Why aren't magnet generators more mainstream?

G

garbonzo

Registered Senior Member
I saw a video on magnetic rocks and the question came to me, "Why not make a free energy generator from magnets? I'm sure it's possible." I looked it up and sure enough you can do this, even with a few items around your house! This is amazing to me, but yet I've never heard of it before. If I went out on the street I doubt many others would know either.

So I know there must be a reason why this isn't more mainstream, is a good generator that produces a good amount of electricity too expensive to make, or is it too bulky, or what? Why don't we see magnetic powered cars (I understand car manufacturers are using magnets to improve efficiency, but not 100% powered by) or homes or anything, really?

I see a video on HowStuffWorks about a magnetic generator powering a lightbulb. Why can't we put this into everyone's homes inside the ceiling? Is it too loud perhaps?

Thanks!
 
Dywyddyr said:
Did you notice the bit where it says "move it rapidly from side to side"?
You get less energy out than you put in.
In other words you'd be better off using the original source to directly power whatever it is you want to do.
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks, I missed that. I see in the video that they are working on it, but the technology isn't quite there yet. I believe it will be possible one day.
 
garbonzo said:
http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-...ion/green/how-to-build-magnetic-generator.htm

I don't know what free energy is supposed to mean, is any form of renewable energy free energy? Then how could you say solar panels don't work? There has to be some definition decided on what free energy is before you claim they all don't work.
Click to expand...

Adding to what the two excellent posters above* said, note that renewable energy is naturally generated energy: the sun's radiant light/heat, the winds created through heating, the wave action created by such wind plus the energy due to the mass and velocity of the moon, the water which falls from the rain created through solar heating, the temperature difference in the ground when the sun heats the air, or the air cools below ground temperature.

Renewable energy systems such as photovoltaic panels harness the energy. That energy is free of cost, once you have paid for the equipment. But it is not free in thermodynamic terms: the sun "lost" the amount of energy you "gained" at your solar panel. The law of conservation of energy is nature's way of telling you that there is no free energy (no net gain), that it's impossible. People who keep insisting on this are either incredibly stupid or just moronic pranksters.

They also tend to be attacking science from a religious position.



_____

*BTW are you Farsight/RC/Reiku? Are you people all sock puppets of a single former banned user?
 
garbonzo said:
Ah, thanks, I missed that. I see in the video that they are working on it, but the technology isn't quite there yet. I believe it will be possible one day.
Click to expand...
Depends on what you mean.
Like I said you'll ALWAYS lose energy in the process, so the only place a magnetic generator would be any good would be where there isn't already an electric power source, or you can "afford" to ignore the losses.
A dynamo on a bicycle is okay, since you're already pedalling and it doesn't take much out of the effort.
Or a hydro electric station where the water falls for "free" anyway.
 
garbonzo said:
I don't know what free energy is supposed to mean
Click to expand...
More energy out than you put in.
is any form of renewable energy free energy?
Click to expand...
Not at all. Renewable energy is energy that you can get more of, without relying on (for example) buried coal that will someday run out.
Then how could you say solar panels don't work?
Click to expand...
Solar panels do work. They convert sunlight (solar energy) into electricity. They are about 15% efficient - which means you get LESS energy out than you put in.
I see in the video that they are working on it, but the technology isn't quite there yet. I believe it will be possible one day.
Click to expand...
Not in the form of magnet motors. We may get much better at extracting energy from various reactions (like fusion) - and we may get better at sustaining those reactions - but we will never be able to generate energy from nothing.
 
billvon said:
Not in the form of magnet motors. We may get much better at extracting energy from various reactions (like fusion) - and we may get better at sustaining those reactions - but we will never be able to generate energy from nothing.
Click to expand...

Why can't you get energy from the magnetic field? Why does the video say they hope to remove the battery that powers that device in the future? It's not like it's a quack site. Where does the energy come from for evaporation? Just trying to understand.
 
garbonzo said:
Why can't you get energy from the magnetic field?]
Click to expand...
You can get energy from a changing magnetic field. (That's how generators work.) But you cannot get energy from a static magnetic field.
Why does the video say they hope to remove the battery that powers that device in the future?
Click to expand...
"Magnet motors" have a long history. A lot of people really think they work. They got patents and everything. But in the hundreds of years that they have been proposed, not one has ever worked - and, with the discovery of the laws of thermodynamics, we now understand why.
 
billvon said:
You can get energy from a changing magnetic field. (That's how generators work.) But you cannot get energy from a static magnetic field.
Click to expand...

Can you explain further? I'm a noob.

billvon said:
"Magnet motors" have a long history. A lot of people really think they work. They got patents and everything. But in the hundreds of years that they have been proposed, not one has ever worked - and, with the discovery of the laws of thermodynamics, we now understand why.
Click to expand...

When were the laws of thermodynamics discovered and when was this video posted? (I assume the video was posted after.) Are you saying they just don't know about these laws? (I find that hard to believe) Or that these are just amateurs with no qualifications?

EDIT: Also, where does the energy come from for evaporation again?
 
garbonzo said:
Can you explain further? I'm a noob.



When were the laws of thermodynamics discovered and when was this video posted? (I assume the video was posted after.) Are you saying they just don't know about these laws? (I find that hard to believe) Or that these are just amateurs with no qualifications?

EDIT: Also, where does the energy come from for evaporation again?
Click to expand...

The link you posted, placing a magnet on the nail does absolutely nothing. The magnet has to move, or the conductor has to move, to generate electricity.

Laws of Thermodynamics come from the 1800s. The video is from, well, conmen. They tell you straight up the 2 cones are spinning because of a battery operated motor BUT one day the hope to eliminate the battery operated motor. That will never happen. It can never happen.

Evaporation is solar power. Hydroelectricity is solar power (rain cycle is powered by the Sun). Wind power is solar power (wind is caused by the Sun heating the Earth's surface unevenly since it isn't perfectly flat). These are "Free to Me" energy. As long as I have the money to buy the right "collector" the energy is provided free to me.

Magnetism is a force, not an energy. Gravity is a force, not an energy. Gravity makes water flow downhill which gives water the energy to spin turbines to produce electricity.

Go look at the link in post 11 for perpetual motion machines and why the don't work.
 
leopold said:
wrong.
the field is constant.
it's the conductors that move.
relative motion bill.
Click to expand...
'

Whether the conductor moves through the field or the field moves through the conductor, the principle is the same. That is, it serves only to convert shaft energy to electric energy. The OP proposed "free energy" which implies no energy is added on the shaft, but rather, it's derived by coupling directly to the static field, which of course is not compatible with the physics. This is why bill said "changing magnetic field". There has to be a changing field at the conductor or no current is produced. (BTW bill is an electrical engineer in the power industry so he's an expert on this topic.)
 
TBodillia said:
The link you posted, placing a magnet on the nail does absolutely nothing. The magnet has to move, or the conductor has to move, to generate electricity.

Laws of Thermodynamics come from the 1800s. The video is from, well, conmen. They tell you straight up the 2 cones are spinning because of a battery operated motor BUT one day the hope to eliminate the battery operated motor. That will never happen. It can never happen.

Evaporation is solar power. Hydroelectricity is solar power (rain cycle is powered by the Sun). Wind power is solar power (wind is caused by the Sun heating the Earth's surface unevenly since it isn't perfectly flat). These are "Free to Me" energy. As long as I have the money to buy the right "collector" the energy is provided free to me.

Magnetism is a force, not an energy. Gravity is a force, not an energy. Gravity makes water flow downhill which gives water the energy to spin turbines to produce electricity.

Go look at the link in post 11 for perpetual motion machines and why the don't work.
Click to expand...

Yes. All of us who have some background in electromagnetics are in agreement. The other way for garbanzo to think of this is that drawing energy from a static field would violate conservation of energy. And yes, this is a common point of confusion among lay people, that force and energy are the same. Obviously they are not. (The field is the "acceleration" component of the force, whereas we need Joules, not m/s[sup]2[/sup]*. Or: we need that force moved across a distance, which is the same thing as saying the shaft must be turned by an external source.)

*the actual units of the mag. field are (Newton x second)/(Coulomb x meter).
 
garbonzo said:
Can you explain further? I'm a noob.
Click to expand...
If a conductor moves through a magnetic field, current is induced. A force is also induced which opposes the motion. Thus, using a magnetic field, you can convert mechanical energy to electrical energy. But it doesn't come "for free" - it comes from the mechanical energy.
When were the laws of thermodynamics discovered and when was this video posted? (I assume the video was posted after.) Are you saying they just don't know about these laws?
Click to expand...
Most likely they have been seduced by the cleverness of their own idea, and they think they have found an "exception" to the laws of thermodynamics.
I find that hard to believe) Or that these are just amateurs with no qualifications?
Click to expand...
Probably a little of both.
EDIT: Also, where does the energy come from for evaporation again?
Click to expand...
Evaporation comes from heat energy. Is that what you meant?
 
billvon said:
If a conductor moves through a magnetic field, current is induced. A force is also induced which opposes the motion. Thus, using a magnetic field, you can convert mechanical energy to electrical energy. But it doesn't come "for free" - it comes from the mechanical energy.

Most likely they have been seduced by the cleverness of their own idea, and they think they have found an "exception" to the laws of thermodynamics.

Probably a little of both.

Evaporation comes from heat energy. Is that what you meant?
Click to expand...

Thanks, I learned a lot. And laughed at "probably a little of both".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top