The law, that prevents the ball from crumbling.
Where does the embryo store the memory of the development of the whole organism into a single system?
- Thread starter Olga
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exchemist
Valued Senior Member
The system is not the laws. The system is an object. The laws are abstract relationships to account for its behaviour.
Can you explain why chemical reactions in the embryo's body form it in a certain way, rather than randomly?
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
Yes. It’s the transcription process from DNA to RNA to proteins, which you can look up very easily on the internet. It’s complicated biochemistry but it is well understood.Here is a simplified explanation, but it is in English:https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zvsmd6f/revision/6
And how does the embryo know that there should be an arm here, and a leg here, or a tail?
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
You need to read the first link I provided, or its Russian equivalent, if there is one.
This part: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organogenesis
I've read. There is no answer to my question.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
Then read around some more. I can’t do all your thinking for you.
You just don't like the answer.
Нет, его там просто нет. Там описывается в какой последовательности какой орган формируется. А меня интересует, каким образом эмбрион знает эту последовательность. У него же нет мозга. И он не похож на 3D принтер.
It describes the sequence of organ formation, and I'm interested in how the embryo remembers this sequence.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
"Remember" is the wrong word. There is no mind at work here. The DNA has the set of instructions: chemical instructions. I've already told you this, in posts 4 and 24.
The links I have provided (and the comments from Pinball1970 ) point out that various genes, i.e. sequences of the DNA code, are activated by a complex set of chemical signals, once the axis of the animal has been established (i.e. which is the head end and which the tail end). This is described in the links, if you read them thoroughly, though you may need to follow up for yourself some processes that are not spelt out in full in the articles.
Do not imagine there is a simple, one paragraph, description of the whole thing; it is very complex, as Pinball1970 warned you. I do not pretend I know exactly how it works, not being an embryologist. But as a chemist I can follow the biochemistry reasonably well, given enough time.
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Everything you have described will not work without memory."Remember" is the wrong word. There is no mind at work here. The DNA has the set of instructions: chemical instructions. I've already told you this, in posts 4 and 24.
The links I have provided (and the comments from Pinball1970 ) point out that various genes, i.e. sequences of the DNA code, are activated by a complex set of chemical signals, once the axis of the animal has been established (i.e. which is the head end and which the tail end). This is described in the links, if you read them thoroughly, though you may need to follow up for yourself some processes that are not spelt out in full in the articles.
Do not imagine there is a simple, one paragraph, description of the whole thing; it is very complex, as Pinball1970 warned you. I do not pretend I know exactly how it works, not being an embryologist. But as a chemist I can follow the biochemistry reasonably well, given enough time.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
That is a very silly assertion and clearly is not supported by the facts.
But it’s clear now that you have been wasting my time throughout this discussion, having made up your mind in advance. You have evidently chosen the path of deliberate ignorance, like so many of the creationists I have had to deal with over the years. How disappointing.
So it’s back on Ignore for you.
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It requires information. Information is not the same as memory. I mean, you can store information in your memory (or in computer memory) but that is separate from the information itself.
Во первых - для хранения информации тоже нужна память, а во вторых - здесь мы видим ещё и систему, набор инструкций, который без памяти просто не сохранился бы.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
"Remember" is part of memory which is a function of a brain which a blastocyst does not have.
The cells have DNA which have genes that build proteins, the genes are turned on by gene regulation which is mediated via cell signalling.
It is complicated biochemistry and cell biology specific to embryology.
It is nothing to do with memory.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
You are getting stuck on labels. DNA contains the instructions for building an organism. Each cell divides, and takes the instructions with it.
Have you done any studying of what, exactly, DNA is?
If it's important to you to think that a memory is required to store information, then you can think of the DNA in each and every cell as a form of memory.
It's a terrible idea to think this way, because you will invariably apply the label of memory too literally, as (or if) you try to understand foetal development. Really, what you should do is dispense with the simple inaccurate labels, and just study how an organism actually develops from its germ cell, as Pinball1970 points out.
Я говорю о последовательности этапов развития эмбриона. Она в точности повторяет эволюцию развития человека. Я где то читала, что на каком то этапе у эмбриона даже имеется хвост, который потом исчезает.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Yes. That is all encoded in the DNA.
The question you have asked is basically an entire field called embryonic development. It is very complex, and not easily encapsulated in a few paragraphs. It would take many books to cover it.
It is not as simple as "Here is the gene that will make you 5'11". It is more like:
- these 5,000 genes - that you got from your parents - and that are in every single cell in your body - all work together to produce growth, among many other things.
- the cells in your bones get signals from some of the genes to divide and grow. Other cells, in your muscles, get signals from other genes to divide and grow.
- some of these genes remain dormant for a time, and are then activated by hormones from the pituitary gland at the onset of puberty, causing tissue/bone growth for a time.
- when the pituitary gland stops putting out growth hormones in your late teens, some of these other genes are activated, switching off the growth (cell division) phase, causing your height to plateau.
It is way, way more complicated than that but the key takeaway is that this is ongoing all the time by genes switching other genes on and off as you grow.
Your height, as just one example, is not fixed in your genes. It is a process, occurring over time, that is set in motion by - and mediated by - your genes, influenced by your life, through such things as nutrition.
How much research have you done? Do you have any specific questions that have come out of your reading on the subject?
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