Were you born an atheist?

Abdullah Masud

Registered Member
There is well-known international research in developmental psychology suggesting that very young children naturally tend toward "intuitive theism." One of the leading researchers in this field is Justin L. Barrett, whose studies indicate that children around the ages of three to four intuitively perceive purpose, design, and a higher intentional agent behind the world.

This aligns closely with the statement of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), who said that every child is born upon Fitrah (a natural disposition to believe), and it is later social and cultural influence that shapes them into different belief systems.

So for those who do not believe in God today, I would like to ask respectfully:
During your childhood, did you ever have a sense of God, purpose, or a higher presence?
Did you feel differently about belief as a child compared to how you feel now?
Or was disbelief always your natural position from the beginning?

This is asked out of curiosity, not judgment. Personal reflections and honest experiences would be appreciated.
 
There is well-known international research in developmental psychology suggesting that very young children naturally tend toward "intuitive theism." One of the leading researchers in this field is Justin L. Barrett, whose studies indicate that children around the ages of three to four intuitively perceive purpose, design, and a higher intentional agent behind the world.

This aligns closely with the statement of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), who said that every child is born upon Fitrah (a natural disposition to believe), and it is later social and cultural influence that shapes them into different belief systems.

So for those who do not believe in God today, I would like to ask respectfully:
During your childhood, did you ever have a sense of God, purpose, or a higher presence?
Did you feel differently about belief as a child compared to how you feel now?
Or was disbelief always your natural position from the beginning?

This is asked out of curiosity, not judgment. Personal reflections and honest experiences would be appreciated.
I was raised Christian. So surrounded by Christian family, friends, school and parish/church.
Lessons on Jesus at school, Sunday school, mass on Sunday, holy days of obligation, visits to the school by priests and nuns, Cub scouts had a Christian Foundation and had sessions in the parish hall which was next door to the church.
Questioning the actual claims was pretty much out of the question from memory.
Apologies to the guys who have already heard this but I spent a lot of time in hospital and was off school around 1976 and I watched a lot of science programmes on TV.
I learned about ancient human settlements in caves in France and Spain. I think they were about 40,000 years old? They showed wall art of extinct animals, tools, fossils, geology.
I reasoned that Adam and Eve must have been cave men in that case, if they were the first humans.
I challenged a teacher when back, she said, "Don't be stupid."
I was 9 and a smelled a rat, that was not answering my question.
What's the issue?
Catholic school in the 1970s would have been very different to today. Adam and Eve would be just "people." Evolved humans from ancestral apes.
For me though that was the first chink in the armour but mum told me I was always asking her questions about god and heaven that she had no answer for.
Kids are smart like that and they know when adults are hiding something, we know our parents!
As an aside but kind of on topic, my son out right asked me if the stories in the Bible were "just stories," he was 8 I think.
I told him to work it out (I think) I think he may have eventually twisted my arm on my view on all of it. This carried on for a few years. One year of Uni and he told me he was an atheist.
 
I was raised Christian. So surrounded by Christian family, friends, school and parish/church.
Lessons on Jesus at school, Sunday school, mass on Sunday, holy days of obligation, visits to the school by priests and nuns, Cub scouts had a Christian Foundation and had sessions in the parish hall which was next door to the church.
Questioning the actual claims was pretty much out of the question from memory.
Apologies to the guys who have already heard this but I spent a lot of time in hospital and was off school around 1976 and I watched a lot of science programmes on TV.
I learned about ancient human settlements in caves in France and Spain. I think they were about 40,000 years old? They showed wall art of extinct animals, tools, fossils, geology.
I reasoned that Adam and Eve must have been cave men in that case, if they were the first humans.
I challenged a teacher when back, she said, "Don't be stupid."
I was 9 and a smelled a rat, that was not answering my question.
What's the issue?
Catholic school in the 1970s would have been very different to today. Adam and Eve would be just "people." Evolved humans from ancestral apes.
For me though that was the first chink in the armour but mum told me I was always asking her questions about god and heaven that she had no answer for.
Kids are smart like that and they know when adults are hiding something, we know our parents!
As an aside but kind of on topic, my son out right asked me if the stories in the Bible were "just stories," he was 8 I think.
I told him to work it out (I think) I think he may have eventually twisted my arm on my view on all of it. This carried on for a few years. One year of Uni and he told me he was an atheist.
Your experience seems to reflect a failure of teaching rather than a failure of faith itself. Being told “don’t be stupid” as a child for asking sincere questions must have been hurtful and discouraging. At that age, questioning is a sign of curiosity and intelligence, not defiance. When such curiosity is dismissed instead of guided with patience, doubt can naturally grow.
 
There is well-known international research in developmental psychology suggesting that very young children naturally tend toward "intuitive theism."
I don't think it's that simple. Humans have a natural desire to understand everything around us (for logical practical reasons) and that often leads us to speculation and assumption about the things we don't (yet) understand. That doesn't automatically mean theism, that's just one (broad) set of the many speculations. Even with some kind of "intuitive theism", a baby at birth would still be technically atheist-agnostic, not theist; they don't believe in any specific god or gods and they don't (can't!) claim to know whether any gods exists or not.

(Not that I believe these labels have much meaning at that level, or really anything like as much meaning in general as so many people seem to attribute to them.)

So for those who do not believe in God today, I would like to ask respectfully:
During your childhood, did you ever have a sense of God, purpose, or a higher presence?
Did you feel differently about belief as a child compared to how you feel now?
Or was disbelief always your natural position from the beginning?
There isn't anything I am consciously aware of changing, and I'm not sure I gave all that much thought to such things as a child.

It is worth remembering that it's impossible to entirely separate the "nature" and "nurture" aspects of childhood development, so even evidence of young children expressing leanings towards theism isn't necessarily entirely due to inborn instincts. I grew up in a "passive agnostic" household in a relatively secular society (70s/80s UK), so was only face with the ideas of religious beliefs when I was a little older and I was luckily (IMO) to be smart enough to address them rationally rather than unconditionally believing (as was sometimes suggested or implied).

Children brought up in religious environments obviously tend to pick up the beliefs of that religion to some extent, but if anything, that is evidence against intuitive theism specifically, since those beliefs aren't (and weren't) always purely theistic in nature.
 
I was raised Christian. But around 6 years old I had doubts and asked my Mom "How do we know there's a God?" She told me that I was going to have to decide that one for myself. She then told me about atheists and agnostics.

As a teenager and young adult I went through some bible study trying to answer the nagging doubts I had. But that study eventually led me to outright rejection of the concept as presented in church. Concepts like deism are still hard to refute, but that version of God seem fairly irrelevant.
 
Your experience seems to reflect a failure of teaching rather than a failure of faith itself. Being told “don’t be stupid” as a child for asking sincere questions must have been hurtful and discouraging. At that age, questioning is a sign of curiosity and intelligence, not defiance. When such curiosity is dismissed instead of guided with patience, doubt can naturally grow.
Yes, I still remember her name but she will be long dead now and good riddance to the spiteful old trout. The sort of self righteous, hypercritical, bitter, frustrated catholic, virgin that should have never been allowed near children.
Luckily we had some good teachers and priests amongst the sadists and psychopaths.

To answer your original question more directly, I always wanted to know how things worked, how old things were and where everything came from.
It think it unlikely I would have invented gods to explain any of it, especially with all the access to science programmes I had at the time. Experiment, Horizon, tomorrows world, World in action, panorama. I never saw Cosmos unfortunately, I would have liked that.
 
I think that study gives too much credence to the mental development of a young child. It also has more to do with their environment. We are exposed to "Santa", "the tooth fairy" and fiction like "Aladdin and his magic lamp".

I grew up in a moderate Christian household where I had to go to "Sunday School" until I was about 15. I never believed any of it after I was old enough (6?) to not believe in Santa. I was in the culture, it was encouraged but other than having to go to Sunday School, nothing was forced.

There were no bad experiences, the people were nice. I just had no reason to believe any of it. I didn't call myself "an atheist". It wasn't about "disbelief". There was just a lack of believing. Again, that was my conclusion at 6 as well as now.

I think most people at various times are in "awe" of nature such as when standing in front of a massive mountain. Some try to say that's "spiritual" and then to develop that into a "cause" and a "being" but to me that's nonsense. It's natural to be in awe of large objects, impressive environments. Some way feel that way at a concert or a fireworks display but very few think it's a "mystical" experience.
 
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There is well-known international research in developmental psychology suggesting that very young children naturally tend toward "intuitive theism." [..]

The primitive animism of hunter-gatherer groups is regarded as preceding physiolatry, totemism, and theism. Not that such means animism is an inherent or default belief orientation of humans. But it probably makes more sense to speculate about implicit animism than implicit theism or implicit atheism, if one is going to explore that kind of territory. Just because the emergence of the latter two rivals are much further down the road of cultural development and acquired views.
_
 
There is well-known international research in developmental psychology suggesting that very young children naturally tend toward "intuitive theism." One of the leading researchers in this field is Justin L. Barrett, whose studies indicate that children around the ages of three to four intuitively perceive purpose, design, and a higher intentional agent behind the world.
I remember when I was around 4 an had a tricycle an watching the back wheels when I would peddle it... an what I saw was the back wheels turning on ther own... I mean... I could understand that the front wheel turned cause the peddles was attached to it... but could not understand why the back wheels would also turn.!!! I concluded that ther was "magic" in those back wheels... an if I could get one off I would be able to see what made it turn.!!!
I got a pair of pliers an worked a long time tryin to get the pressed on nut off... an after lots of pinched fingers I finally got it off... an just as I pulled the wheel off the axle I saw a gray colored smoke pouring downward an I had an a brief feeling of exhilaration just before Dad came up behind me an said... what are you doing.!!! End of memory :frown:
This aligns closely with the statement of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), who said that every child is born upon Fitrah (a natural disposition to believe), and it is later social and cultural influence that shapes them into different belief systems.

So for those who do not believe in God today, I would like to ask respectfully:
During your childhood, did you ever have a sense of God, purpose, or a higher presence?
Did you feel differently about belief as a child compared to how you feel now?
Or was disbelief always your natural position from the beginning?

This is asked out of curiosity, not judgment. Personal reflections and honest experiences would be appreciated.be
My belief in God... Santa... Easter Bunny... ect. was about the same... I believed it until it didn't make sense.!!!
I remember at age 7 I was very suspicious about God beliefs an confident that my Sunday school teachers was just telling lies like the Santa Clause stuff... but I also knew to perty much go along with the "joke"... especially if I wanted to keep gettin the free cookies an cool aid they served.!!!
One Sunday they said we could win a little white bible if we came to sunday school 6 weeks in a row wit-out missing... an I felt like I was cheeted cause I missed on my 6th week cause I had chicken pox an mom wouldn't let me go... so the next week I went an expected to get my
little white bible but they said no... I had to start all over an not miss 6 weeks in a row... an that I did... an I won my Bible an never went back :)

My whole experience at that Baptist church was about 1 year... an then I started goin to a Methodist church... an not only did they serve cookies an cool aid... the teacher played the piano an we sang songs an had fun... also they just gave me a little brown Bible with no strangs attached... an I went thar until I was 12... an hell, by then I could get my own cool aid an cookies :D

Ah memories... love 'em.!!!
 
Hi Abdullah,

I must say that it's refreshing to see a theist come to sciforums and ask the atheists here about what they believe and how they came to those beliefs, rather than just assuming that they already know all about what atheists believe and assuming that they have chosen to "reject" god(s) out of spite or ignorance or selfishness.
There is well-known international research in developmental psychology suggesting that very young children naturally tend toward "intuitive theism." One of the leading researchers in this field is Justin L. Barrett, whose studies indicate that children around the ages of three to four intuitively perceive purpose, design, and a higher intentional agent behind the world.
Human beings are hardwired to look for "agents" that cause things to happen. Very probably, in part it's an evolved survival instinct (there are other reasons for it, too). For example, if you're a hunter on the savannah and you hear a loud roar coming from the grass nearby, it is probably safer in the first instance to jump to the conclusion that the cause of the roar is a dangerous animal (e.g. a lion) rather than assuming that the sound is due to something inanimate and without intention. For similar reasons, humans are adapted to look for human signs (e.g. faces), because other humans are very important to our continuing survival (or failure to continue surviving, as the case may be).

A side-effect is that we can be inclined to assume the presence of an "agent" even when there isn't one. So we "see" faces in cloud and in rock formations, even when those things are entirely natural. And when we see lightning, the temptation is to assume that some intentional "agent" might be causing it, even if that's not the case.

I would hesitate to call this sort of thing "intuitive theism", although I can see how it might lead people to develop theistic notions.

So for those who do not believe in God today, I would like to ask respectfully:
During your childhood, did you ever have a sense of God, purpose, or a higher presence?
I did. But that didn't develop in a vacuum. I was brought up in a Christian household. I was taught about the Christian god. I was taken to Christian church weekly, including Sunday School classes where I was taught about Jesus and the Christian God. There was a lot of talk about such things as "feeling the love of God" and such. It's hardly surprising, then, that I would later come to interpret certain feelings and intuitions as signs that Christian god was real.

Later on, I came to a more accurate understanding of the world and I stopped interpreting those kinds of feelings as coming from a god.
Did you feel differently about belief as a child compared to how you feel now?
No. I was an inquisitive child who always wanted to know about all kinds of things. Now I'm an inquisitive adult who wants to know about all kinds of things.

As a child, up to a certain age, I don't think I would have been able to tell you the difference between belief and knowledge. Now I know that the difference is very important, and why.
Or was disbelief always your natural position from the beginning?
Until I was taught about the Christian god, I didn't know anything about it. This is the same position that all children find themselves in. Somebody has to teach them their religion.

I was brought up in a loving household. I trusted my parents. Like all children, I was willing to accept that what they told me was usually true, unless I had reason to think otherwise.

I assume you're asking specifically about "disbelief" in gods. I don't really know what you mean by a "natural position". Do you mean at birth, before anybody taught me anything about gods? I don't have any reliable memories from my first few years of life. I don't think I ever consciously thought about what my "default" position on belief or disbelief should be, at that age.

As I grew up (certainly from around the age of 7 or so), I developed a strong interest in science, so I started to absorb the idea of what it means to actually know and understand things, as opposed to merely believing them. In the process of learning about science, I also started to learn about critical thinking and skepticism.

I called myself a Christian until around the age of 19 or 20. Then I went through a period of self-identifying as an agnostic, without fully understanding what that meant. By that time, though, I was - for all intents and purposes - an atheist. It wasn't until some time later that I felt confident enough to "come out" as such, though, because there was significiant social pressure to be a theist (not from my family or friends, I hasten to add).

I hope you can see that not much of this story has to do with any "natural position". It is more a story about a person learning how to think critically about what he is told and/or expected to accept as true.

---
It has been noted that the largest single correlator of a person's religious orientation is the environment in which they were raised. In majority Muslim countries, therefore, most people end up believing in Islam. In majority Christian countries, most people end up believing in Christianity. And so on. This is not an accident. People don't "naturally" adopt a religion. Religion is something that is taught to them.
 
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Hi Abdullah,

I must say that it's refreshing to see a theist come to sciforums and ask the atheists here about what they believe and how they came to those beliefs, rather than just assuming that they already know all about what atheists believe and assuming that they have chosen to "reject" god(s) out of spite or ignorance or selfishness.
It is always a mistake to assume things about people without evidence. I also believe that accepting something through understanding is better than blind acceptance, and that honest, critical thinking, even if it takes time, is what leads a person closer to the truth.
 
It is always a mistake to assume things about people without evidence. I also believe that accepting something through understanding is better than blind acceptance, and that honest, critical thinking, even if it takes time, is what leads a person closer to the truth.
Что есть истина, Абдулла?
 
Но вы же стремитесь к истине? Я вас правильно поняла? Тогда вы должны знать, к чему вы стремитесь.
It is just things that are true there is no big mystery to me. Is it true that I was born in Manchester? Yes that is true.
 
It is just things that are true there is no big mystery to me. Is it true that I was born in Manchester? Yes that is true.
Вы считаете, что истина - это просто подтверждённый факт чего то, Пин?
 
Вы считаете, что истина - это просто подтверждённый факт чего то, Пин?
Is there anything more to it? Something is either true, not true or don't know either way.
Philosophy is not my thing Olga and "truth" has a philosophical feel to it.
 
Is there anything more to it? Something is either true, not true or don't know either way.
Philosophy is not my thing Olga and "truth" has a philosophical feel to it.
Я думаю, автор имел ввиду именно что то философское. Истина, как то, к чему нужно стремиться.
 
Я думаю, автор имел ввиду именно что то философское. Истина, как то, к чему нужно стремиться.
In that case I do not have a horse in that race. I think the only valuable truth in the universe is the scientific one, that is how we find out about our world.
 
In that case I do not have a horse in that race. I think the only valuable truth in the universe is the scientific one, that is how we find out about our world.
Тут, наверное, ещё вопрос в том, чего мы хотим от этого мира. Вы чего хотите от мира, Пин?
 
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