should get vaccinated now.
No source of the caution is given and no link provided to substantiate how such caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease.
Arthur Smith
Registered Member
OK, my mistake. But did you read the LA times article. There's no question that pregnant women were initially discouraged from getting vaccinated. There's no question that pregnant women who catch covid are at risk of serious disease and worse. I'm very glad that pregnant women are being urged to get vaccinated and (with hindsight, perhaps) it's unfortunate such advice didn't come sooner. I'm not sure what you disagree with other than my communication deficit.
I have been retired as RN Midwife over 20 years but still have contacts. Have not been involved with any aspects of COVID-19, apart from being stranded in Bali for 18 months because of it and having my first vaccination in Kuta
From what I hear was not so much pregnant women were discouraged, more cautioned - guided - assisted in making their choice
Certainly my training was focused on patients making their choice in all health matters
Psychiatry tries but for obvious reasons Patients choice and Psychiatrist choice are not always in agreement
I do so all the time
Cheers
Arthur Smith
Registered Member
It's a bit like Pascal's wager. There was initially a lack of guidance to nurses, midwives and doctors so individuals naturally were cautious about advising pregnant women to get vaccinated (there was no information regarding vaccines and pregnancy as pregnant women were excluded from trials). People took the cautious approach and advised delay. It has since become very clear that Covid vaccines are not harmful to pregnant women or their babies and that many unvaccinated pregnant women incurred avoidable problems as a result.
TLDR: the advice that pregnant women should get vaccinated came later than it ought to have done - and too late for some.
The LA times article covers it well.
Off topic
Case going through court here, Australia, where the Judge has stated NO ACRONYMS to be used in the case. Sad I never collected his words as he expressed it so well
Wish more people would spell stuff out, not use ACRONYMS
My 2 cent opinion
Arthur Smith
Registered Member
Agree somewhat. The rule in formal communication is to attach full phrase on first use and then just the acronym subsequently. I draw the line at British Broadcasting Corporation though. (I thought everyone knew "too long; didn't read")