Why is the concept of theistic evolution unacceptable to you?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Rav, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Jan Ardena:

    No. As I explained to you in my previous posts, I have helpfully linked you to an example of evolution that is amply verified by evidence. There is no assumption in "gigantic changes do occur", because there is evidence that gigantic changes have occurred. I gave you some. That you choose to ignore the evidence that is presented to you doesn't put you in a particularly good light.

    Science is a process of inference from evidence. Direct observation is seldom a requirement. Nobody can ever hope to directly observe an electron, for example. Would you like to argue that therefore electrons remain theoretical at best? What about a statement like "Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere causes global warming"? Can we see carbon dioxide? Can we directly see that warming happening? Is this statement "theoretical at best", then?

    According to your argument, every theory in science is theoretical at best. Gravity can never be observed, so it is theoretical at best.

    And what of Napoleon? Nobody alive today can ever observe Napoleon, or has ever observed him. So, is Napoleon Bonaparte theoretical at best?

    Are you starting to see the flaw in your argument here? It's a biggy.

    I already showed you a very nice cladogram of whale evolution which summarises the observations nicely.
     
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  3. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    You showed cartoon pictures. Period.

    Unless you can show actual evidence, it is a fairy tale.

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    jan.
     
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  5. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.
     
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  7. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    A work of fiction that no reputable academic takes seriously.
     
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    James R,

    So what you're saying is that it's never, ever, been observed.
    Why can't you just admit it?

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    jan.
     
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It's been observed in the fossils. Of course evolution works by gradual change. No one is going to see the type of physical changes you require for proof in one lifetime, or even in a thousand lifetimes. But many of these processes have been captured as fossils. We can observe evolution happen in nature that is the same process. Have you ever seen your fingernails grow? No, you only infer they grow because sometimes you notice they are longer than they used to be.
     
  10. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    So you're saying every single thing in that book is untrue?

    Am I correct in that thinking?

    jan.
     
  11. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,968

    So when peiople say we have observed evolution, they're not refering to to the contravertial goo to man notion? Is that correct?

    jan.
     
  12. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It's Hindu Creationist propaganda. It's possible that he talks about objects which are real, but his interpretations are wrong.
     
  13. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    If you include observing the fossil evidence, then yes they have observed samples from every era, from pond scum to mankind. If you limit your notion of observation to living creatures, then it's unreasonable to demand observation of something that took 4 billion years to happen.
     
  14. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Interesting. What evidence might that be?
     
  15. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    So what do you mean by a ''work of fiction''?

    What was the source of his interpretation?

    jan.
     
  16. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Sure.

    http://www.indiana.edu/~lynchlab/PDF/Lynch100.pdf

    http://nd.edu/~mpfrende/PDFs/Simon_et_al_JHered_2011.pdf

    Major changes in Daphnia life-history in organisms genetically predisposed to major changes via environment. Environment changes permanently, followed by silencing of the mutations that cause the susceptibility, radically different organism. Think about how little a difference is actually required to make a species; squirrels, canids and cats don't look too different within each group but don't interbreed at all, or operate with behavioural barriers to that interbreeding. Here's another good paper on rapidly evolving lizards:

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080421-lizard-evolution.html

    Pretty major dietary shift there.
     
  17. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Well sure. And cattle have never been improved for milk output either, nor sheep for wool production. No one sat there and watched it happen without interruption over the last millenium, so it must not have occurred.
     
  18. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    The evidence that shows modern human remains and artifax that show modern humans have been around considerably longer than the current understanding suggests.

    And the skull-duggery, that attempts to suppress those findings.
    It's very interesting.

    jan.
     
  19. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    FFS, SG, will you take that damn avatar off?
     
  20. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    I reiterate for him: and what evidence might that be? Where is it?
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It's also bullshit.
     
  22. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Why?

    jan.
     
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    He's self published for one thing, no peer reviewed journals to burst his bubble of creationist nonsense. He fails to acknowledge modern dating techniques and the failures of past researchers. There are numerous sites that debunk this crazy book.
     

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