Why do so many view 47 as good?

Brooks is off base. Trump is a narcissist and is acting like a narcissist. It's that simple. People who support either candidate are largely doing it because their policies hurt that voter the least

It's got little to do with capitalism or a loss of morals in society. Politics has largely become a clown show and people largely ignore it to the extent possible.

The implication here is that were we more religious and moral we wouldn't have Trump as President. We could have Biden or Harris however you could make different criticisms of those two and so we are back at square one.

IMO the bigger problem began with 24/7 news editorializing and the need that brings for drama and click bait. Therefore, there is little actual "news" and it's all biased in one way or another. It's all divisive and that's what we now have, division.

We need transparency and accountability and not ideology and drama.

Brooks article title says it's about people thinking Trump is "good" but nothing in the article backs that up.
It might not be in the article, but have you heard of MAGA supporters? Virtually all Christian fundies(any non-fundies in the usa?) think trump is better then good, to some he's known as dad.

Don't tell me you don't know this?
 
Okay, but you do know that in the US they go month/day, right? I mean, I got your initial quip, and I'd have hoped you'd have understood mine, but, here you are, trying to explain your original comment?? Sure. Whatever.
I understand completely, but people more often just say the 4th of July rather than July 4th. Same with Cinco de Mayo, and other dates. It's a psychological thing, not how the date is numerically symbolized.
 
I understand completely, but people more often just say the 4th of July rather than July 4th. Same with Cinco de Mayo, and other dates. It's a psychological thing, not how the date is numerically symbolized.
Psychology follows what people are used to... and in the US they may say "4th of July" but they would see that date as 7/4. Linking it to 4/7 would be... odd... as that's just not how they see the date, irrespective of how they say it. If they saw it as 47, or even thought about it in that way, do you not think Trump/MAGA would have played into it on 4th July this year?

Cinco de Mayo is a Mexican thing, and they say "5th of May" AND they write the date in day/month order. So it's not a great example to use.

But, sure, whatever.
 
Psychology follows what people are used to... and in the US they may say "4th of July" but they would see that date as 7/4. Linking it to 4/7 would be... odd... as that's just not how they see the date, irrespective of how they say it. If they saw it as 47, or even thought about it in that way, do you not think Trump/MAGA would have played into it on 4th July this year?

Cinco de Mayo is a Mexican thing, and they say "5th of May" AND they write the date in day/month order. So it's not a great example to use.

But, sure, whatever.
You really don't understand how the brain can make such links. If psychology was all about what people are used to, you wouldn't need professionals to help you find the deeper links.
 
I feel this digression on unconscious minds and date notation may have passed it's freshness date.
 
I
I do sometimes see the "bland moral relativism" here, though I don't know that member well enough to weigh in. I do suspect there is too much leaning on the notion that people can simply act from self-interest and that will somehow all work out, the invisible hand will prevail, etc.
I'm a moral relativist, and I have no idea how you came to your assessment of moral relativism. I understand it very differently than you. How it functions is based more so on logical reasoning and subjective reality than on your invisible hand speculative assertion.
 
Yeah it’s just a sense I get of withdrawal from any notion of social responsibility and preoccupation with economics and what’s in it for me.
Yeah, I think that's the gist and a good way to approach social interaction and conduct.
 
As an outside, not-American observer my speculation is that a lot of Americans like Trump because he appears to be making some long held fantasies real - fantasies of politics done without compromises or constraints, of the use of force, to force desired outcomes, of Republicans crushing Democrats so comprehensively there can be no Democrat governance ever again, of complete rejection of inconvenient truths like the significance of global warming science or that universal healthcare is a good thing. Fantasies of 'unifying' American society by requiring submission by minorities to the values of a dominant majority, of expulsion or punishment of those that will not and rejection of tolerance of difference and compromise with it.

Unfortunately I think those kinds of fantasies made real don't turn out nearly so well as imagined - usually much worse not only than the desired outcomes but much worse than what you already have - ie that unintended consequences are real and very serious and difficult/impossible to manage. But I am of the view that successful modern nations are usually made up of disparate elements and governance is very much about compromises. And that tolerance for freely held beliefs, politics and lifestyles that are different, that do not directly harm others - live and let live - is beneficial. Without it minorities don't necessary submit and assimilate, they stand their ground and they fight, with escalations - which become self-justifying and self-perpetuating conflict.

I think the harms to the USA from loss of that tolerance of difference in a nation of people of wide-ranging differences and the loss of faith in the rule of law and courts and elections to be fair will be difficult to stem or reverse.
 
As an outside, not-American observer my speculation is that a lot of Americans like Trump because he appears to be making some long held fantasies real - fantasies of politics done without compromises or constraints, of the use of force, to force desired outcomes,
Yes. Turnip 47 is the sort of grifter who can sell fantasies, even ones that remain fantasies when reality stubbornly refuses to yield to them. Social media allows the Right to stoke fake outrage and grievances in people who originally didn't really have them so much, and then Trump sweeps in and promises to soothe their artificially induced frustrations with heroic strokes of his vorpal sword. It has to be one of the dumbest cults in this nation's history (and that's really saying something).
 
Good Thing None of Them Are Chri―… Oh.

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People see 47 as good more from the fact that they see the other side as evil, rather than seeing 47 as actually good.

See C C, "Partisan hostility" #1↗, in re Warner (2025) on protest motivation; see also, Tiassa (#3)↗:

… the reason they are rejected is, quite literally, because they are wrong. They're wrong about physics and biology, even requiring alternate definitions of terms in order to make their arguments. Their behavioral expectations are ad hoc and extemporary, not so much stitched together as only extant in their given moment. One of the main reasons they might feel rejected is that they are so frequently and thoroughly wrong.

Because the other part of that is everybody else ....

.... Historically, conservatives have long feared the other party; it's easy enough to recall the Red Scare, but we could just start with the Reagan Awakening and the role of anti-communism in orienting voters against Democrats. For Black Lives Matter, for instance, there is an historical reason to be wary and even defensive against mainline conservative iteration; the Tea Party, though, was just the latest reiteration of antiliberal fearmongering dating back at least to the Red Scare. And where, albeit in different ways, both BLM and climate concerns also have historical reason to distrust mainline liberal iteration, it is undeniable that Republicans have carved out an untenable position¹, elevating the threat value of the partisan generality.

In sum, we must guard against false symmetrization, which is of course a ceaseless vigil ....

.... While Warner's paper "challenges the idea that protests are only about policy change", it does occur to wonder if there is anything particularly new about the idea that "protesting can also be a way to stand against the other party". But what might be new is what drives people to focus on party as the source of their sense of threat: While rightist fear of liberalism is nothing new, sharpening conservative dissent against an increasingly dissatisfactory reality might have transformed a fundamental presupposition about political discourse; i.e., it is harder to enforce pretenses of taboo against talk of supremacist hatemongering, disqualifying crackpottery, and authoritarian corruption if those become the platform. That is, it's harder to require liberals to find alternate explanations for conservative behavior when Republicans insist on making the point for them, and this might actually be a fundamental transformation of our political discourse.

It's the difference between the Southern Strategy and not bothering to pretend anymore. And if there is no more customary obligation to not go there, then the calculation of the threat value of Republican partisan identification or proximity is radically, if not fundamentally transformed.

From there, it only gets a little more complicated; we can look back to early 2024↗:

"You can't defeat an opponent," scolds Bret Stephens, "if you refuse to understand what makes him formidable." The New York Times columnist and former Wall Street Journal editor offers up another ritual tithe to conservative idolatry: His point is that Trump's critics need to stop saying things about Trump or his supporters that Trump and his supporters don't like. "Maybe it's time", Stephens preaches↱, "to think a little more deeply about the enduring sources of his appeal".

But that's the thing, the enduring sources of Trump's appeal are his supremacist, authoritarian attitudes and thrill of empowerment people feel in behaving abusively. According to Stephens, Trump's critics should criticize "without calling him names, or disparaging his supporters, or attributing his resurgence to nefarious foreign actors or the unfairness of the Electoral College."

In other words, critics are supposed to address the supremacism without calling it supremacism, receive and engage supporters without upsetting them, hear Trump boast of his corruption without saying anything about it, and hear him make false claims about elections without responding. This comes back to the heart of Stephens' argument: The enduring source of Trump's appeal is the supremacism as justification for abusive behavior.

And the thing is, this isn't new. Stephens is just trying for another ring around the ouroburos.

It's not that I would so directly disagree, WoW, with your summary, but, rather, consider what it means: While there are those who resent such discussion of Trump supporters, between then and now what have we actually seen from Trump, and what has been the reaction and response of his supporters? Compared to other reasons or priorities people might claim for supporting Donald Trump, it's one thing that they see him as some sort of important figure in their demarcation and valuation of good and evil, but I might also simply point to what they think is good. The part they didn't vote for, apparently, is the part that hurts or even merely inconveniences them. And we might look at two reasons for this, and both are in play: Some part of this really is unimaginable, and predictably so according to the axiom that truth is stranger than fiction; also, though, there are the practical, intersectional parts they just didn't think through beforehand. Some of their kids are going to die because of their votes for Trump and other Republicans, and while it's unlikely they will call such an outcome good, it was at the very least negotiable in their pursuit of what they think is good.

"If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, 'This man began to build, and was not able to finish.'"

(Lk. 14.26-30 [RSV]↱)

And that's the thing about diversity; what links Trump supporters of diverse creed, and even color, is their struggle and strive toward complete and perfect selfishness. Human beings can always find common ground, just as long as they all get something of satisfactory value out of it.
 
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