Who designed the designer?

[Write4U]

In other words when you die you(consciousness) don't

That is not what he proposes. Consciousness is an emergent product of the dynamic mental patterns, but when the brain dies, those patterns disappear and consciousness along with it.

 

[davewhite04]

That is not what he proposes. Consciousness is an emergent product of the mental patterns, but when the brain dies, those patterns disappear and consciousness along with it.

Exactly, I think he has it backwards. How can YOU die?

The YOU that guides you home when you have had too much to drink, you never remember how you got home. Ask most people in my home town if they've experienced "auto-pilot" they'll say yes.

EDIT: We drink a lot.

 

[Write4U]

Exactly, I think he has it backwards. How can YOU die?

Just like the dead beetle, there is no difference in molecular content, your dynamic (living) pattern stops operating and becomes a static (dead) pattern. That's how you die and your pattern starts disintegrating.

In your scenario, we'd end up with ghosts.......

 

[davewhite04]

Just like the dead beetle, there is no difference in molecular content, your dynamic (living) pattern stops operating and becomes a static (dead) pattern. That's how you die and your pattern starts disintegrating.

In your scenario, we'd end up with ghosts.......

No such thing as ghosts, well not according to Scooby Doo(god)....

 

[davewhite04]

Just like the dead beetle, there is no difference in molecular content, your dynamic (living) pattern stops operating and becomes a static (dead) pattern. That's how you die and your pattern starts disintegrating.

The only way I can prove it is you remembering me saying "i told you so!"

 

[Write4U]

Exactly, I think he has it backwards. How can YOU die?

The YOU that guides you home when you have had too much to drink, you never remember how you got home. Ask most people in my home town if they've experienced "auto-pilot" they'll say yes.

EDIT: We drink a lot.

For that answer you need to check out Stuart Hameroff. He is an anesthesiologist and knows how to render a brain (the person) unconscious. He explains the auto-pilot and why that is part of the subconscious memory function.
He explains in detail how the brain is divided into three compartments (patterns), only one of which is conscious. The other two are subconscious patterns, mainly dedicated to information processing and internal control functions.

The conscious pattern has an emergent sense of independence from the physical body, but that's not really how it works. Independent awareness is an illusion which disappears along with consciousness.

 

[DaveC426913]

Ask most people in my home town if they've experienced "auto-pilot" they'll say yes.

This is technically known as Philosophical Zombiism.

But I'm not sure what it has to do with after-death experience.

 

[davewhite04]

For that answer you need to check out Stuart Hameroff. He is an anesthesiologist and knows how to render a brain (the person) unconscious. He explains the auto-pilot and why that is part of the subconscious memory function.
He explains in detail how the brain is divided into three compartments (patterns), only one of which is conscious. The other two are subconscious patterns, mainly dedicated to information processing and internal control functions.

The conscious pattern has an emergent sense of independence from the physical body, but that's not really how it works. Independent awareness is an illusion which disappears along with consciousness.

We can agree to disagree

 

[davewhite04]

This is technically known as Philosophical Zombiism.

But I'm not sure what it has to do with after-death experience.

It doesn't. But how can you get home, drunk as a skunk, no help and question how you got home last night? If it hasn't happened to you then it will seem explainable away by science easily enough. If you look at it from my perspective. I know we are made of at least 2 components. Body, Soul and maybe it's the spirit that would explain this, I just haven't accepted that yet.

 

[DaveC426913]

It doesn't. But how can you get home, drunk as a skunk, no help and question how you got home last night? If it hasn't happened to you then it will seem explainable away by science easily enough.

It's got a technical name because it's quite common. Most people are have experienced P-zombiism.

When our higher brain functions are inattentive, we are quite capable of navigating familiar routes, without our higher brain storing the experience in our memory. When we get home, we don't recall the trip. But that's an artifact of memory storage.

There is nothing that remotely hints of supernaturalism.

For details, read up on P-zombiism.

 

[spidergoat]

God may of designed an alien who designs planets with life.

That's no different and no more credible than saying god designed human life directly. God doesn't explain genesis, since the need to explain god remains.

 

[DaveC426913]

grgmblrmmblrbrrr

< rant class="nazi" style="grammar" >

it's God may have
not God may of

< /rant >

 

[Write4U]

Everyone realizes that all physical objects (designs) consist of three particles. Three points make a triangle, the fundamental design of all designs, a fractal. The rest is just complexity.

No designer is neccessary, The design is always a naturally self-forming pattern, resulting in self-similar patterns like polymers which encode the growth patterns for subsequent pattern forming......

It's simple and requires no intelligence or motive! Reality is an emergent phenomena of dense patterns in various states of density.

 

[iceaura]

We perceive via mathematics, often - build virtual sensory organs. Hence the connection many people feel between math and the arts.
How that would create the reality it reveals I don't see.

 

[Write4U]

We perceive via mathematics, often - build virtual sensory organs. Hence the connection many people feel between math and the arts.
How that would create the reality it reveals I don't see.

First, we don't create reality except our own personal experience of reality.

But I agree it is our ability to perceive patterns that tells us there is a reality independent of our observation.
How we see it, is by consensus, by agreement. This is part of the mirror neural system in the brain, IMO.
Our ability to identify with someone elses' personal experience.....empathy.

But in all cases; "Nature is the teacher of the Arts" (and sciences). "Natura Artis Magistra".

 

[davewhite04]

That's no different and no more credible than saying god designed human life directly. God doesn't explain genesis, since the need to explain god remains.

Of course not, I mean replace aliens with Santa. Replace god with a lollipop. Just an idea, an idea that has more sense to it then Santa. It's a process of elimination, if that didn't... and that did. It goes on, we'll not know until the final act.

 

[davewhite04]

It's got a technical name because it's quite common. Most people are have experienced P-zombiism.

When our higher brain functions are inattentive, we are quite capable of navigating familiar routes, without our higher brain storing the experience in our memory. When we get home, we don't recall the trip. But that's an artifact of memory storage.

There is nothing that remotely hints of supernaturalism.

For details, read up on P-zombiism.

So why does the brain choose to do this "auto pilot", how does it know that it needs it? and what about unfamiliar ways home?

 

[wegs]

From a spiritual perspective, most would believe that the Designer didn't ''need'' designing, it just exists. The beginning and the end. Hard to comprehend from a non-spiritual sense.

 

[Write4U]

So why does the brain choose to do this "auto pilot", how does it know that it needs it? and what about unfamiliar ways home?

The brain is an awesome biological machine. It does not need to be conscious for it to exert control over every electro-chemical reaction in your body.

Why You Cannot Remember What You Did While You Were Drunk
Alcoholic blackout doesn't mean passing out. It means wiping out memory.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ot-remember-what-you-did-while-you-were-drunk

i.e. you are not unconscious, you just never created a memory of getting home. Similar to closing your wordprocessor without saving the document. A blank, eerie stuff....

As I said two critical parts of the brain work subconsciously. Ask yourself how does the brain regulate everything in our body. Most of it is subconscious and would still work if you were unconscious such as being under anesthesia.

If you need a regulator (soul), IMO, that's where you will find it, in the subconscious part, which functions independently from your conscious brain. But it does not survive catastrophic injury or death of the brain

The interesting part is that all brained animals respond to the same anesthetics and the same strength ratios, which would suggest close relationship in structure, a common origin of brained mammals.

 

[Write4U]

From a spiritual perspective, most would believe that the Designer didn't ''need'' designing, it just exists. The beginning and the end. Hard to comprehend from a non-spiritual sense.

IMO, that is not so hard to comprehend, if taken as a non-spiritual mathematical potential of space-time. An abstract, implacable self-referential organizing function.

The problem comes in when assigning a motivated intelligence to this universal mathematical function. IOW, the problem arises, when you do take it in a spiritual sense. Where does that come from?
i.e. who designed the spiritual entity? And why does it need purpose?