What is Islam?
- Thread starter Mrs.Lucysnow
- Start date
Nah. for me it matters. I like to correct my mistakes.
Uh, I don't actually see why despotism can't be used instead of fascism - fascism is seemingly a form of despotism, no?...but anyway, you seem to be implying that the whole of Israel is fascistic, maybe that was the point with which people didn't agree?
Uh, I don't actually see why despotism can't be used instead of fascism - fascism is seemingly a form of despotism, no?...but anyway, you seem to be implying that the whole of Israel is fascistic, maybe that was the point with which people didn't agree?
The thread title was Israel goes fascist - Lieberman to the fore!
But yeah, maybe the entire state is fascist as this woman watching the Gaza attacks defines herself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjw8U0AcH4Q
So what? We're not allowed to say it?
kinda reminds me of a story of a guy who had the other end of his large intestines pumped up and ready to blow(i don't know what it's called but it's removed surgically).. the guy spent more than an hour in the lobby of a prestigious hospital which didn't let him in because he didn't have the papers(money or otherwise), and so he rolled on the floor there till it popped.
or the pregnant women who was so close to delivery but for some bureaucratic ass reason she wasn't let in, so she took a taxi to another hospital and had her baby in the back seat...
who knew becoming a taxi drivers would make you save lives?
yeah, don't let me get started either
..i might get a look at that documentary after i finish the first one..
Hmm, no under normal circumstances your topic would pass, but like I hinted on earlier, it was only logical that people would take your word choice as a provocation and get offended and they'd go on a rant, and a flame war would break out. The reactions were "predictable".
So some people have a greater right to be offended than others because of what they read into it? If you read the thread, the discussion was pretty standard, for sciforums.
Especially if you see discussions like this which no one has ever curtailed:
The Palestinians killed their own children
Is Muslim Mentality Psychologically Disordered?
How it is like to have a Muslim in your Family ?
Note that this was the same time when members were roundly banned for making pejorative comments about Jews.
People have been permanently banned from sciforums for saying bad things about Jews. Has anyone been permanently banned for saying bad things about Christians? Muslims? Atheists?
Especially if you see discussions like this which no one has ever curtailed:
The Palestinians killed their own children
Is Muslim Mentality Psychologically Disordered?
How it is like to have a Muslim in your Family ?
Note that this was the same time when members were roundly banned for making pejorative comments about Jews.
People have been permanently banned from sciforums for saying bad things about Jews. Has anyone been permanently banned for saying bad things about Christians? Muslims? Atheists?
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Like I said..it's a moderation issue. Can do little to nothing about it..well we could address it and nominate a moderator who is renowned for his rather neutral approach on these subjects to become the main moderator of such topics/threads..
Did anyone ever directly confront James_R with this issue? Just wondering..(am not really updated with Sciforum drama)
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
kinda reminds me of a story of a guy who had the other end of his large intestines pumped up and ready to blow(i don't know what it's called but it's removed surgically).. the guy spent more than an hour in the lobby of a prestigious hospital which didn't let him in because he didn't have the papers(money or otherwise), and so he rolled on the floor there till it popped.
or the pregnant women who was so close to delivery but for some bureaucratic ass reason she wasn't let in, so she took a taxi to another hospital and had her baby in the back seat...
who knew becoming a taxi drivers would make you save lives?
yeah, don't let me get started either
i might get a look at that documentary after i finish the first one..
Its a pretty intense documentary from the standpoint of having to listen to the priest so beware.
I'm not sure how you tie in the medical stuff with what I was saying but yeah its a contradiction
Like the woman who was admitted to the emergency room, was laying in the bed and everything. She layed there screaming in pain as nurses walked by her with better things to do until she died, this was in california I believe and they closed down the hospital. I mean what's the point right? What's the point in having a priest who will teach you about god and then diddle your child after giving him the eucharist?What's the point in having someone cry racism and then denies that they characterize others in a racist fashion? :shrug:
Ah? Where does he state that?
Thats the general picture I get from his comments when I ask him questions:
Inconsistency in Religion and other forums
All threads on Gaza closed?
Hate Speech on Sciforums
Joos, Islamofascist and other generalisations
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Psychotropicpuppy: I will not disagree with you on this. We surely could find a compromise. The only issue I see is to get every user to follow it, because as we know opinions may widely differ. There will always be a bias concerning the monitoring of the topics in question. I've noticed this in every forum I've ever joined. So I take it that it's the modding attitude of moderators that is in question because they're the ones who can control what has the right to stay in the forums and what not.
Well it doesn't need a compromise it needs an understanding of what it means to have some respect especially if you demand it for yourself. The thing is that if someone doesn't recognize their own bias, bitterness or bigotry then they will feel victimized and not realize that they are creating their own opposition. Sam thinks its because she says 'jew' not realizing its how she consistently characterizes all jews. Like saying that Israel speaks for all jews for example which i poppycock.
Psychotropicpuppy: That's nice and all, but why did the poster just mention Muslims then?
They didn't it was a picture of a neon billboard on a restaurant.
Psychotropicpuppy: the thread about Judaism was passable
Really? You mean comments like this:
SAM: "Well if you put your kids in a gas chamber and walked away, you betcha I would demonise you. If you went ahead and made olia to someone elses land and decided you had a right to it because of what you survived I'd probably have you euthanised."
Or this:
SAM: Done, still cannot fathom the tribalism of Jews and why they have this whole paranoia thing going.
SAM: "You'd think most of them would be intelligent enough to see how self defeating it is to be pluralistic outside and ethnocentric at home, kind of a cultural schizophrenia. So what keeps so many of them inside the clutches of a failed model of tribal identity?"
Or this:
SAM: "Some of them even put their own wives and kids on the trains to the gas chambers, thats how loyal they were."
Now psychotropicpuppy you can go back and look at the context in which it was written and tell me that this was not blatantly being offensive. Why didn't she mention all the jews who tried to help each other survive the camps as a way of understanding their 'tribalism'? There were no positive examples. Go and look for yourself it was pure antisemitism under the guise of 'intellectual inquiry'.
Well it doesn't need a compromise it needs an understanding of what it means to have some respect especially if you demand it for yourself. The thing is that if someone doesn't recognize their own bias, bitterness or bigotry then they will feel victimized and not realize that they are creating their own opposition. Sam thinks its because she says 'jew' not realizing its how she consistently characterizes all jews. Like saying that Israel speaks for all jews for example which i poppycock.
Psychotropicpuppy: That's nice and all, but why did the poster just mention Muslims then?
They didn't it was a picture of a neon billboard on a restaurant.
Psychotropicpuppy: the thread about Judaism was passable
Really? You mean comments like this:
SAM: "Well if you put your kids in a gas chamber and walked away, you betcha I would demonise you. If you went ahead and made olia to someone elses land and decided you had a right to it because of what you survived I'd probably have you euthanised."
Or this:
SAM: Done, still cannot fathom the tribalism of Jews and why they have this whole paranoia thing going.
SAM: "You'd think most of them would be intelligent enough to see how self defeating it is to be pluralistic outside and ethnocentric at home, kind of a cultural schizophrenia. So what keeps so many of them inside the clutches of a failed model of tribal identity?"
Or this:
SAM: "Some of them even put their own wives and kids on the trains to the gas chambers, thats how loyal they were."
Now psychotropicpuppy you can go back and look at the context in which it was written and tell me that this was not blatantly being offensive. Why didn't she mention all the jews who tried to help each other survive the camps as a way of understanding their 'tribalism'? There were no positive examples. Go and look for yourself it was pure antisemitism under the guise of 'intellectual inquiry'.
huh? maybe showing the picture would be welcome..because I kind of feel like lost in translation when one says that it says something about muslims, and the other doesn't. :bugeye:
Yeah, really. The OP was okay, but the following posts filled with hostility were not okay. Everybody implied or accused her of being an anti-Semite for asking simple questions that were not in the slightest anti-Semitic. Towards the end though a few of her comments leave a lot of room for interpretation, but after having been subjected to criticism since the opening of the thread I guess that was to be expected, but wasn't the best course of action to take since people seem to have little to no faith in the nature of her intentions.
Since I like to give people the benefit of doubt I think that she was kidding, plus she explicitly pointed out that she was referring to GeoffP, the part which you surprisingly removed. Though granted ..it leaves a lot of space for interpretation.
She does have a sharp tongue. It being of anti-Semitic nature - that's just you speculating.
So, lets make an appeal to S.A.M.'s honesty - S.A.M. were you trying to be anti-Semitic? Did you purposefully leave that much room for interpretation? If so, why?
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Psychotropicpuppy: huh? maybe showing the picture would be welcome..because I kind of feel like lost in translation when one says that it says something about muslims, and the other doesn't.
I don't have it anymore. Think of a restaurant sign that has a neon pig on it, the name of the restaurant suggests pork is the speciality. So they have the name and below in block letters, like you see at the movie theatre, was 'we don't serve muslims'.
Psychotropicpuppy: Yeah, really. The OP was okay, but the following posts filled with hostility were not okay. Everybody implied or accused her of being an anti-Semite for asking simple questions that were not in the slightest anti-Semitic.
If you know how Sam twists things then you know it is only a matter of time before she makes comments like the ones she had made. The whole topic is eventually diverted towards her agenda (israel, whatever flaw she can find in a jew, american imperialism, atheism (eg Israel beginning with atheist jews) etc. The topic wasn't sincere from the start because we already know what she thinks of jews. She wasn't asking a simple question and when the question was answered by spidergoat which is to say that jews believe in many different things, practice in many different ways, it didn't take long before she raised the Kapos and offering ones children to the nazis benefitting the nazis. If someone started a thread suggesting there was something wrong with muslims because they offer their children up for martyrdom, suicide bombing and the like she would be offended. If someone questioned their morality she would be offended. I understand why you think you need to defend her, I also used to defend her and thought everyone was just 'picking' on her because she was a muslim until I got to see it for myself, over and over and over again. People are hostile towards her bigotry not towards her. There are other muslims on this board who do not raise the red flag.
Psychotropicpuppy: Since I like to give people the benefit of doubt I think that she was kidding, plus she explicitly pointed out that she was referring to GeoffP, the part which you surprisingly removed. Though granted ..it leaves a lot of space for interpretation.
I told you to go back and see her comments in context. I didn't read it as if she was kidding. Where is the irony or humor in this comment exactly?
"Well if you put your kids in a gas chamber and walked away, you betcha I would demonise you. If you went ahead and made olia to someone elses land and decided you had a right to it because of what you survived I'd probably have you euthanised."
Where? You seem capable of the benefit of the doubt so please enlighten me.
Psychotropicpuppy: She does have a sharp tongue. It being of anti-Semitic nature - that's just you speculating. So, lets make an appeal to S.A.M.'s honesty - S.A.M. were you trying to be anti-Semitic? Did you purposefully leave that much room for interpretation? If so, why?
We have had sharper tongues in this forum and believe me no one ever thought them a racist or bigot. I am not speculating that she hates jews I am saying she proves over and over that she hates jews. Why the obsession with them? Why say that Israel speaks for all Jews? Why start yet another upon another thread on jews?
You can ask her whatever you like but you won't get an honest answer if you get her to answer at all. She loves to avoid pointed questions by diverting the issue or by answering the question with another question.
I don't have it anymore. Think of a restaurant sign that has a neon pig on it, the name of the restaurant suggests pork is the speciality. So they have the name and below in block letters, like you see at the movie theatre, was 'we don't serve muslims'.
Psychotropicpuppy: Yeah, really. The OP was okay, but the following posts filled with hostility were not okay. Everybody implied or accused her of being an anti-Semite for asking simple questions that were not in the slightest anti-Semitic.
If you know how Sam twists things then you know it is only a matter of time before she makes comments like the ones she had made. The whole topic is eventually diverted towards her agenda (israel, whatever flaw she can find in a jew, american imperialism, atheism (eg Israel beginning with atheist jews) etc. The topic wasn't sincere from the start because we already know what she thinks of jews. She wasn't asking a simple question and when the question was answered by spidergoat which is to say that jews believe in many different things, practice in many different ways, it didn't take long before she raised the Kapos and offering ones children to the nazis benefitting the nazis. If someone started a thread suggesting there was something wrong with muslims because they offer their children up for martyrdom, suicide bombing and the like she would be offended. If someone questioned their morality she would be offended. I understand why you think you need to defend her, I also used to defend her and thought everyone was just 'picking' on her because she was a muslim until I got to see it for myself, over and over and over again. People are hostile towards her bigotry not towards her. There are other muslims on this board who do not raise the red flag.
Psychotropicpuppy: Since I like to give people the benefit of doubt I think that she was kidding, plus she explicitly pointed out that she was referring to GeoffP, the part which you surprisingly removed. Though granted ..it leaves a lot of space for interpretation.
I told you to go back and see her comments in context. I didn't read it as if she was kidding. Where is the irony or humor in this comment exactly?
"Well if you put your kids in a gas chamber and walked away, you betcha I would demonise you. If you went ahead and made olia to someone elses land and decided you had a right to it because of what you survived I'd probably have you euthanised."
Where? You seem capable of the benefit of the doubt so please enlighten me.
Psychotropicpuppy: She does have a sharp tongue. It being of anti-Semitic nature - that's just you speculating. So, lets make an appeal to S.A.M.'s honesty - S.A.M. were you trying to be anti-Semitic? Did you purposefully leave that much room for interpretation? If so, why?
We have had sharper tongues in this forum and believe me no one ever thought them a racist or bigot. I am not speculating that she hates jews I am saying she proves over and over that she hates jews. Why the obsession with them? Why say that Israel speaks for all Jews? Why start yet another upon another thread on jews?
You can ask her whatever you like but you won't get an honest answer if you get her to answer at all. She loves to avoid pointed questions by diverting the issue or by answering the question with another question.
PsychoTropicPuppy:
There was no problem with the thread opener, and the thread was left open for some time. The problem came when SAM went from her original, innocent-sounding query, to her real agenda for the thread, which was to demonise Jews. In particular, she proposed that all Jews would hand over their own children to the Nazis to be killed in order to save their own skins, or something similar. At that point, I closed the thread, since SAM had turned it into an anti-semitic tirade.
No. Absolutely wrong.
And they are also closed if they turn into hate-fests.
You mean people such as SAM? Yes. Good point.
It's not unusual to concentrate on the actions of moderators in order to avoid examining the actual issue that led to the moderation in the first place. Criticism of moderators most often comes from those sympathetic to the moderated poster's position, for obvious reasons. Everybody has a cheer squad. Moderators have a hard job because it is impossible to please everybody. Nobody whose post is edited or deleted or whose thread is locked is every happy about it, because if they had believed their behaviour in posting the offensive material was unacceptable or unjustified they presumably would not have posted it in the first place.
There was no problem with the thread opener, and the thread was left open for some time. The problem came when SAM went from her original, innocent-sounding query, to her real agenda for the thread, which was to demonise Jews. In particular, she proposed that all Jews would hand over their own children to the Nazis to be killed in order to save their own skins, or something similar. At that point, I closed the thread, since SAM had turned it into an anti-semitic tirade.
No. Absolutely wrong.
And they are also closed if they turn into hate-fests.
You mean people such as SAM? Yes. Good point.
It's not unusual to concentrate on the actions of moderators in order to avoid examining the actual issue that led to the moderation in the first place. Criticism of moderators most often comes from those sympathetic to the moderated poster's position, for obvious reasons. Everybody has a cheer squad. Moderators have a hard job because it is impossible to please everybody. Nobody whose post is edited or deleted or whose thread is locked is every happy about it, because if they had believed their behaviour in posting the offensive material was unacceptable or unjustified they presumably would not have posted it in the first place.
Here is the picture:
And Orleander's comment:
Orleander said:
Exactly and this is not just in this thread, but in most topics where I make mirror image arguments of arguments that are allowed to stand on sciforums. e.g. A thread I made to mirror the one on "my friends are turning religious, what should I do" ie a parody of it was shut down within 5 seconds when entitled, "my freinds are turning atheist, what should I do"
Exactly, I was referring to the individual not the group.
First you have to tell me what anti-semitism is. Because apparently saying anything negative about Jews or Israel or even posing questions about them is antisemitic, no matter how much evidence or facts you back it up with.
Here is the picture:
Wow. Nasty. I bet it would justify an attack by the Israelis.
It's kind of more when your outlook overrides reality, so that you deflect everything even conceivably negative about your group onto a persecuted other:
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2355775&postcount=126
Someone else did this once. Who was that guy?
