What constitutes privilege?

DaveC426913

DaveC426913

Valued Senior Member
First, a disclaimer: the question came to me in a dream (perhaps a waking dream, not sure). It is entirely hypothetical and academic. No real world agenda attached to it.

Let me set a generic scenario:

A company meeting is held about a holiday thank you card to all their clients. A cross-section of people are present - young, old, male, female, rich, poor, white, coloured, Christian, Muslim, etc.

The rich/old/white/WASP/guy stands up and says "I think a traditional Christmas card with Santa and Jesus is the best idea. I whipped up some designs to save us time."
The young/black/Muslim/girl says "That's not very inclusive."
OWWG says "Well, I've already made the designs, so..."

I submit this as my first draft of a prototypical example of privilege. The privilege was taken by the person who first decided that they had a bigger voice than others because (we presume) of their circumstance of being richer/older/whiter/Christianer/maler.


OK, compare with the person who says "I have been here twenty years. I think I have a bigger voice in what the holiday card should look like."

Is seniority just another form of privileged authority?

I found this definition:

Privilege is an unearned advantage or right granted to individuals or groups based on their social identity, such as race, gender, class, or sexual orientation.

I note that this definton of privilege does not include seniority.



As I write this, choosing my words carefully, I think I am groping toward an opinion: seniority in-and-of-itself can be privilege (i.e. unearned authority)

Privilege:
"I have been here twenty years - though I've never had anything to do with the Thank You cards. I should get a bigger voice because of my seniority."

Earned:
"I have been here twenty years and have been at twenty of these same meetings. I should get a bigger voice because of my expertise."


Thoughts?
 
My wife - who has decades of experience in Healthcare of the marginalized, and is currently taking Social Work classes - has a differing opinion.

It is causing some spicey couch conversation.

Her opinion is that privilege only occurs if it is accepted. i.e. the young girl challenging him in my prototype scenario is proving he does not have privilege.

I say the privilege occurs in his mind and in his actions, regardless of what follows.

An altermate example is a BMW driver blowing through a red light because he is rich and important and has a fast car.
I say he acted on his privilege. The only way to challenge him would be to refuse to yield, and crash into his car.

In my wife's scenario, I imagine the two of us standing next to our broken cars:
Me: "You privileged jerk. You blew through that stop light in your BMW. You could have gotten people killed."
He: "Ah. But I am not privileged, am I? You challenged me and showed I can't do that just because I want to."


I feel that the privilege is an attitude that caused him to think he owned the road, and blew through the light. The privilege occured the moment he acted, regardless of what happened after, regardless of whether he was challenged.
 
DaveC426913 said:
First, a disclaimer: the question came to me in a dream (perhaps a waking dream, not sure). It is entirely hypothetical and academic. No real world agenda attached to it.

Let me set a generic scenario:

A company meeting is held about a holiday thank you card to all their clients. A cross-section of people are present - young, old, male, female, rich, poor, white, coloured, Christian, Muslim, etc.

The rich/old/white/WASP/guy stands up and says "I think a traditional Christmas card with Santa and Jesus is the best idea. I whipped up some designs to save us time."
The young/black/Muslim/girl says "That's not very inclusive."
OWWG says "Well, I've already made the designs, so..."

I submit this as my first draft of a prototypical example of privilege. The privilege was taken by the person who first decided that they had a bigger voice than others because (we presume) of their circumstance of being richer/older/whiter/Christianer/maler.


OK, compare with the person who says "I have been here twenty years. I think I have a bigger voice in what the holiday card should look like."

Is seniority just another form of privileged authority?

I found this definition:

Privilege is an unearned advantage or right granted to individuals or groups based on their social identity, such as race, gender, class, or sexual orientation.

I note that this definton of privilege does not include seniority.



As I write this, choosing my words carefully, I think I am groping toward an opinion: seniority in-and-of-itself can be privilege (i.e. unearned authority)

Privilege:
"I have been here twenty years - though I've never had anything to do with the Thank You cards. I should get a bigger voice because of my seniority."

Earned:
"I have been here twenty years and have been at twenty of these same meetings. I should get a bigger voice because of my expertise."


Thoughts?
Click to expand...
That strikes me as a narrow and specific definition of privilege, in a rather political, leftwing and potentially tendentious sense. The first meaning in my OED is: “ a right, advantage or immunity granted to or enjoyed by a person, or a body or class of persons, beyond the common advantages of others; an exemption in a particular case from certain burdens or liabilities.”

That meaning is neutral, whereas the definition you have found is implicitly negative, linked to the very modern and in my view deplorable tendency of seeing everything through the turd-tinted lens of identity politics.

Nevertheless, coming to your (rather unlikely) scenario and using the OED definition, yes I agree that seniority often confers privilege, in a number of social situations. But I would say it is a mistake to dismiss it as necessarily “unearned”. There are reasons why societies have valued the opinion of elders. (There are also many situations in which the opinions of older people are dismissed or ignored.)

Regarding businesses sending out Christmas cards, I feel sure just about any serious business would want to avoid antagonising their customers by making assumptions about their religious or cultural views. So they will send out something jolly with a neutral theme and a general expression of good wishes.

But in countries with a predominantly Christian cultural heritage, including the Americas and Europe, the winter holiday season is known as Christmas and no offence will be caused to anybody reasonable by referring to it as such.
 
Yeah, earned = experience plus knowledge derived. Similarly, when someone is promoted for their skillful use of experience and general performance, that's earned.

And there are positions where a company wants a certain look, to present a certain face to the public. Did that good-looking lady at the front desk earn her good looks? Probably not - genes and environment in utero, and then in childhood, are a big factor in looks. So corporations do, in the RW, weight some staffing choices towards privilege. I myself had one job in an organization where it was widely understood that promotions favored tall people. Didn't work there too long, and that bias was just one of multiple problems with management there. In the long run, bias towards privilege will harm a company or organization, simply because it tends to overlook talent.
 
exchemist said:
That strikes me as a narrow and specific definition of privilege, in a rather political, leftwing and potentially tendentious sense. The first meaning in my OED is: “ a right, advantage or immunity granted to or enjoyed by a person, or a body or class of persons, beyond the common advantages of others; an exemption in a particular case from certain burdens or liabilities.”That meaning is neutral, whereas the definition you have found is implicitly negative, linked to the very modern and in my view deplorable tendency of seeing everything through the turd-tinted lens of identity politics.
Click to expand...
Good point.

Yes, I am concentrating on the modern, recent use of the term privilege in its negative sense.

Actually, no. Let me recontextualize that.

I am talking about the presumption of privilege. The presumption that someone has the right, immunity or exemption.
In my prototype scenario, the SOWG presumes his voice shoud be heeded because of reasn he thinks are obvious.


That is a problem in any definition of privilege. - before or after the modern, recent usage of it.

exchemist said:
Nevertheless, coming to your (rather unlikely) scenario and using the OED definition, yes I agree that seniority often confers privilege, in a number of social situations.
Click to expand...

Implies, but does it confer?

Look at my example:

"I have been here twenty years - though I've never had anything to do with the Thank You cards. I should get a bigger voice because of my seniority."

Should he get a bigger voice simply because of seniority, or is it because of the assumption of relevant experience?

exchemist said:
But I would say it is a mistake to dismiss it as necessarily “unearned”. There are reasons why societies have valued the opinion of elders. (There are also many situations in which the opinions of older people are dismissed or ignored.)
Click to expand...
A December holiday in a company with a demonstrably diverse demographic would be an example where elders may not automatically bring wisdom.


exchemist said:
Regarding businesses sending out Christmas cards, I feel sure just about any serious business would want to avoid antagonising their customers by making assumptions about their religious or cultural views. So they will send out something jolly with a neutral theme and a general expression of good wishes.
Click to expand...
No need to get into that. It's just a hypothetical example - a tool.
 
TheVat said:
So corporations do, in the RW, weight some staffing choices towards privilege. I myself had one job in an organization where it was widely understood that promotions favored tall people.
Click to expand...
I don't think these count as privilege, in my view.

The company may be biased, but I don't see any employee saying "I serve the promo because I am taller than you".
 
If you have a number of applicants that fit the criteria for your job position, you should choose the one that needs it most. That one will, in a lot of cases, work the best and the hardest
 
DaveC426913 said:
First, a disclaimer: the question came to me in a dream (perhaps a waking dream, not sure). It is entirely hypothetical and academic. No real world agenda attached to it.

Let me set a generic scenario:

A company meeting is held about a holiday thank you card to all their clients. A cross-section of people are present - young, old, male, female, rich, poor, white, coloured, Christian, Muslim, etc.

The rich/old/white/WASP/guy stands up and says "I think a traditional Christmas card with Santa and Jesus is the best idea. I whipped up some designs to save us time."
The young/black/Muslim/girl says "That's not very inclusive."
OWWG says "Well, I've already made the designs, so..."
Click to expand...
What did the old Shia Muslim man say about it?
 
DaveC426913 said:
I don't think these count as privilege, in my view.

The company may be biased, but I don't see any employee saying "I serve the promo because I am taller than you".
Click to expand...
Well it's privilege in the recent sense I hear it used where someone is unaware that they have an advantage solely based on their birth. In the US, for example, "white privilege" is usually meant as something unconscious - not knowing your path has been lubricated by your outward appearance. The tall people who kept getting promoted (in my example l) thought it was because they were competent and had leadership skills; they weren't aware that management thought only tall people projected those qualities.
 
gmilam said:
That sounds more like arrogance to me.
Click to expand...
It is arrogance too, sure. But this is about the phenomenon of presuming one has a bigger voice than others, or more rights than others, based on some criteria, real or imagined, warranted or no.
 
TheVat said:
Well it's privilege in the recent sense I hear it used where someone is unaware that they have an advantage solely based on their birth. In the US, for example, "white privilege" is usually meant as something unconscious - not knowing your path has been lubricated by your outward appearance. The tall people who kept getting promoted (in my example l) thought it was because they were competent and had leadership skills; they weren't aware that management thought only tall people projected those qualities.
Click to expand...
All true, although I am not convinced about any prerequisite for being unaware or unconscious. They might be, not being aware and conscious doesn't invalidate the privilege.

I worked at a place where my coding teammate was a petite, young, female East Indian. Our colleague - a project manager was an older, broad-shouldered, male East Indian. She implored me to stand with her because he did not take her seriously, even in her area of expertise. (She told me it is part of their culture.) I am pretty sure he was aware and conscious of why he did not take her seriously.

I am also pretty sure the BMW driver is aware of his self-perceived importance.
 
DaveC426913 said:
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
My personal experience with privilege -

In college we saw a couple get mugged. Me and a friend took off after the mugger. He ran into a copse of trees. This was right at the corner of campus, and on the other side, three or four Cambridge cops were waiting with their guns out. He tried to run past them to get to an alley across the street. I followed to make sure they knew it was him.

I thought nothing of running in front of cops with their guns out - because I was white and he was black, so I subconsciously knew that the cops wouldn't think of targeting me. It wasn't even a conscious decision.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top