What is the case against Evolution?

iceaura said:
Just in posting fraud videos from bullshit artists making bank on the ignorance of the American fundie.
Or do you have a transcript, something written down?
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You've obviously made your provocative assessments there. Move over to that other stamping ground please.
 
Q-reeus said:
You've obviously made your provocative assessments there. Move over to that other stamping ground please.
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Your bs videos are here. No reason to move -Besides, I promised to take apart anything written by your video scammers.
Got a transcript yet - anything at all written by those guys?
 
iceaura said:
Your bs videos are here. No reason to move -Besides, I promised to take apart anything written by your video scammers.
Got a transcript yet - anything at all written by those guys?
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Feeling especially pugnacious today? Note the red highlights. No need for a transcript - you 'know' it's all BS. End of story.
 
Q-reeus said:
No need for a transcript - you 'know' it's all BS.
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The transcript was not for my education, but for something to take apart - you issued the challenge, remember? I'm willing, and it won't take more than an amateur like me to do it, but I won't watch a video - life's too short.

And your predictable difficulty finding a transcript, or anything else written by those guys that someone can nail down and take apart, was a point worth making in itself.

Of course I know videos like that are bs - I haven't been living under a rock for fifty years.
 
iceaura said:
The transcript was not for my education, but for something to take apart - you issued the challenge, remember? I'm willing, and it won't take more than an amateur like me to do it, but I won't watch a video - life's too short.

And your predictable difficulty finding a transcript, or anything else written by those guys that someone can nail down and take apart, was a point worth making in itself.

Of course I know videos like that are bs - I haven't been living under a rock for fifty years.
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Ha ha ha. Note the current highlight. Yet you can waste I would estimate months of accumulated time spent in endless flaming posts with your usual protagonists over 'there'. Not biting.
 
— Ernest Schoffeniels (1973), Anti-Chance (pg. 4)
“Although very difficult to escape concepts and a vocabulary dedicated by usage, i.e. the ‘epistemological obstacle’ (Ѻ) of Bachelard (1938), the effort is certainly worthwhile. Biology can only enrich itself by abandoning a teleological or ‘finalist’ mode of thought. Elimination of finalist language is no loss for science because that which can be described in teleological terms can also be described effectively in other terms. The universal law of gravitation whose objective description (compare: subjective description) is sufficient in itself.
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Nothing is further gained by adding that the aim of the apple in quitting the tree is to reach the ground or that the aim of HCl is to neutralize NaOH. Moreover, the elimination of 'finalist language' avoids the importation into biology of unverifiable theological or metaphysical doctrines not acceptable by the scientific method and the use of explanatory concepts not current in physics or chemistry. ”
— Ernest Schoffeniels (1973), Anti-Chance (pg. 4)
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Examples of abiogenesis,
H2O, two fundamental chemical elements producing a fluid substance which has many potentials including being "necessary" in the formation of living organisms.
Just two chemicals, abundant in the universe.
Carbon,
Carbon is the 15th most abundant element in the Earth's crust, and the fourth most abundant element in the universe by mass after hydrogen, helium, and oxygen. Carbon's abundance, its unique diversity of organic compounds, and its unusual ability to form polymers at the temperatures commonly encountered on Earth enables this element to serve as a common element of all known life. It is the second most abundant element in the human body by mass (about 18.5%) after oxygen.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon

Three elements which are "necessary and sufficient" for being used during the emergence of "living" things.
All living things have at least these three elements as common denominators in their patterns of expression.

As all three elements are abundant and extremely versatile in bonding abilities, an exponential multiplier creates a near infinite amount of variety, including "living" varieties, dependent on further evolution of complex patterns from other available chemicals .

The thing is that all stages of emergent life are demonstrably available in fossils and in current inventory.
How many creepy, crawly, oozing, slimey, horrific creatures can you imagine that you cannot find in nature (at small scales).
Life is so abundant that living things have been born a died in astronomical numbers on this planet alone. Is it possible that earth is just another source of panspermia? We've got a good part of the universe as a "sufficient" source for a "necessary" deterministic causality....:rolleyes:

How Do Microorganisms Reproduce?

and a "space-traveller"?
 
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And this may be be of interest;
Alright, so we've learned a lot about the origin of life. We learned about how the first organic molecules can have formed spontaneously, and how they might have assembled into the first protocell. From there, endosymbiotic theory tells us how these merged to form more complex eukaryotic cells. But these are still organisms made of one cell. Animals like humans are made of trillions of cells. So how did life make the big leap from one cell to many cells? To answer this, it is helpful to look at embryonic development, because the way one cell eventually becomes an entire animal can tell the story of how life stumbled upon this possibility in the first place. Crazy stuff!
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Write4U said:
Examples of abiogenesis,
H2O, two fundamental chemical elements producing a fluid substance which has many potentials including being "necessary" in the formation of living organisms.
Just two chemicals, abundant in the universe.
Carbon, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon

Three elements which are "necessary and sufficient" for being used during the emergence of "living" things.
All living things have at least these three elements as common denominators in their patterns of expression.

As all three elements are abundant and extremely versatile in bonding abilities, an exponential multiplier creates a near infinite amount of variety, including "living" varieties, dependent on further evolution of complex patterns from other available chemicals .
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H, O and C are not remotely "sufficient" for the emergence of life. All you can make from these are acids, alcohols, esters and carbohydrates.

What elements are there in an amino acid?

What elements are there in ATP?

What elements are there in RNA?

What elements are there in chlorophyll?

Have you ever heard of an iron-sulphur cluster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron–sulfur_cluster ?
 
exchemist said:
H, O and C are not remotely "sufficient" for the emergence of life. All you can make from these are acids, alcohols, esters and carbohydrates.

What elements are there in an amino acid?

What elements are there in ATP?

What elements are there in RNA?

What elements are there in chlorophyll?

Have you ever heard of an iron-sulphur cluster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron–sulfur_cluster ?
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I am afraid he is gonna answer by repeating the same things over and over (his overall knowledge in biology is likely poor). He is not willing to learn or consider anything that contradicts his ideas.
He just hijacks every thread to aggressively promote his new age/mineralogy/creative power of chemistry/quasi-intelligent pseudoscientific woohoo, by repeating the same things over and over
 
exchemist said:
H, O and C are not remotely "sufficient" for the emergence of life. All you can make from these are acids, alcohols, esters and carbohydrates.
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I did not say that these were the "only sufficient" chemicals necessary.

Please note : "Three elements which are "necessary and sufficient" for being used during the emergence of "living" things. All living things have at least these three elements as common denominators in their patterns of expression".

If that is not clear, it is my fault. Sorry.
 
Write4U said:
I did not say that these were the "only sufficient" chemicals necessary.

Please note : "Three elements which are "necessary and sufficient" for being used during the emergence of "living" things. All living things have at least these three elements as common denominators in their patterns of expression".

If that is not clear, it is my fault. Sorry.
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What you mean, then, is necessary but NOT sufficient.

Necessary and sufficient means you do not need anything else.
 
globali said:
I am afraid he is gonna answer by repeating the same things over and over (his overall knowledge in biology is likely poor). He is not willing to learn or consider anything that contradicts his ideas.
He just hijacks every thread to aggressively promote his new age/mineralogy/creative power of chemistry/quasi-intelligent pseudoscientific woohoo, by repeating the same things over and over
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Yes the constant hijacking and preaching gets a bit tiresome, doesn't it? When I want a bit of a rest from it I put him on Ignore for a while.
 
DaveC426913 said:
View attachment 2671
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Thanks, that's beginning to look like a comprehensive library of natural phenomena.

These potentials are not mutually exclusive.
globali said:
I am afraid he is gonna answer by repeating the same things over and over (his overall knowledge in biology is likely poor). He is not willing to learn or consider anything that contradicts his ideas.
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Ok, teach me something which is not controversial. Religion has been hijacking science for 3000 years. Give it a break, will you?
 
exchemist said:
Brilliant!

P.S. How long did you spend creating that, you sad bastard? :biggrin:
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:D
A mere fraction of the amount of time I've spent being subjected to it.

It's automation at its finest. W4U posts a limited set of boiler plate phrases, I post a limited set of boiler plate responses, but now it only takes me 15 seconds.
 
exchemist said:
What you mean, then, is necessary but NOT sufficient.

Necessary and sufficient means you do not need anything else.
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Read it again......and think about what it says this time.....please.

"Three elements which are "necessary and sufficient" for being used during the emergence of "living" things.

All living things have at least these three elements as common denominators in their patterns of expression"

Where does it say "only"?
 
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