Vedic astrologer vs. a skeptic

[greenberg]

LG, this thread of yours has numbed me completely. Never in a million years would I have suspected that you actually believe this stuff is real.

You should read more carefully what Lightgigantic has said so far in this thread:

basically astrology can offer an insight as to how karma is affecting one and how it plays a part in understanding how one "acts" in a particular environment - of course ultimately karma has nothing to do with the spirit soul, so even a fully accurate insight in such plays of karma can not ultimately enable one to transcend karma

Traditionally people called upon astrologers to help them assess their material situation - like how determining who is the partner of their dreams (or alternatively, nightmares), understanding what vocation one is more suited to etc etc. If one chanced upon a good astrologer they also might get clues about what fortune and mishaps they can expect in life. Basically to visit an astrologer was to gain an insight into one's karma "blue print" ... but after all is said and done, everyone's karma brings one to the point of death and no one's karma prevents them from applying themselves to spiritual life, so astrology does not represent the highest discipline of vedic literature (although it may assist one in developing the earnestness to apply themselves to spiritual culture, since it at least clearly recognizes that there is a power higher than one's self)

In short, Vedic astrology has to do with karma. But karma isn't the only active force in a person's life (as you have hopefully learned by now from your extensive exchanges with Lightgigantic), hence astrological readings cannot always be accurate and are meant to cover only some aspects of a person's life.


Secondly, as for your skepticism about astrological readings being too general, quite likely applicable to large numbers of people and therefore not believeable: This is indicative of an everyday fact: Many - if not most - people are not all that special. Many - if not most - people live their lives almost as if they lived by a script. They have schedules, routines, constraints and they live within them. There are many types of those schedules, routines, constraints, but within the same type, people are much alike. If that wouldn't be so, companies and organizations could not hire new workers and members to fill in when the older ones retire, for example. One middleclass housewife can go to live in another middleclass housewife's house, and with some little adjustments, or not even that, fit right in. And so on. For the most part, people are exchangeable.

Many of us would like to think we are so special and unique that little or nothing about us or our lives can be accurately predicted by astrological maps. But we're not that special ...

Aside from that - in some respects, however, we appreciate to fit into types and things about us can be accurately predicted: medicine is the prime example. Do you know anyone who frets because their body is too much like anatomy maps say human bodies are? No, we're very eager to fit in with particular medical notions of what constitutes "healthy" and "normal" - on the whole, this is much better for us than to be "special" with all those extra livers, absent feet and tumors and such.

 

[lightgigantic]

Claims of astrology are no different than claims of the paranormal. LG, this thread of yours has numbed me completely. Never in a million years would I have suspected that you actually believe this stuff is real. The thread belongs in the parapsychology subforum, bushy eyebrows and all.

I'm forced to assume that from the beginning onward that you've been completely out of touch with reality. I feel guilt. I need a beer.

So lets get this straight.

Astrology is false because it violates your belief system?

 

[lightgigantic]

It's a cold read, plain, simple and obvious. When you listen to the first chick being hoodwinked, Shermer asks her at least four questions. If somebody is going to tell me my horoscope then I think it inappropriate to ask me questions during it.

I would like to see him analyze some Swahili Bushmen or a reasonable facsimile, as long as we know their birthdates. There should be no indication that these guys are what they are as in the video where the whole thing was set in an office of some sort. We can all cold read if we want to and in 30 years you'll be as good as he is.
\

For instance, somebody gives you a date of birth in an office setting. Through a familiarity with the times we live in I would know that many workers are one half of a dual income family. The older the person, the more likely that they are in this situation or at least were at one time. More than likely they've experienced either a loss of job or have been promoted at one time, marriage problems, kid problems, medical and a myriad of other older adult related problems, even managing unwanted bushy eyebrows. What older woman hasn't trimmed eye hair at one time or another. Knowing a bit of human psychology and mixing it with some subtle questions and voila, you've convinced another one.

I could go on but you can see what I'm getting at.

(you forget that he scored 29% when they switched the readings around?)

you don't think scoring 77% from just a persons location and time of birth is good enough?


How about you say 14 things about my character, vocation, family relationships, vocational preferences, etc and see what you rate?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Secondly, as for your skepticism about astrological readings being too general, quite likely applicable to large numbers of people and therefore not believeable: This is indicative of an everyday fact: Many - if not most - people are not all that special. Many - if not most - people live their lives almost as if they lived by a script. They have schedules, routines, constraints and they live within them. There are many types of those schedules, routines, constraints, but within the same type, people are much alike. If that wouldn't be so, companies and organizations could not hire new workers and members to fill in when the older ones retire, for example. One middleclass housewife can go to live in another middleclass housewife's house, and with some little adjustments, or not even that, fit right in. And so on. For the most part, people are exchangeable.

That's a nice cold read. Been brushing up on your astrology.

however, we appreciate to fit into types and things about us can be accurately predicted

Astrology doesn't make predictions. Its after the fact.:shrug:

 

[swarm]

Being flexible does NOT mean you're wishy-washy! There's more to you than just daydreams. Within you there lies a resolute optimism, a nearly psychic intuition and a fertile imagination that allows you to appreciate the mysteries of life.

When it comes to physical beauty, you are unconventional, a risk-taker motivated by subconscious visions. Not one to follow trends, you strike out on your own in defense of your independent spirit. You loathe conformity, but despite your rebellion, people can't help but be attracted to you!

Your beauty comes from your open heart, your belief in the goodness of others, your sympathetic nature and the way you never shy away from saying how you feel.

 

[lightgigantic]

Being flexible does NOT mean you're wishy-washy! There's more to you than just daydreams. Within you there lies a resolute optimism, a nearly psychic intuition and a fertile imagination that allows you to appreciate the mysteries of life.

When it comes to physical beauty, you are unconventional, a risk-taker motivated by subconscious visions. Not one to follow trends, you strike out on your own in defense of your independent spirit. You loathe conformity, but despite your rebellion, people can't help but be attracted to you!

Your beauty comes from your open heart, your belief in the goodness of others, your sympathetic nature and the way you never shy away from saying how you feel.

quite a few ranks down on what the astrologer in the video link could offer

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

What's the matter? Didn't like the daydreamer inference? Or was it the subconscious visionary remark? I think Swarm is saying you're probably one ugly SOB but you've got a great personality.

 

[Michael]

I think that when, the time of year a person is born, could have an affect on their personality. For example, a person born in the cold of winter versus someone born in the warm summer - may have a small long term personality effect.

 

[lightgigantic]

What's the matter? Didn't like the daydreamer inference? Or was it the subconscious visionary remark? I think Swarm is saying you're probably one ugly SOB but you've got a great personality.

there's more to atsrologythan vague character definitions

How about you say 14 things about my character, vocation, family relationships, vocational preferences, etc and see what you rate



whenever you're ready ....

 

[kmguru]

I think that when, the time of year a person is born, could have an affect on their personality. For example, a person born in the cold of winter versus someone born in the warm summer - may have a small long term personality effect.

If you take the cause and effect of the Universe (the butterfly effect) and consider the Universe to be deterministic, then perhaps you can extrapolate the birth event with effects or future events. While those are big ifs, no one has the knowledge of the seed that creates the appeaerance of the random events....and the corelation thereof.

On the other hand I guess you can say that cars made the day after the holiday would have a greater chance of breaking down and so on....

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

there's more to atsrologythan vague character definitions

How about you say 14 things about my character, vocation, family relationships, vocational preferences, etc and see what you rate



whenever you're ready ....

Wow!!! How far the mighty have fallen. Are you running out of options? Silly parlor games & the parapsychological taking over from what once was serious thought. Religious philosopher resorting to impassioned pleas over a faceless internet for a description of oneself is a gigantic step down from perspicaciousness. There are certain inherent difficulties faced by anyone who tries to give an honest opinion of another when all one has to go on is a name (username) and a style of argument.

Not that I can't try and have some fun with it but I doubt you would be very receptive to anything critical. Your opinion of yourself will differ from mine even if I'm spot on. You see yourself in a different light and I would have to trust your honesty...two major obstacles. I'll keep my opinion of you to myself as to avoid a childish confrontation complete with denials and accusations.

 

[lightgigantic]

Wow!!! How far the mighty have fallen. Are you running out of options? Silly parlor games & the parapsychological taking over from what once was serious thought. Religious philosopher resorting to impassioned pleas over a faceless internet for a description of oneself is a gigantic step down from perspicaciousness. There are certain inherent difficulties faced by anyone who tries to give an honest opinion of another when all one has to go on is a name (username) and a style of argument.

Not that I can't try and have some fun with it but I doubt you would be very receptive to anything critical. Your opinion of yourself will differ from mine even if I'm spot on. You see yourself in a different light and I would have to trust your honesty...two major obstacles. I'll keep my opinion of you to myself as to avoid a childish confrontation complete with denials and accusations.

...just as well the astrologer wasn't daunted about presenting his readings to skeptics ....

 

[greenberg]

Wow!!! How far the mighty have fallen. Are you running out of options? Silly parlor games & the parapsychological taking over from what once was serious thought. Religious philosopher resorting to impassioned pleas over a faceless internet for a description of oneself is a gigantic step down from perspicaciousness. There are certain inherent difficulties faced by anyone who tries to give an honest opinion of another when all one has to go on is a name (username) and a style of argument.

Not that I can't try and have some fun with it but I doubt you would be very receptive to anything critical. Your opinion of yourself will differ from mine even if I'm spot on. You see yourself in a different light and I would have to trust your honesty...two major obstacles. I'll keep my opinion of you to myself as to avoid a childish confrontation complete with denials and accusations.

PsychoticEpisode - for someone "enacting a psychotic episode", your displays here are nothing but mediocre trolling.

 

[DwayneD.L.Rabon]

Well.....A Astrologer is some one that Has study more than one human, A real Astrologer is some one that has studied many people from the time of birth to determine how the stars or lotted star signs effect people, and studies to find the patterns that exist within human preformance and personality as a result of those signs relavant to birth and periods of life.
Normally this takes years of exsperince, but studies of past Astologers have complied information to provide refferences and patterns for future Astrologers makeing the practice much easier.
Real astrology is learned by observation of the stars and the person, from birth or over time. (making it rather scientific)

For example 99% of genetic material in plants is considered to be enviromentally sensitive, and determines the growth behavior of the plant.

The math behind astrology can be complicated, but in end it defines the practice of astrology relavant to birth sign as legitmate. For example 70 to 90% of the human body is water oxygen and hydorgen both atomic elements are polarized to the cosmic background constant. So plainly if you where born under a certain Heavenly Sign that region of the cosmos polarized your body when you were born.

It gets even more envolved because DNA bases are also Polarized to the Cosmos.


I could give you a list that would tell you to what part of the heavens every atom on earth is polarized to, if you had it you could see how you actully fit into the universe, even the neurons in your brain that make you think.


DwayneD.L.Rabon

 

[Oli]

Real astrology is learned by observation of the stars and the person, from birth or over time. (making it rather scientific)

There is nothing scientific about astrology.

It gets even more envolved because DNA bases are also Polarized to the Cosmos.

Wrong.

I could give you a list that would tell you to what part of the heavens every atom on earth is polarized to, if you had it you could see how you actully fit into the universe, even the neurons in your brain that make you think.

You could, but it would be nothing more than a figment of your fetid little imagination.

 

[DwayneD.L.Rabon]

Oli..... Thier is little that is remarkable about your comments. you do not even understand the basics of science what you understand is that you can exspress your opinion... And appearantly that is one that indulges in negative commentary as a means of asserting your point. so really you are without content even in your dismisal of a certain occurance, event or fact.
One thing that it show also is your lack of education, and limited vision.... it is you who chose to live life this way you could have a better understanding if you spent the time trying to understand.

I would say that your kind know nothing beyond 2,000 ft and the distance of the sight of your eye, you may be worse as some peoples focus is less than their immediate enviroment say 30 ft which is the realm of a infant.


DwayneD.L.Rabon

 

[lightgigantic]

There is nothing scientific about astrology.

perhaps for one who knows nothing about it ...
watching the video link could be a humble beginning however ...

 

[DwayneD.L.Rabon]

:itold::bugeye:




Hellow everyone, this is Dwayne' MOTHER.. just wanta be clear here. Your replies just plain IRK me , and you dont believe in being decent to the others Idea, theories, comments, .. strangely NON-Scientific.. !!:bugeye:

I Have the EXPERIENCE necessary to quote myself, not just a formula, books or pc astrology program, having done many charts..and reviewed MANY people.. guess what.. there is something new to learn, from the client..or the technique. Id like clear up a few side issues.

It seems non of you understand the process, just one person who studied it so far on this post.
and what he said was true. Math technique can be varied and complicated. Any software program can draw a chart, providing time and place , as well as the date, year, etc.. BUT " reading' is a special process that can start out with formula interpretations by whatever author. Test by accurancy is the mode. Philosophy or mind set of the reader sometimes has to be set aside for objective observation. Noone can do that totally. but judgemental attitudes have to stay at bay. No matter what the theory of interpretation.. only the client can say to the accuracy .

Each Planet and sign its in relates to the development of the person's Karma or Life Path.. HOW the planets work to gether --or fight each other-- determines how self-integration and WHOLENSS the person feels.. The soul of a persona cannot be CANNED.. pigeon holed or stereotyped to SUN sign or any one planet. but AS a whole the astrologer can get a gist of HOW that person is and WHY they came here or even WHAT can happen and WHEN. The skill and experience of the Reader is what matters. Social skills mean something also LOL

No one planet can make or break a person.. but it can raise havoc..until you understand what is driving you you are doomed to make the same mistakes. and EVen the most difficult planetary placement has a positive side: for instance, a genius might have poor social skills which Might make him live in the world of Ideas, math, science , etc.. Often I see minds flowering around puberty.. jumps and bounds.. but as an adult may have stayed "in mind" so long simpler things like tidyness or combing hair so talking to people gone lacking.. Even that is a stereotype but specialness can bring loneliness. And yet glean you a Publitzer Prize or doing something major for Humanity.

Much can be said about the reading technique.. but the honest desire to HELP the client is a MUST. Some will not like the reading but it still might be TRUE.. and Trueth is Dangerous.. it can hurt as well as help. Alot of responsibility and a type of counseling hearts as well as minds. and, I believe we have many futures.. It depends where you are on youre evolvment as a HUMAN being as to how you will accept or work on the info given.. Overall, there is no way.. that humans can be 'stereotyped:.. Science will prove the affect of the waves or gravity of planets pull, etc.. on our bodies.. Everyone knows the MOON pulls on the water in body.. affecting mood and emotions( not to mention WATER Weight hehe) , etc. but do they know how the further stars help or hinder? well, only God knows for sure
The rest of the time you need an ASTROLOGER

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

PsychoticEpisode - for someone "enacting a psychotic episode", your displays here are nothing but mediocre trolling.

Oh for God's sake Greener. Take a pill. How much time do you and LG waste in a day thinking about people represented by a disembodied moniker on a faceless internet. I may be mediocre but you're both somewhat pathetic.

Here's a little John Lennon for you and LG. Never understood the lyric until now.....

Instant Karma's gonna get you
Gonna look you right in the face
Better get yourself together darlin'
Join the human race
How in the world you gonna see
Laughin' at fools like me
Who on earth d'you think you are
A super star
Well, right you are

 

[swarm]

Whether you like it or not, astrology has nothing scientific about it.

It would be nice if it did since that would pare off the deadwood and it would quickly be determined if there was anything at all left, but the plain and simple truth is there is no science involved and the times that scientists have studied it, it came up empty.