sculptor
Valued Senior Member
If vegetarians eat vegetables, then you must be an humanitarian?
Venison sausage
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If vegetarians eat vegetables, then you must be an humanitarian?
Yes, but to me I would not drowned out the flavour of a meat I don't regularly have.
Another thing about '' non-meat meat'' is that it cooks quicker.
Well, I'm an atheist and have been accused of eating babies. Between us, we'll solve the overpopulation crisis.
Not talking about the sociology, but the physical effects - that the very people most affected by the downsides of imperfectly thought through or carried out meat avoidance (and imho most likely or visibly harmed in some way) are the ones most likely to adopt it, is worth noticing.
Some approaches to vegetarianism seem to resemble eating disorders, in how they work.
I suppose they might, if they're following a fad or just stupid. But there is no good reason for this: information is readily available regarding proper nutrition, balancing nutrients, quantities and proportions, recipes, supplements, risks and benefits - everything.
I think it's reasonable to assert that Americans, generally, have an unhealthy relationship with food--especially considering the prevalence of obesity and dietary-related health conditions. Moreover, it's also reasonable to suggest that the vast majority of those suffering from obesity, diabetes, heart conditions, etc. are not likely to be vegans/vegetarians.
The vegetarian diets that do resemble eating disorders tend to be diet diets, that is, adopted solely for the purpose of losing weight. The ones who intend to stick with their diet for the remainder of their lives adopt a very different approach. In my experience, vegetarians tend to pay far more attention to what they are eating by necessity--probably about 95 percent of what I eat is a basic foodstuff, and for anything that comes in a package, I'm obliged to exhaustively review the list of ingredients on the label.
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I think I'll stick with my own fortified vegan variant of po cha (yak butter tea)
You can get authentic ghee? (yuck... but still impressive)
I think their entire food manufacturing industry is out to kill them.
In minuscule print, in poor light, while buffeted by giant toddler-laden shopping carts. I'm not a purist, but we're both old and have health issues, so need to avoid some substances and seek out others.
The reasons may not be good, but they are common and socially reinforced. And it's possible to underestimate the intellectual experience, as well as ability and effort, involved in sifting through the "information" out there - these are teenagers and youths.
For example: in my region a good vegetarian diet is going to be, of necessity, high tech. The winters here are not rainy - they are frozen. For months. The people who lived off this land for eight thousand years ate meat - lots of meat - and if they couldn't get it they starved in the winter. Likewise everyone - every human being, for tens of thousands of years - who lived in this climate zone anywhere on this planet. So the local vegetarian is importing, processing, carefully analyzing via modern laboratory science, and so forth - it's a sophisticated endeavor, balancing a large number of considerations (imported vegetables impose significant environmental and political costs, highly productive summer gardens require killing or domesticating animals and getting fertilizer from somewhere, there's the omega 3/omega 6 issue with local grains, etc). Did I mention these are very young people, often? Especially the women - they launch into this at 15, 16, and without good family support.
sculptor
Valued Senior Member
nitrates?
It seems that I should be adding a source of nitrates to the sausage mix.
Would celery salt be adequate?
(or should I also use sodium nitrate?)
......................
learning curve
sausage
summer sausage
salami
etc...
etc...
...
cure(the meat first? or add into the sausage mix?)
salt, sugar and then smoke the sausage?
cold smoke or hot(cooking heat)
(I like seeing sausages hanging from the kitchen ceiling )
It seems that I should be adding a source of nitrates to the sausage mix.
Would celery salt be adequate?
(or should I also use sodium nitrate?)
......................
learning curve
sausage
summer sausage
salami
etc...
etc...
...
cure(the meat first? or add into the sausage mix?)
salt, sugar and then smoke the sausage?
cold smoke or hot(cooking heat)
(I like seeing sausages hanging from the kitchen ceiling )
[
I sincerely doubt that. The mass media may be throwing the occasional nod at meatless and low meat diets, but there is still far more jeering at vegetarians.
IOW, people expected to pass exams in Calculus and Biochemistry. Food isn't that complicated!
They lived in teepees and igloos. We don't. They also dried berries and ground roots and stored grains, because on a meat diet, they would have been malnourished (and often were. Life expectancy of - what? 40 years?)
Of course. Doesn't that pretty much describe the meat portion, in fact all of, modern urban diet? Farmers and rural pensioners have a bit more choice in growing and preserving their own food; city people buy what's made by corporations.
Or even twelve. Fortunately, they're not each required to reinvent a vegetarian diet.
One single Google entry. I typed "Healthy vegetarian diet" and picked the one for4 young women.
https://youngwomenshealth.org/2013/12/05/vegetarian-diet/
However, I suspect that the overwhelming majority of meat-eaters in your area are most emphatically NOT procuring their meat through hunting game or buying from sustainable, small-scale relatively "humane" farms. Rather, they're getting their meat from environmentally devastating, concentration camp-style "farms," right? The meat may not have to be shipped thousands of miles, but how much methane is produced? CO2 emissions? etc.
Mine is a vegan variation--it's still a work in progress.
The ghee I had in South Asia was fine (or perhaps I simply accepted it, because it was virtually unavoidable), but elsewhere... Of course, I find most dairy products disgusting, and have difficulty accepting that most people actually like them.
The relative lack of restrictions placed upon the agricultural industry in the U.S. is unsettling. So many additives we use freely are banned in much of Europe and elsewhere, propaganda that bears no resemblance to truth (like the "pork--the other white meat" campaign) is their standard marketing strategy, and they've got alarming freedoms to exploit both the labor and their subjects. Along with legislation like AETA and ag-gag laws, big agra poses one of the biggest existential threats to both Americans and the planet.
Of course. But that does not help the inexperienced vegetarian avoid harming themselves for dubious reasons.
They are not getting their social reinforcement from mass media - unless Facebook counts.
Sure. Doesn't help.
They were taller, stronger, more robust, and longer lived, than the more plant based and intensively agricultural Euros who invaded. They did starve, in the winters, especially when game was scarce and the fishing poor. So did the Euros, when the crops failed.
They are required to recognize one, and develop the ways and means, and avoid major error in concept or execution.
Other arguments against vegetarianism/veganism (bioregional, environmental, etc.) have some merit--debatable, certainly, compared with the U.S. meat industry--but I'm just not seeing evidence of these health or developmental concerns. Personally, I'm approaching a half-century and I've been vegan (occasionally, lacto- ) for over 35 years. My only health issue is epilepsy--caused by a head injury, of course--and I split a fair bit of wood (2 to 4 cords per annum) and hike and bike a shit-ton. And yet, honestly, I've never really given a thought to nutrition--I mean, I pay attention to what I eat and such, but I don't worry myself over vitamins and minerals, fat/protein/carbs, and all that.
A bad veg diet is certainly possible, but it's really not that damn hard to have a good one. And, of course, there are those with certain conditions which may make a certain diet ill-advised, but their numbers are not statistically significant.
The question is how common the bad ones are, and who is most vulnerable. It's not a theoretical objection to vegetarian diets.
Steve Jobs' diet was pretty wacky, of course; but I've never come across any substantive data on the prevalence of "bad" diets, or costs to the medical system.
Lierre Keith's The Vegetarian Myth <<< is an interesting read, but I can't really strongly recommend it as it's seriously marred by some sloppy research and the author's seeming inability to keep anger (at having been made seriously ill by a diet) from influencing an objective assessment of the available data and evidence. Still, it's got some interesting bits, and she examines (or attempts to) the many and varied arguments for and against vegetarianism from ethical, political, nutritional, and environmental perspectives.
sculptor
Valued Senior Member
I had thought that Steve Jobs was a fruitarian?
And that that leads to pancreatic cancer?
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we have snow on the ground so I made spinach-cheese crepes for supper this eve.
On a cursory glance, I wouldn't expect so.
"A healthy diet rich in fresh fruits and vegetables seemed to protect against pancreatic cancer in some but not all studies. In experiments, lab rats fed a high-protein, high-fat diet were consistently found to develop pancreatic cancer.Jul 26, 2018"
https://www.webmd.com/cancer/pancreatic-cancer/pancreatic-cancer-diet-and-prevention
I haven`t seen this harm in any vegetarians of my acquaintance. What (clinically) happens to young women who avoid meat, while having access to the array of other foods generally available in developed countries? I'm not talking about anorexia or fad weight-loss schemes.
Humans are omnivores, able to do well on quite a lot of different foods, different amounts and intervals between meals. They can go for quite long periods on an inadequate or monotonous diet. What might account for the relative health of North American natives is a diversity of food sources, including lots of greens, fruits, fungi, nuts and grains in season, outdoor exercise and leisure, while the underclasses of Europe were kept poor, overcrowded and overworked - not to mention the deplorable hygiene.