Muhlenberg
Registered Senior Member
This BMJ article argues, among other things, that a "moral case against voluntary choices to advance eugenic goals by individuals or couples has not been persuasively made."
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What is immoral about eugenics?
- Thread starter Muhlenberg
- Start date
I don't mind if we all have brilliant and beautiful babies who grow up to be geniuses, supermodels, and sports stars.
There is this little problem of who's going to pay for it all.
I suspect that, as usual, the rich will get the good stuff (designer babies) and the poor will have to make do. This will lead to a world in which certain people have all of the genetic, social, and monetary advantages, and other people have none of them. We're heading in that direction already; it will be worse when the rich are uniformly, genetically, more capable and brighter than the poor. The divide will become unbridgeable.
This will probably eventually lead to social revolution.
There is this little problem of who's going to pay for it all.
I suspect that, as usual, the rich will get the good stuff (designer babies) and the poor will have to make do. This will lead to a world in which certain people have all of the genetic, social, and monetary advantages, and other people have none of them. We're heading in that direction already; it will be worse when the rich are uniformly, genetically, more capable and brighter than the poor. The divide will become unbridgeable.
This will probably eventually lead to social revolution.
And the engineered individuals would still eventually come out on top. A genetically engineered human can look just like a normal so you can't just go out ank kill them all. Even if genocide was performed against them, some would leave their former life and go get bluecollared jobs. Then they have kids and their kids have kids.
Offspring carrying enhanced genes will do better in life. They will live longer and be able to breed later in life. They will have less sickness. Heck, they are beautyful people who get the best mates. In time, these genes are found in every human outside a few isolated populations. And nobody would even notice.
Offspring carrying enhanced genes will do better in life. They will live longer and be able to breed later in life. They will have less sickness. Heck, they are beautyful people who get the best mates. In time, these genes are found in every human outside a few isolated populations. And nobody would even notice.
In a revolution, it's easy to know who to attack. In a revolution, it's the beautiful who are raped.
A revolution (albeit, a successful one) where the non-engineered overthrow the engineered would succeed, since the good engineered genes would get mixed up in the population through breeding.
Besides, perhaps the aim of such a revolution would be to bring gene frequency back within naturally selected limits, rather than through unnatural selection.
A revolution (albeit, a successful one) where the non-engineered overthrow the engineered would succeed, since the good engineered genes would get mixed up in the population through breeding.
Besides, perhaps the aim of such a revolution would be to bring gene frequency back within naturally selected limits, rather than through unnatural selection.
It became our responsibility to selectively breed ourselves once we escaped the shackles of natural selection to avoid becoming a plague.
We totally dropped the ball on that, and in effect declared war on the planet earth.
What isn't immoral about dysgenics?
We totally dropped the ball on that, and in effect declared war on the planet earth.
What isn't immoral about dysgenics?
Its not that eugenics, or dysgenics for that matter is immoral. Our species lives just beyond the environments capacity for supporting it. This IS the euginics. Eugenics happens everywhere but we don't see it because it hides under the guise of changing politics, fashion, religion etc- all responses to changing environmental factors.
I think I've cited the example of eastern european Jewry before; Back in the middle ages, *everybody* was dirt poor. But the Jews, marginalized, were the poorest. Jewish groups in the area responded by providing a source for education in religious study, and social welfare. Smarter, more capable Jews stuck with it and spent their time studying talmud in small circles while the weaker ones became assimilated in exchange for the easier life. Flushing out the..genetic effluent.. resulted in a group of eastern europeans with an average IQ 20 points higher than the rest, and in some pockets, much more.
Why can't we see this kind of change today?
Well, its happening. The most moral and high minded will be the ones to exploit eugenics first because their beliefs spring from the same sort of immorality or subversiveness. In the future it will be considered immoral to bring somebody into this world with a genetic disorder or an brain that deviates from 'recommended genes', but somebody has to take that first step, light the torch and set the boundaries.
I think I've cited the example of eastern european Jewry before; Back in the middle ages, *everybody* was dirt poor. But the Jews, marginalized, were the poorest. Jewish groups in the area responded by providing a source for education in religious study, and social welfare. Smarter, more capable Jews stuck with it and spent their time studying talmud in small circles while the weaker ones became assimilated in exchange for the easier life. Flushing out the..genetic effluent.. resulted in a group of eastern europeans with an average IQ 20 points higher than the rest, and in some pockets, much more.
Why can't we see this kind of change today?
Well, its happening. The most moral and high minded will be the ones to exploit eugenics first because their beliefs spring from the same sort of immorality or subversiveness. In the future it will be considered immoral to bring somebody into this world with a genetic disorder or an brain that deviates from 'recommended genes', but somebody has to take that first step, light the torch and set the boundaries.
W
WildBlueYonder
Guest
whoever is first, it will ignite a "race" war; where China, Russia, India, Germany & the US try to out-perform, out-genius the rest. it will put pressure on the kids too, since they will be expected to "perform" to high level standards, the pressure will be intense.Xerxes said:In the future it will be considered immoral to bring somebody into this world with a genetic disorder or an brain that deviates from 'recommended genes', but somebody has to take that first step, light the torch and set the boundaries.
It already started in sports, were the old Soviet block use to & now China send all the kids through a sports academy to see who are athletically gifted, to go on to professiona livesl, ala Yao Ming.
see:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/yao_ming/
or
http://www.rediff.com/sports/2004/aug/29oly.htm
"The problem is not merely that there will be suspicion behind every medal, it is that sport will become simply entertainment," Cohen said. "Athletes will become more like animals bred for the race than human beings rising to the occasion".
But there might be a catch for the squeamish.
"Even if steroids were legal and available to everyone," Cohen adds, "wouldn't we see sports differently if we watched all the runners shoot up just before the gun went off?"
Next up; the math nerds, techno geeks, the univesal soldiers?
What is immoral about eugenics.:
It claims to be based on science, but is purely a ideological movement.
It claims to be based on science, but is purely a ideological movement.
The word Eugenics is wisely associated with the Nazi approach to it, which is a total disaster. Mention the word and to most people, images of death camps are what spring to mind.
I suggest that is the sole problem: I failt to see how deliberate choice of good genes for your son or daughter can be considered immoral - but theres always someone who will, and who will insist everyone else is dragged down to their pitiful level.
Lava
I suggest that is the sole problem: I failt to see how deliberate choice of good genes for your son or daughter can be considered immoral - but theres always someone who will, and who will insist everyone else is dragged down to their pitiful level.
Lava
Genetic engineering is in principle an extension of an already enjoyed privilege. If you’re a hardworking individual who’s earned a living at an above-average social stratum, then you’re as eligible to have your wealth utilized in any way you see fit as it is generally true to the middle-class. Government intervention on the individual level is of course in this respect democratically unacceptable.
There’s nonetheless an already accumulating substance to the socialist agenda. The current capitalist regime has given our societies overblown oligarchies that licitly pilot the states’ economies and in so doing entwine the world of tomorrow. The impeccability of this process makes it difficult to draw a line between what ordinary people like you and me consider seemly, and what is apparently inappropriate on the basis of ethics alone. The buildup of contempt amongst the grassroots at the present regime seems unavoidable.
There’s nonetheless an already accumulating substance to the socialist agenda. The current capitalist regime has given our societies overblown oligarchies that licitly pilot the states’ economies and in so doing entwine the world of tomorrow. The impeccability of this process makes it difficult to draw a line between what ordinary people like you and me consider seemly, and what is apparently inappropriate on the basis of ethics alone. The buildup of contempt amongst the grassroots at the present regime seems unavoidable.
Lava said:I suggest that is the sole problem: I failt to see how deliberate choice of good genes for your son or daughter can be considered immoral - but theres always someone who will, and who will insist everyone else is dragged down to their pitiful level.
Lava
There is a difference between chosing the right partner or a instutionalized program of selective breeding.
That you don't know what eugenics is?
litenup....if you really listen to your HEART you wont have to be told what is immoral, you'll NKOW. though it helps to also intellectually explore about it
all this shit about eugenics, which is a Nazi idea, though it was forerunner prior to actual 'Nazi movement'.......
what is being planned now is the manipulation of our very beings. for exmple, If anyone shows any energy, and dissent--well, just as it was in the USSR when people who challenged that system were diagnosed mentally ill and were forcibly hopitalized, so it is now going to be if the fukers at the top and their sheeple followers get their way
What this means is it'll be the poor, ESPECIALLY those with brown skin who will be on the front line for the injections, pills, etc "treatment"
next. consider the culture that is even considering this. it is currently destroying Nature. it is depending for its wealth on an arms industry. and they are currently using depleted uranium on innocent people in Iraq, as they have dont in Afghanistan, and are planningto do in Iran, etc etc. Deplted Uranium is nuclear radiation when it explodes, and severely pollutes siol, water, air, causing cancers, new forms of cancers, and monstrous deformities in unborn babies
It also doesn't warn its OWN soldiers about the dangers of DU, and when they become ill, and their babies are born deformed, are totally ignored by the military personell and government officialsm, who lie, deny, fabricate evidence etc
so, THEy are part and parcel with the very souless 'scientific' dream of a 'superior' race of 'designer babies'. the whole idea is EVIL and immoral, yes!
all this shit about eugenics, which is a Nazi idea, though it was forerunner prior to actual 'Nazi movement'.......
what is being planned now is the manipulation of our very beings. for exmple, If anyone shows any energy, and dissent--well, just as it was in the USSR when people who challenged that system were diagnosed mentally ill and were forcibly hopitalized, so it is now going to be if the fukers at the top and their sheeple followers get their way
What this means is it'll be the poor, ESPECIALLY those with brown skin who will be on the front line for the injections, pills, etc "treatment"
next. consider the culture that is even considering this. it is currently destroying Nature. it is depending for its wealth on an arms industry. and they are currently using depleted uranium on innocent people in Iraq, as they have dont in Afghanistan, and are planningto do in Iran, etc etc. Deplted Uranium is nuclear radiation when it explodes, and severely pollutes siol, water, air, causing cancers, new forms of cancers, and monstrous deformities in unborn babies
It also doesn't warn its OWN soldiers about the dangers of DU, and when they become ill, and their babies are born deformed, are totally ignored by the military personell and government officialsm, who lie, deny, fabricate evidence etc
so, THEy are part and parcel with the very souless 'scientific' dream of a 'superior' race of 'designer babies'. the whole idea is EVIL and immoral, yes!
Indeed, eugenics has nothing to do with improving the species. It is all about control over a population. You may think it is all nice and dandy that only the best genes will be selected, but YOU are not going to select them. A few people in control will select them for you and decide what is good for you. So, the question is really: are you feeling lucky? Will you, your loved ones, your family, your children, your neighbour fit within the parameters imposed by a system whose aim is it to exert control.
EXACTLY! because WHO is judging this? WHO is judging who the 'better designed' person is? The one who contributes to a system that is destroying Nature? who has lost any feeling, and doesn't even KNOW it?
the mindset which comes up with eugenics, designer babies, GM, etc is the same mindset that is totally devoid of ANy morals. who has truly lost contact with heart, feelings, SOUL
the DARKESt irony is that they dont KNOW this. they aren't even aware that they have no deep feeling. Yet from there they willy nilly go about putting everything 'right'
my fukin purpose before i snuff it, is to explore about this to the core, and in the exploring encourage others to also look closely at whats going on. OTHERWISE the danger is getting oeverwhelmingly suked into the spin of it. Next thing you know, t's YOU whose shoppin for the next new designer baby, while up the high street other babies are being farmed for the expensive organs......ther's no end to the horror the souless ones have planned for us if we let them have their way
the mindset which comes up with eugenics, designer babies, GM, etc is the same mindset that is totally devoid of ANy morals. who has truly lost contact with heart, feelings, SOUL
the DARKESt irony is that they dont KNOW this. they aren't even aware that they have no deep feeling. Yet from there they willy nilly go about putting everything 'right'
my fukin purpose before i snuff it, is to explore about this to the core, and in the exploring encourage others to also look closely at whats going on. OTHERWISE the danger is getting oeverwhelmingly suked into the spin of it. Next thing you know, t's YOU whose shoppin for the next new designer baby, while up the high street other babies are being farmed for the expensive organs......ther's no end to the horror the souless ones have planned for us if we let them have their way