War in Ukraine

Pinball1970

Pinball1970

Valued Senior Member
Starting the thread with this from the BBC

www.bbc.co.uk

UK and France to send defence chiefs to Ukraine as Starmer says Putin is 'playing for time'

European leaders meet Volodymyr Zelensky at a summit in Paris where Ukraine's leader calls on the US to be stronger against Russia.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Some alarming language and developments. European leaders are accusing Putin of stalling and just playing for time so are now planning to send military officials to Ukraine.
Even though this could put the UK /NATO directly in conflict with Russia, a peace keeping force and continued sanctions are the only way forward.
If the ceasefire is breeched by Russia which it will be, then the strongest retaliation should be employed.
Edit: Bar nukes!
 
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Seems Ukraine have received the latest draft from the US of the proposed minerals deal. Trump has said that the deal is needed not only to repay the $350bn that he says the US has provided, but also, as he seems to roll out for every action, for "national security", being the securing of rare earth minerals. Even their own State Dept puts the figure closer to $160bn so far (including committed), which is less than Europe.
And Trump still seems to think the EU contributions are secured... when they aren't. But, hey, why let fact stand in the way of a dictatorship.

Ukraine, for their part, have refused to recognise the aid from the US already received as being loans. Future aid would be subject to agreement, but past aid was free of condition, they say (seemingly correctly).
Further, they'll refuse any deal with the US that prevents them from pursuing membership of the EU, as the US might want to insist upon (being what Russia wants, and the US being a Russian puppet these days).

Russia, for their part, have said that they will only abide by any agreed ceasefire if sanctions on Russia are lifted, notably access to the Swift payment system for their banks. But Ukraine said that this was not part of the agreement. A case of deal creep. And with the US on the side of Russia, it seems, then Trump may try to push that through.

Expect more Mafia-esque extortion tactics from Trump, based on whatever Putin requests of him.
 
Pinball1970 said:
Starting the thread with this from the BBC

www.bbc.co.uk

UK and France to send defence chiefs to Ukraine as Starmer says Putin is 'playing for time'

European leaders meet Volodymyr Zelensky at a summit in Paris where Ukraine's leader calls on the US to be stronger against Russia.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Some alarming language and developments. European leaders are accusing Putin of stalling and just playing for time so are now planning to send military officials to Ukraine.
Even though this could put the UK /NATO directly in conflict with Russia, a peace keeping force and continued sanctions are the only way forward.
If the ceasefire is breeched by Russia which it will be, then the strongest retaliation should be employed.
Edit: Bar nukes!
Click to expand...

I think the main problems are that Putin seems to have staked everything on attaining something he can call victory , and is willing to do just about anything to secure said victory - any & all agreements be damned - and that Fortress Europe (at least according to everything I've read on the matter) is going to have a tough time backing up any tough talk with military resources sufficient to allow the Ukrainians to do more than prolong a stalemate on the battle front.

I agree on the sanctions against Russia. Squeeze the living Hell out of the bastards. Seize their frozen assets & give 'em to Ukraine - or the equivalent in weaponry, if possible.

Hard to believe there will actually be a ceasefire, given that Fortress Europe and the US seem to be working somewhat at cross purposes as of late - and of course, that Putin keeps moving the proverbial goal posts evidently hoping to hold out for final military victory.
Almost equally difficult to picture is a powerful retaliation to a Russian breach of said cease fire. Much as the warmonger in me would like to see wings of Western aircraft pounding the entire Russian invasion force to a bloody pulp, I find it hard to believe they would, for fear that Putin would unleash the "Sword of Damocles", so to speak.
I say: push it right to the edge - and when the son of a bitch threatens, bellow Fill your hand, you son of a bitch !

It will be glorious !
 
Killjoy said:
...Squeeze the living Hell out of the bastards. Seize their frozen assets & give 'em to Ukraine - or the equivalent in weaponry, if possible.

...
I say: push it right to the edge -

It will be glorious !
Click to expand...
glorious? as in steeped in blood an gore?
Think back
Remember Putin's story about the cornered rat? Did you think that that was idle chitchat?

as/re "Seize their frozen assets"
Ok, because you are righteous? And, so you can do anything that you want to the unrighteous, including stealing from them and killing them...
because well---because you are righteous.

Love your enemy
(If nothing else, it confuses the hell out of them.)

Maybe the world would be a better place if we all could take a step back and see the other guys motives and needs.
 
Sarkus said:
Expect more Mafia-esque extortion tactics from Trump, based on whatever Putin requests of him.
Click to expand...
The solution for Ukraine is simple. Just agree to the new US standard of ally and become a member of the USA. Same goes for Canada and Greenland. USA! USA! Welcome Governor Zelensky.
 
sculptor said:
Maybe the world would be a better place if we all could take a step back and see the other guys motives and needs
Click to expand...
The words and actions of Trump publicly w.r.t. this war have flown in the face of the interests of Ukraine, NATO and Europe.

He has made Putin feel stronger than ever and probably even extended the original scope of his invasion.

Hopefully Starmer will follow through now quickly with his "Global partners" and send a "peacekeeping" force to the region.
 
Capracus said:
The solution for Ukraine is simple. Just agree to the new US standard of ally and become a member of the USA. Same goes for Canada and Greenland. USA! USA! Welcome Governor Zelensky.
Click to expand...
You forgot Sarcasm emoji bro lol
Canada isnt for sale,neither is greenland ,Trampys grandiose plans are a joke.
Ukrain will be demilitarized and Kiev clown charged w genocide of rusian civilians asuming he lives that long and not get replaced by Rusia friendly leader soon.
The show will End on Rusias terms when Ukrain poses no danger to them.

www.rt.com

Intel sharing and ‘boots on the ground’: Takeaways from NYT investigation into ‘secret’ US-Ukraine partnership

The Biden administration provided Ukraine with indispensable intel and strategy insights, a NYT investigation claims
www.rt.com www.rt.com
 
Pinball1970 said:
Putin invaded so yes in this case
Click to expand...
Rusia was totaly justified to invade Ukrain after CIA overthrow of its prez and put the green comedian in power,
US broke every promise not to expand closer to Rus border and place nukes there.
How would you like if Rusia put nukes in Cuba or Mexico.?
 
scorpius said:
Rusia was totaly justified to invade Ukrain after CIA overthrow of its prez and put the green comedian in power,
US broke every promise not to expand closer to Rus border and place nukes there.
How would you like if Rusia put nukes in Cuba or Mexico.?
Click to expand...
Zelensky was sworn in as president on May 2019, during the Trump administration. You're blaming Trump for this then?
 
sculptor said:
as/re "Seize their frozen assets"
Ok, because you are righteous? And, so you can do anything that you want to the unrighteous, including stealing from them and killing them...
because well---because you are righteous.
Click to expand...
Because they are committing war crimes by targeting civilians, hospitals, women and children as they invade a peaceful, sovereign nation.
sculptor said:
Love your enemy
(If nothing else, it confuses the hell out of them.)
Click to expand...
The love of Jesus doesn't work on people like Putin and Trump. We need Judge Dredd to deliver justice.
sculptor said:
Maybe the world would be a better place if we all could take a step back and see the other guys motives and needs.
Click to expand...
We already know their motives and needs, that's why we and many others oppose them. The time of stepping back is long over.
 
sculptor said:
glorious? as in steeped in blood an gore?
Think back
Remember Putin's story about the cornered rat? Did you think that that was idle chitchat?

as/re "Seize their frozen assets"
Ok, because you are righteous? And, so you can do anything that you want to the unrighteous, including stealing from them and killing them...
because well---because you are righteous.

Love your enemy
(If nothing else, it confuses the hell out of them.)

Maybe the world would be a better place if we all could take a step back and see the other guys motives and needs.
Click to expand...
The last, most noble act of humanity: Snuff themselves out forever in one last rain of fire...
Like the song says: BOOM BOOM - what is it ? OUT GO THE LIGHTS !!!
:cool:

Seriously, though - it seems to me it comes down to the choice of acceding to Putin's demands, or standing against him. If it's to be the latter, then everything that can be done must be done to make the statement: This will not be countenanced. Stand Down !
The frozen assets are the closest we're likely to come to getting reparations for the damage done.
Of course, we're talking about dealing with a man who already ordered a MIRV-equipped ballistic missile strike, and then suggested it might be amusing to test whether or not Europe's defenses could stop another if launched at some hypothetical target, so one supposes that the "cornered rat" might just be nutty enough to cut loose with the real thing.
I think the bastard's bluffing.

As for loving the enemy... ...I can't even admire Putin, let alone love him. He's like the last standard bearer of a defunct, dead faith trying vainly to ignore its demise and restore it as though via sheer force of will - and force of arms, of course. I feel pity for the Russians he's murdered by feeding them into the mad meat grinder he's unleashed. If I'm loving anybody in the enemy camp, it's Ramzan Kadyrov - but really only because he's got that zazzy name . Or the Wagner Group guy - Yevgeny Prigozhin. Too bad he didn't march all the way to Moscow and stick Putin's head on a pike...

In regards to the other guy's motives, there's a school of thought which holds that Putin's invasion of Ukraine is a response to threats posed to Russian security by the "steady advance" of NATO expansion right up to the Russian border. Does anybody actually think the atrophied arsenal of Fortress Europe is sufficient to launch some kind of latter-day Operation Barbarossa into Russia, or some damn thing ? Nobody cares about threatening Russia - they just don't want to be enslaved by them again.
 
sculptor said:
led by Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili from Georgia
Click to expand...
No Russian involvement?

None of the past General secretaries of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, had any ties to Russia?

Stalin died in the 1950s the CCCP ended in the 1990s you cannot blame it all on one Georgian nut job.
 
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Pinball1970 said:
No Russian involvement?

None of the past General secretaries of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, had any ties to Russia?

Stalin died in the 1950s the CCCP ended in the 1990s you cannot blame it all on one Georgian nut job.
Click to expand...
Pinball: You seem to be grasping at straws here.
 
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