Who we are..

And how will the balance in nature be maintained if no one eats anyone? Hares will eat all the crops, as rabbits once became a disaster in Australia. Insects will also eat everything, because birds will not eat them, and so on.

Surely the Bible provides its own remedy for why animals would not reciprocally respond to the terms of future social contracts. By eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve became moral beings. Their descendants thus doomed to fixate, elaborate, and quarrel as they continually expanded and refined ethical standards. Whereas, animals remained blissfully unaware of that endless conceptual territory and responsibilities within it -- free to eat each other as usual.

For the secular world ascribing rights to animals, that moral obliviousness might initially seem a problem in terms of justification for such rights. But animals are at least sentient (if not intellectual), and along that route some kind of argument for dignity and freedom from human exploitation can apparently be advanced. Since again, the big-brained bipeds are still stuck with their "mind virus" and its conduct management obligations.

As for humans systematically culling rabbits or other invaders...

In an old interview, Tony Hillerman -- the ultimate source of the Dark Winds television series -- referred to how the Navajo have great respect for snakes, to the point that he may have mistakenly conceived it as worship (decades ago). At any rate, he related how he visited his Navajo friends one day at their ranch and surprisingly saw that they had dozens of dead rattlesnakes straddling the fence.

He commented: "I thought they were your sacred friends."

They responded: "Sometimes you can have too many friends."

It was his way of pointing out that despite having a formal reverence or respect for elements of their natural environment, the Navajo were still a pragmatic people. No doubt any prevailing vegan norm of the future can similarly adjust.
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Я ем животных. И я люблю животных. Не знаю, смогла бы я зарубить сама курицу, или ещё какое-нибудь животное. Но в природе все всех едят, за исключением растений. Даже если бы я отказалась от мяса, мне всё равно пришлось бы его покупать для собаки и кота, потому что они хищники, и нуждаются в животном белке.

Отношение к морали? Не понимаю о чём вопрос. Стала бы я аморальной?
do you think it is possible for someone to change their morals ?
 
In an old interview, Tony Hillerman -- the ultimate source of the Dark Winds television series -- referred to how the Navajo have great respect for snakes, to the point that he may have mistakenly conceived it as worship (decades ago). At any rate, he related how he visited his Navajo friends one day at their ranch and surprisingly saw that they had dozens of dead rattlesnakes straddling the fence.

He commented: "I thought they were your sacred friends."

They responded: "Sometimes you can have too many friends."

It was his way of pointing out that despite having a formal reverence or respect for elements of their natural environment, the Navajo were still a pragmatic people. No doubt any prevailing vegan norm of the future can similarly adjust.
_
Zahn McClarnon is kinda how I had always imagined Leaphorn, and I'm glad that guy finally got a proper starring role in something. I've spent considerable time in Navajo Nation over the decades and the Navajo do tend to be an almost ruthlessly pragmatic bunch--and I mean "ruthlessly" in the best possible sense--in part out of necessity. They don't even take water for granted, as you'd expect one wouldn't (or shouldn't) when your water supply comes out of a tank.

In much Animal Studies and Critical Animal Studies literature these days, they tend to emphasize liberationover rights, given the presumed difficulties with respect to that social contract element. Rights are much more meaningful perhaps with respect to dogs, horses, and other animals with whom we have some sort of long established "working" relationship, especially as language and communication are likely essential for contractual relations. Children have limited rights as compared to adults owing to perceived limitations and such, and according rights to non-human animals will likely develop in a similar fashion--though perceived "limitations" here are of a very different nature, or perhaps different directionally. It doesn't take a genius to see that dogs tend to be far more capable with regards to both inter- and intraspecies communication, than do humans, by and large.
 
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It doesn't take a genius to see that dogs tend to be far more capable with regards to both inter- and intraspecies communication, than do humans, by and large.
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https://animalchannel.co/cat-chicken-form-friendship/
 
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do you think it is possible for someone to change their morals ?
Может. "Возлюби ближнего своего, как самого себя". Как это сделать на практике? Придумать что то, что позволит каждому знать мысли и чувства других, чувствовать других так же, как себя самого. Кто захочет сам себя обманывать, самому себе завидовать, или ещё каким-нибудь образом вредить?
 
Zahn McClarnon is kinda how I had always imagined Leaphorn, and I'm glad that guy finally got a proper starring role in something. I've spent considerable time in Navajo Nation over the decades and the Navajo do tend to be an almost ruthlessly pragmatic bunch--and I mean "ruthlessly" in the best possible sense--in part out of necessity. They don't even take water for granted, as you'd expect one wouldn't (or shouldn't) when your water supply comes out of a tank.

In contrast to Zahn, all I blurrily recall from Redford's PBS adaptations in the early 2000s is Wes Studi wearing dark glasses, a suit -- very urban looking appearance, anyway, whatever it was.

I did remember McClarnon from one of the Fargo seasons -- the one with the flying saucer, I guess. So many of his other appearances had faded due to the shows themselves being crowded out in their battles for limited memory storage: Longmire, The Shield, Westworld, and the now ancient Into the West. My gosh, even Timeless -- I can't for the life of me recall what episode that was (90% of them drawing a blank, really) -- but it makes sense given that the 19th and earlier centuries were destinations. (Grant Johnson the historical archetype for Tonto?! If "Hi-yo, Silver!" himself was an ethnic-swap of Bass Reeves from the start, then no complaints possible for undoing that in the 21st-century.)

In much Animal Studies and Critical Animal Studies literature these days, they tend to emphasize liberationover rights, given the presumed difficulties with respect to that social contract element. Rights are much more meaningful perhaps with respect to dogs, horses, and other animals with whom we have some sort of long established "working" relationship, especially as language and communication are likely essential for contractual relations. Children have limited rights as compared to adults owing to perceived limitations and such, and according rights to non-human animals will likely develop in a similar fashion--though perceived "limitations" here are of a very different nature, or perhaps different directionally. It doesn't take a genius to see that dogs tend to be far more capable with regards to both inter- and intraspecies communication, than do humans, by and large.

I'm still waiting for the talking dogs of "City" and the cat-derived woman in Cordwainer Smith's The Ballad of Lost C'Mell (the latter will really rattle Rowling's world).

Decades ago, John Varley wrote a short story about a boy with a digital afterlife mother (personal information converted into an AI chatbot with legal standing and parental rights) who kept him locked in perpetual pre-adolescence, Peter Pan style. Anyway, he had a friend -- a kid who transitioned to having the body of a bipedal dinosaur (or something). Prior to reading that, it had never dawned on me that the Island of Dr Moreau stuff could go the other way. Humans that surgically adopted the hybrid forms of animals (not mere furry cosplay). Otherkin and therians just need to feel the spiritual beckoning of transhumanism and species dysphoria to a more literal degree, and we're on our way to populating the Earth with pseudo-aliens (no actual UAP or spaceship occupants need to apply anymore).
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On a night that we were visiting during winter, one of hubby's cousins showed us one of their chickens sleeping with the cats outside, in the latter's shelter (a wild-ish hen that refused to join the others in the chickenhouse). Also, later had a last surviving guinea that would sleep with the dog for warmth. (Hard to find a dog that won't chase poultry -- helps to establish fear in them at an early age by "accidentally" having an angry hen with baby chicks attack them as a young pup).
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Может. "Возлюби ближнего своего, как самого себя". Как это сделать на практике? Придумать что то, что позволит каждому знать мысли и чувства других, чувствовать других так же, как себя самого. Кто захочет сам себя обманывать, самому себе завидовать, или ещё каким-нибудь образом вредить?
a lot of people enjoy watching other people get hurt
i cheer when i see a ruzzian soldier get blown up by a land mine or FPV drone. to me that is justice.
people can be quite complicated.
i will be VERY happy when Ukraine Intelligence track down and kill all those ruzzian pilots firing missiles at Schools , Hospitals & Apartment buildings.
 
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a lot of people enjoy watching other people get hurt
i cheer when i see a ruzzian soldier get blown up by a land mine or FPV drone. to me that is justice.
people can be quite complicated.
i will be VERY happy when Ukraine Intelligence track down and kill all those ruzzian pilots firing missiles at Schools , Hospitals & Apartment buildings.
Но если бы вы чувствовали страдания других так же, как и свои собственные, вам бы уже не было так радостно. Да и другим тоже. Войн вообще бы не было.
 
My gosh, even Timeless -- I can't for the life of me recall what episode that was (90% of them drawing a blank, really) -- but it makes sense given that the 19th and earlier centuries were destinations. (Grant Johnson the historical archetype for Tonto?! If "Hi-yo, Silver!" himself was an ethnic-swap of Bass Reeves from the start, then no complaints possible for undoing that in the 21st-century.)
Anyone opening a thread on Timeless will witness me unburdening myself of my conflicted feelings on the show. The cliches and constant shrugging off of temporal paradoxes and screaming butterfly effects somehow counterbalanced by Rufus' quips and being smitten by Lucy.

Anyway, the Hillerman anecdote (snakes on a fence) seems apt. We are environment-altering apes struggling to balance practical needs with what ecosystems can bear. Amazon tribes could reverence the rainforest while doing slash-and-burn cropping because they were few and the Amazon immense. The small holes they poked in it could heal over quickly.
 
Но если бы вы чувствовали страдания других так же, как и свои собственные, вам бы уже не было так радостно. Да и другим тоже. Войн вообще бы не было.
1 giant single celled organism ...
how would you feel if you could feel everyone having sex at the same time ?(constantly)
 
1 giant single celled organism ...
how would you feel if you could feel everyone having sex at the same time ?(constantly)
Да сексом то ещё ничего, возможно, многим это даже понравилось бы. Вот всеобщее похмелье - это да, это хреново.
Русский анекдот: утром после большой попойки одна голова Змея Горыныча с ненавистью смотрит на две другие, и шипит: "вот сволочи! Как бухать - так вдвоём, а как блевать - так втроём!"
 
To even possibly understand a little of what people experience under different forms of meditation, you have to try it yourself. Reading won't due it. Same with other forms of shall I say non-standard experiences. ( drugs, kama sutra, extreme concentration, etc.
 
Absolutely agree that reading the Kama Sutra will be missing some aspects of the experience.

:cool:
 
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