What do you think: what exploded in pagers in Lebanon then?

ольга said:
How can we find out what objects were in space on those days, approximately above the area of the incident?
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You mean like satellites?
heavens-above.com is a site devoted to exactly that.
Login, pick a location of your choice and browse the list of satellites for a particular date and time.
 
DaveC426913 said:
But they wouldn't need satellite technology when the place is littered cell towers.
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Возможно, что то спровоцировало короткое замыкание в самих батареях? Какое-нибудь излучение? По словам очевидцев, перед тем как взорваться, все эти пейджеры и рации сильно нагрелись. Ну а солнечные батареи на крышах, или батареи в автомобилях никто и не проверял, это понятно.
Вы думаете, что такое излучение можно подать с сотовых вышек?
 
ольга said:
Do you think that such radiation can be emitted from cell towers?
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No.

The pagers receive a standard signal. They just wired the devices to explode when a certain call came in. (I don't know if it was the battoeries that exploded - based on the overheating - or whether the devices had explosives added.)

They even went the extra mile to display an emegency message, delaying the detonation until the user dismissed the message, thereby increasing the likelihood that the device would - not only go off when it was being carried - but when it was in the victim's face. Most injuries were to hands and face.

They sold them on the open market, so anyone could purchase them. Their attempts to target operatives seem to have been limited to jacking up the prices to lessen the number of civilians that took the hook, and lowered the prices to those whom they deemed desirable targets.

Some organizations are considering whether it constitutes a war crime, since there was little attempt to distinguish between civilian and military targets.

I do not vouch for the veracity of any of this info; it was all available in news articles I found.
 
Раз
DaveC426913 said:
No.

The pagers receive a standard signal. They just wired the devices to explode when a certain call came in. (I don't know if it was the battoeries that exploded - based on the overheating - or whether the devices had explosives added.)

They even went the extra mile to display an emegency message, delaying the detonation until the user dismissed the message, thereby increasing the likelihood that the device would - not only go off when it was being carried - but when it was in the victim's face. Most injuries were to hands and face.

They sold them on the open market, so anyone could purchase them. Their attempts to target operatives seem to have been limited to jacking up the prices to lessen the number of civilians that took the hook, and lowered the prices to those whom they deemed desirable targets.

Some organizations are considering whether it constitutes a war crime, since there was little attempt to distinguish between civilian and military targets.

I do not vouch for the veracity of any of this info; it was all available in news articles I found.
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Разве можно запрограммировать пейджер или рацию? Это же совсем простые устройства. Тем более солнечные батареи и электросамокаты.
 
M
DaveC426913 said:
No.

The pagers receive a standard signal. They just wired the devices to explode when a certain call came in. (I don't know if it was the battoeries that exploded - based on the overheating - or whether the devices had explosives added.)

They even went the extra mile to display an emegency message, delaying the detonation until the user dismissed the message, thereby increasing the likelihood that the device would - not only go off when it was being carried - but when it was in the victim's face. Most injuries were to hands and face.

They sold them on the open market, so anyone could purchase them. Their attempts to target operatives seem to have been limited to jacking up the prices to lessen the number of civilians that took the hook, and lowered the prices to those whom they deemed desirable targets.

Some organizations are considering whether it constitutes a war crime, since there was little attempt to distinguish between civilian and military targets.

I do not vouch for the veracity of any of this info; it was all available in news articles I found.
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My understanding is the pagers and walkie talkies had explosive inserted and that these were special consignments ordered by Hizbollah. I don’t think the general public would buy pagers these days, would they?
 
exchemist said:
M

My understanding is the pagers and walkie talkies had explosive inserted and that these were special consignments ordered by Hizbollah. I don’t think the general public would buy pagers these days, would they?
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Пейджеры часто используют в ресторанах или подобных им организациях, чтобы передать заказ поварам и официантам. А рации повспместно используют на стройках, например, или в службах охраны.
 
ольга said:
Once

Is it possible to program a pager or a walkie-talkie? These are very simple devices. Especially solar batteries and electric scooters.
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They can do whatever they want with them. Thy can swap out or add components. They can add explosives.
 
ольга said:
[And how were these devices activated? Have these pages and radios been used for two years?] А каким образом эти устройства были приведены в действие? Эти пейджеры и рации два года не использовались?
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Israel had total ability to redesign and refit the devices however they wanted. They were primarily using that advantage in the beginning to listen in on Hezbollah conversations. Given the latter capacity, the ability to also transmit a coded signal that would remotely activate the walkie-talkies and pagers to explode was just another optional feat of being the middleman controlling the very communications equipment that Hezbollah received.

2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks (excerpts): The Israeli intelligence agency Mossad had secretly manufactured and integrated the explosive PETN into the devices, and sold them to Hezbollah through a shell company.

[...] In 2015, Mossad began planting booby-trapped walkie-talkies in Lebanon, which secretly allowed Israel to monitor Hezbollah communications while holding the option to detonate them. For nine years, Israel limited its use of these devices to surveillance. However, in 2023, a new tactic emerged with the introduction of explosive-laden pagers which Hezbollah purchased not knowing that the pagers were booby-trapped.

[...] The New York Times reported that the Mossad operated BAC Consulting and created two other unnamed shell corporations to hide their involvement. The pagers produced for Hezbollah had batteries that integrated 3 grams (0.11 ounces) of the explosive PETN in such a way that it would have been extremely difficult to detect.

Israeli officials believe that Hezbollah did in fact disassemble the pagers for inspections, and may have even scanned them with x-rays, yet were unable to detect the explosive materials. The explosive could not be detected by an airport security check.

After the explosions, the Mossad claimed that the amount of explosives was carefully calibrated to injure only the person holding the pager and not harm people standing next to them. According to the Mossad, injuries were preferable to death, with the injured Hezbollah operatives serving as walking reminders to the organization not to "mess with [Israel]".
_
 
C C said:
Israel had total ability to redesign and refit the devices however they wanted. They were primarily using that advantage in the beginning to listen in on Hezbollah conversations. Given the latter capacity, the ability to also transmit a coded signal that would remotely activate the walkie-talkies and pagers to explode was just another optional feat of being the middleman controlling the very communications equipment that Hezbollah received.

2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks (excerpts): The Israeli intelligence agency Mossad had secretly manufactured and integrated the explosive PETN into the devices, and sold them to Hezbollah through a shell company.

[...] In 2015, Mossad began planting booby-trapped walkie-talkies in Lebanon, which secretly allowed Israel to monitor Hezbollah communications while holding the option to detonate them. For nine years, Israel limited its use of these devices to surveillance. However, in 2023, a new tactic emerged with the introduction of explosive-laden pagers which Hezbollah purchased not knowing that the pagers were booby-trapped.

[...] The New York Times reported that the Mossad operated BAC Consulting and created two other unnamed shell corporations to hide their involvement. The pagers produced for Hezbollah had batteries that integrated 3 grams (0.11 ounces) of the explosive PETN in such a way that it would have been extremely difficult to detect.

Israeli officials believe that Hezbollah did in fact disassemble the pagers for inspections, and may have even scanned them with x-rays, yet were unable to detect the explosive materials. The explosive could not be detected by an airport security check.

After the explosions, the Mossad claimed that the amount of explosives was carefully calibrated to injure only the person holding the pager and not harm people standing next to them. According to the Mossad, injuries were preferable to death, with the injured Hezbollah operatives serving as walking reminders to the organization not to "mess with [Israel]".
_
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Теперь они не смогут прослушивать их разговоры?
 
ольга said:
Теперь они не смогут прослушивать их разговоры?
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Certainly not the former way, now that the cat is dramatically out of the bag. But Israeli intelligence could have devised another method for accomplishing communications surveillance. If the latter, then that would have provided the extra incentive to sacrifice the devices via the explosions.
_
 
C C said:
Certainly not the former way, now that the cat is dramatically out of the bag. But Israeli intelligence could have devised another method for accomplishing communications surveillance. If the latter, then that would have provided the extra incentive to sacrifice the devices via the explosions.
_
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Эти рации могли и граждане Израиля купить. На стройках, например, рации используются повсеместно. Об этом никто не подумал?
 
ольга said:
Now they won't be able to listen in on their conversations?
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Not sure how useful it would be. Mostly what they'd be hearing is
"Oh Allah - my eyes!"
"Oh Allah - my hand has been blown off!"
(muffled) "He looks so peaceful, like he's sleeping. But in his best suit."
 
ольга said:
[These rivers could also buy the citizens of Israel. On construction sites, for example, radios are used everywhere. Did anyone think about that?] Эти рации могли и граждане Израиля купить. На стройках, например, рации используются повсеместно. Об этом никто не подумал?
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Well, again, Mossad supposedly claimed that the "explosive was carefully calibrated to injure only the person holding the pager and not harm people standing next to them".

Clearly they were relying on Hezbollah members to not give or sell the (used) compromised devices to outsiders. And if they were monitoring the conversations of each one, they might have been able to even discern occasionally if such a transaction had occurred, and thereby deactivate the applicable device.

The false reports on social media about solar panels, laptop computers, microwave ovens, etc exploding may well have been engineered by Mossad, too. To increase the mass panic and fear that Israel could magically detonate any electronic device.
_
 
C C said:
Well, again, Mossad supposedly claimed that the "explosive was carefully calibrated to injure only the person holding the pager and not harm people standing next to them".

Clearly they were relying on Hezbollah members to not give or sell the (used) compromised devices to outsiders. And if they were monitoring the conversations of each one, they might have been able to even discern occasionally if such a transaction had occurred, and thereby deactivate the applicable device.

The false reports on social media about solar panels, laptop computers, microwave ovens, etc exploding may well have been engineered by Mossad, too. To increase the mass panic and fear that Israel could magically detonate any electronic device.
_
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Ну, я тоже так подумала. Только без привлечения волшебства. Просто какие то новые технологии. Тем более нынешний ажиотаж вокруг лития наводит на определённые размышления.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Not sure how useful it would be. Mostly what they'd be hearing is
"Oh Allah - my eyes!"
"Oh Allah - my hand has been blown off!"
(muffled) "He looks so peaceful, like he's sleeping. But in his best suit."
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Теперь пейджеры станут лучше покупать в качестве подарков для экстемалов...
 
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