Who Needs oil

[Enmos]

it is like i tell my wife; if i only knew now what i do, 20 years ago

back then i would have built it myself and simply took it to the media

No, that is not what I meant.

You use the same spaces between your lines as Gently Passing.
Also, when comparing your profiles:

Gently passing:
Biography:
My wife and I are scientists, yet we embarked on this journey together in large part because we share a close connection to what some may call "God." I am a man of great faith, but I do not choose to affiliate myself with any known religion. Love.
Location:
I am a transplant Okie. I'm originally from Chicago (well, sort of...)
Interests:
I love drinking Spaten Optimator. There are far worse ways to hasten the degredation of one's organ systems.
Occupation:
Student of life

Yours:
Biography:
student of Life
Location:
USa
Interests:
Thinking
Occupation:
Research

But I'm probably wrong. Never mind

 

[spidergoat]

production is basic

but there is a specific wavelenngth and pressure to release H from water a little easier far more efficient than basic electrolysis. From there forward handle it just like natural gas.

Storage is basic. Heck they filled the Hindenberg with the stuff at a fraction of the cost of helium. (US controlled the market of He at the time)

Production is central to the issue. Where does the energy come from to produce it? If you are talking about the sonic wave method, that takes a great deal of energy too. It's not as easy to handle as natural gas, it is highly corrosive. To attain good energy density, it should be liquified, which is complex and dangerous, as well as taking more energy. Storage requires extremely high pressure vessals, which become heavy if not expensive. Learn a little bit about the physics of the problem before dismissing this as a mere political roadblock.

 

[Bishadi]

Production is central to the issue. Where does the energy come from to produce it? If you are talking about the sonic wave method, that takes a great deal of energy too. It's not as easy to handle as natural gas, it is highly corrosive. To attain good energy density, it should be liquified, which is complex and dangerous, as well as taking more energy. Storage requires extremely high pressure vessals, which become heavy if not expensive. Learn a little bit about the physics of the problem before dismissing this as a mere political roadblock.

do you know why i enjoy the german engineers?

because they think and care little for ignorance and media based thinking

Woodcliff Lake, NJ - BMW announces its latest milestone in its pursuit of the hydrogen future, the BMW Hydrogen 7 mono-fuel, featuring an internal combustion engine in the BMW Hydrogen 7 mono-fuel that produces near zero emissions while, at the same time, combusting ambient air pollutants. Based on the BMW Hydrogen 7 bi-fuel version (gasoline and hydrogen), the new mono-fuel vehicle's internal combustion engine is optimized to run solely on hydrogen and shares the performance, comfort, and safety qualities of every production BMW 7 Series. One of the BMW Hydrogen 7 mono-fuel vehicles is featured in the BMW Booth at the 2008 SAE World Congress being held this week in Detroit.

The BMW Hydrogen 7 mono-fuel is equipped with a 6.0-liter internal combustion engine (ICE) which has been engineered to run exclusively on hydrogen. This vehicle achieves near zero emissions, excellent engine performance, reduced fuel consumption and greater range compared to the bi-fuel Hydrogen 7. Since the consumed hydrogen has no carbon, the engine itself would produce no CO2, hydrocarbons, or other pollutants; however, the existing pollutants in the surrounding air are consumed by the engine, plus minute amounts of lubricating oil. The result is virtually undetectable exhaust emissions. New procedures for exhaust gas measurement and analysis, therefore, had to be developed together with experts at the Argonne National Laboratory, the only test laboratory in the USA capable of measuring such minute emissions.

"The mono-fuel Hydrogen 7 is the result of more than 25 years of hydrogen development by BMW," noted Tom Baloga, Vice-President of Engineering for BMW in the U.S. "It demonstrates BMW's support for a hydrogen infrastructure by producing an internal combustion engine that produces truly near-zero emissions while simultaneously cleaning the air of certain pollutants."

the vehicles already exist.............. but who cares? Right?


do you work for Chevron/Venti ......... the patent monsters?

 

[OilIsMastery]

Hydrocarbons are not only used for transportation fuel. They are used for everything. See the quote in response to the OP.

 

[Vkothii]

Hydrocarbons are not only used for transportation fuel. They are used for everything. See the quote in response to the OP.

The stuff we call "oil" indeed has many important uses. We would have run out of whales back in the 1930s or '40s if we hadn't started up the oil industry.

When it does start to really get scarce we better have a replacement technology for all those plastics and other materials we derive from it. You'd think we might stop and think, about how dumb is it, to just burn 97% of it, huh?

 

[OilIsMastery]

When it does start to really get scarce we better have a replacement technology for all those plastics and other materials we derive from it. You'd think we might stop and think, about how dumb is it, to just burn 97% of it, huh?

Good luck burning all the hydrogen and carbon in the universe...

 

[Vkothii]

A chrome-plated dipstick to add to the growing stash!

 

[Bishadi]

Good luck burning all the hydrogen and carbon in the universe...

as long as you have what yu need, than who cares about anyone else, right?



as it seems the ones too selfish to think are usually the ones in the closet deep in self abuse.


it seems in each point made;

burning Hydrogen is ICE's does work

that releasing Hydrogen for consumption is easy

and to have an off the grid system removing central control is as easy as learning and having a few of intelligence making a choice; is all that is neccessary...

but then again the complacent are as usual, the fools of ignorance

 

[spidergoat]

do you know why i enjoy the german engineers?

because they think and care little for ignorance and media based thinking



the vehicles already exist.............. but who cares? Right?


do you work for Chevron/Venti ......... the patent monsters?

It doesn't matter one bit that show vehicles exist. We aren't going to run our easy motoring utopia on anything besides oil, and that's coming to an end. People are under the delusion that Peak Oil is just a technological blip in the continuing flow of civilization and technology, but it's way more than that. You are being fooled by smoke and mirrors. Technology isn't energy.

What will power the hydrogen cracking plants?

Why would that be superior to electric trains, a technology that precedes the automobile?

 

[Bishadi]

It doesn't matter one bit that show vehicles exist.

Yes it did, the one item shares how ignorant your knowledge base is as well how little integrity you possess to admit you be a clown.

We aren't going to run our easy motoring utopia on anything besides oil, and that's coming to an end.

Hey i know; we in for a big war within months

Technology isn't energy.

but technology is what reveals lessons of knowledge; that pinnacle is when mass understands how it exists.

What will power the hydrogen cracking plants?

Solar, like mentioned in the body of this thread; but I do apologize, not only is your intellect short but the capacity to retain must also have a flaw.... let me guesss.... hmmmmmmmmmm....... yep........ PRIDE.

but if you like look up how in Iceland, a Chevron and now a Shell plant was set up to produce hydrogen via geothermal http://www.samkoma.com/cgi/links.pl.cgi?064

Why would that be superior to electric trains, a technology that precedes the automobile?

because electrical engines require maintaining central control; them days are to end

 

[spidergoat]

The days of independent motoring are going to end. The train will return because it's more efficient. Instead of using the limited electricity to be had from solar power to crack H and then cool it and transport it to a H filling station, it would be better to power electric motors directly. Even if you use solar heat to boil water and run a turbine, it's still better to use electricity.

Hydrogen cars will be disasterous in a crash, they aren't even allowed in some tunnels. This invention is basically like solving a heroin addict's problem by giving them morphine or opium instead. The basic disfunction is still there.

I don't blame you for believing the hype, everyone is sleepwalking into the future. They have no idea of the scale of the problem. Economies will collapse, leaving few with the cash to buy a million dollar hydrogen fantasy car.

 

[Nasor]

Hydrocarbons are not only used for transportation fuel. They are used for everything. See the quote in response to the OP.

Only about 15-16% of oil is used for things other than fuel. 64% is burnt as gasoline or diesel, and most of the remaining 20% is turned into various fuels like heavy heating oil, aviation fuel, etc. So yeah, we certainly do need oil for making plastics and whatnot, but the vast majority of it is used for fuel.

There are plenty of countries that get most or all of their energy from things other than fossil fuels (nuclear/hydro/geothermal/wind/whatever). Combine those with electric vehicles, and most oil use could be eliminated. We already have batteries that are good enough for use in electric cars with 100+ mile ranges, it's just a matter of waiting for the price to come down.

 

[Bishadi]

The days of independent motoring are going to end.

the days of centralized control will end first

The train will return because it's more efficient. Instead of using the limited electricity to be had from solar power to crack H and then cool it

Put a panel on the hood of your car or have it in the back yard, or on you roof.... but it is that centralization you are simply OK with

Hydrogen cars will be disasterous in a crash, they aren't even allowed in some tunnels. This invention is basically like solving a heroin addict's problem by giving them morphine or opium instead. The basic disfunction is still there.

that is what you are doing, following the rhetoric as if true. Hydrogen is far safer than gasoline; always has been.

Them tanks can be dropped from the moon and no break open and then when one cracked the burning is straight up, rather than leaking all over the place as to even maintain burning on the surface of water.

sorry but as you wing the dung, it is you in the mirror that is being mad stinky

I don't blame you for believing the hype, everyone is sleepwalking into the future. They have no idea of the scale of the problem. Economies will collapse,

and there is our proof positive..... "economies will collapse"

what do you think is occurring right now based on centralized oil being the crutch this globe is stuck on when in reality, this ignorance is being capitalized upon.

clown ...... please step away from the terminal as you are killing yourself with fibs that you know nothing about...

leaving few with the cash to buy a million dollar hydrogen fantasy car.

how can you say that?

first you said the ICE is not possible; and then i showed you

then you say we can't produce hydrogen easily for usage: and i showed you

and then you suggest that economies will be ruined by derailing oil and that is what they are doing to us right now as they reap the greatest profit margins the world has ever known all at the expense of the majority


and why.......... because of clowns like you!

speaking, writing and talking when they really have no freaking clue!

maybe we should open a thread sharing

'why ignorance is the root of how corruption continues'

 

[Bishadi]

did i not mention how even the little guy can HELP stop it?

call your congressman and tell him to start and support any bill that "will remove proprietary rights to any patent or process that is deamed a benefit to humanity, and is not being pursued"

with that one law, then progress can begin without the power of corp corruption being able to purchase and stop any company from raining on their parade

then we need to find a way to make people who make ignorance their nature responsible for talking/writing when they should be listening

then again, nature does have a rule: 'if yeeeee lying, yeeeee dying'

 

[spidergoat]

I'm not endorsing the view that oil should be considered the only alternative. Alternatives will be used, but it won't stop the coming catastrophe. Some environmentalists and well meaning people concerned with "green" issues are under just as much delusions as those that think the oil will last forever. Are solar panels economically viable? Not even if they were mass-produced, because they still don't produce much electricity, and batteries require an economic and industrial base that is predicated on oil. The hydrogen mantra is just as silly as the switchgrass and biodiesel fantasies. Oil is the accumulated energy of millions of years of sunlight, and we burned up about half of it in less than 100 years.

It's not smart to invest in hydrogen infrastructure only to fuel a way of life that is swiftly becoming obsolete. "But my house is an hour from my work, and I need to drive to the store for the smallest thing!" Correct, this is an example of our great mis-investment in suburbia. Suburbia is a one time anomaly driven by cheap oil. No technology can deliver the energy at the price as oil, and the price is becoming prohibitive. When cheap oil ends, we will not be able to grow our food hundreds of miles away, we will not be able to fertilize, or run tractors, or the factories that build the trucks and everything else we depend on. In this world, being able to buy a hydrogen car so we can continue as we have will be seen as unrealistic in the extreme.

 

[spidergoat]

Trains aren't "centralized control". Trains are an example of using economies of scale to make transportation more efficient.

 

[Bishadi]

well then it seems personal responsibilities will increase; which is the best policy in the first place. i.e... without grocery stores most would starve all because of the machine existing or capatalistic centralization.

the hydrogen usage allows decentralization to combine with personal responsibility

and it seems best to offer the knowledge for people to be individual versus centrally reliant.

ie.... if another so called asteroid hit us (all hypothetical).. which is best, having people that can continue based on knowledge equal to each and capable to sustain living

or to have a world on people living on easy street but unable to tie their shoes because now a mechanism can do that and even wipe your behind...

or simply the happiest people are responsible, reliable and contribute to each other for life.

not the goofs who think they have everything and too bored to do anything other than have fun

 

[Bishadi]

Trains aren't "centralized control". Trains are an example of using economies of scale to make transportation more efficient.

the thread is about the ignorance of oil, now you trying to share an example of an existing system of product transportation

you were trying to suggest that we become borg to the centralized system of mobility, versus having individual freedoms of the auto

don't be side stepping your responsibility to your suggestion

you may not understand the term judgment and think it is god related, but sorry.......... that is what we all do and will equally be capable of

with UNDERSTANDING

you be certain you are being judged..... during every post!

 

[spidergoat]

Decentrilization is the problem. Ignoring the traditional construct of the community is causing massive waste of energy, forcing us to drive miles to the nearest store. In dense communities, people could walk more, and everything was accessible. The cult of the individual is synonymous with cheap oil. Hydrogen storage isn't cheap or sustainable, it's not within the scope of the home mechanic, it's impractical. You are trying to figure out how to run our cars on Something Else, which ignores the basic problem.

 

[OilIsMastery]

we certainly do need oil

I agree.

There are plenty of countries that get most or all of their energy from things other than fossil fuels

There is no such thing as fossil fuels.