Vedic astrologer vs. a skeptic

L

lightgigantic

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Interesting 9 minute video testing the claims of an astrologer.

"I don't think that you can explain what I did as luck, because I didn't see the 9 people at all. Obviously astrology, used properly, has the ability to see certain patterns or core things that I shouldn't have known just from their birth information. But I respect skepticism as the beginning of intelligent thought in any subject. To start out looking in reality rather than belief"

Well, any more skeptics?
 
Astrology is in the eyes (or ears) of the beholder...when I was in college, I did extesive research in to it. There is a mathematical side and there is an interpretation side. The mathematics side is OK as it deals with precision events of the heavenly bodies. But the interpretation is another matter. If one zodiac is in another house...you have both positive and negative effects. It is a crap shoot to interprete and depends on the person...to a point of almost useless...
 
Happens to me all the time, Mars aligned with Jupiter when I was born and it became a foregone conclusion that I was going to have car trouble someday. These guys really know their stuff.

Good Lord LG, what have you become? Is this the real you? How are your eyebrows these days? You know, I have heard many astrologers flap their gums before but never have I heard bushy eyebrows mentioned, not once but twice. 2 out of 9 people had their eyebrows mentioned by this flim flam artist and you don't think that's a bit unusual?

Tell someone that they're good to their kids and I doubt very much if they disagree. All that was required for a claim of accuracy for our snake oil selling astrologer was for someone to say it was a close call.

I can't believe you think this stuff has any merit. Shit man, you're weaker than I thought. Tell me you think this is crap so I can re-evaluate my opinion of you now. I'm friggin' shocked to think you believe this crap.
 
kmguru said:
Astrology is in the eyes (or ears) of the beholder...when I was in college, I did extesive research in to it. There is a mathematical side and there is an interpretation side. The mathematics side is OK as it deals with precision events of the heavenly bodies. But the interpretation is another matter. If one zodiac is in another house...you have both positive and negative effects. It is a crap shoot to interprete and depends on the person...to a point of almost useless...
Click to expand...
I think the guy got it at 77% .... a far sight from useless
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Happens to me all the time, Mars aligned with Jupiter when I was born and it became a foregone conclusion that I was going to have car trouble someday. These guys really know their stuff.

Good Lord LG, what have you become? Is this the real you? How are your eyebrows these days? You know, I have heard many astrologers flap their gums before but never have I heard bushy eyebrows mentioned, not once but twice. 2 out of 9 people had their eyebrows mentioned by this flim flam artist and you don't think that's a bit unusual?

Tell someone that they're good to their kids and I doubt very much if they disagree. All that was required for a claim of accuracy for our snake oil selling astrologer was for someone to say it was a close call.

I can't believe you think this stuff has any merit. Shit man, you're weaker than I thought. Tell me you think this is crap so I can re-evaluate my opinion of you now. I'm friggin' shocked to think you believe this crap.
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once again, 77%

But I respect skepticism as the beginning of intelligent thought in any subject. To start out looking in reality rather than belief

read it and weep
;)
 
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greenberg said:
How?
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basically astrology can offer an insight as to how karma is affecting one and how it plays a part in understanding how one "acts" in a particular environment - of course ultimately karma has nothing to do with the spirit soul, so even a fully accurate insight in such plays of karma can not ultimately enable one to transcend karma
 
lightgigantic said:
basically astrology can offer an insight as to how karma is affecting one and how it plays a part in understanding how one "acts" in a particular environment - of course ultimately karma has nothing to do with the spirit soul, so even a fully accurate insight in such plays of karma can not ultimately enable one to transcend karma
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So a visit to the astrologer is something like a crash course in the science of karma?
I suppose there is a good use to this: people who don't have access to studying philosophy or to understanding it, can get some basic knowledge about it (and with it, some regard for it) from an astrologer.
 
lightgigantic said:
once again, 77%

But I respect skepticism as the beginning of intelligent thought in any subject. To start out looking in reality rather than belief

read it and weep
;)
Click to expand...

I think you've become the poster boy for human psychology test dummies. LG, you're like a guy diagnosed with schizophrenia asking his friends for a 2nd opinion.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
I think you've become the poster boy for human psychology test dummies. LG, you're like a guy diagnosed with schizophrenia asking his friends for a 2nd opinion.
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Oh, Pyschotic Episode, you luv Lightigantic soooooooo :eek: :eek: :eek:

that it bewilders your intelligence!
 
greenberg said:
Yes. What is the point of visiting an astrologer?
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Intentions vary on both sides.

I think a useful reason is to have one's patterns discussed in a less value laden language and also a non-common language. IOW a language where one has less habits. Since 'things' are broken down differently in that language new insights are possible. One can also get a sense of what seem like ongoing problematic issues as tensions between differant portions of the self, or different primal principles. From there potential integration or reconciliation - rather than rigid disatisfying compromises can be explored. We tend to assume the middle or in any case the third option is always excluded. The dynamics of an astrological chart offers many ways out of mental Either or binds.

Disclaimer: I know only a little about Vedic Astrology and my response is coming from knowledge of other astrologies. It does fit with the one Vedic 'reading' I got years ago, but that could have been an exception.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
I think you've become the poster boy for human psychology test dummies. LG, you're like a guy diagnosed with schizophrenia asking his friends for a 2nd opinion.
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so lets get this straight ...

The reason that the claims of astrology are false are because they violate your belief system.

Yes?
;)
 
greenberg said:
So a visit to the astrologer is something like a crash course in the science of karma?
I suppose there is a good use to this: people who don't have access to studying philosophy or to understanding it, can get some basic knowledge about it (and with it, some regard for it) from an astrologer.
Click to expand...

Traditionally people called upon astrologers to help them assess their material situation - like how determining who is the partner of their dreams (or alternatively, nightmares), understanding what vocation one is more suited to etc etc. If one chanced upon a good astrologer they also might get clues about what fortune and mishaps they can expect in life. Basically to visit an astrologer was to gain an insight into one's karma "blue print" ... but after all is said and done, everyone's karma brings one to the point of death and no one's karma prevents them from applying themselves to spiritual life, so astrology does not represent the highest discipline of vedic literature (although it may assist one in developing the earnestness to apply themselves to spiritual culture, since it at least clearly recognizes that there is a power higher than one's self)
 
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kmguru said:
Astrology is in the eyes (or ears) of the beholder...when I was in college, I did extesive research in to it. There is a mathematical side and there is an interpretation side. The mathematics side is OK as it deals with precision events of the heavenly bodies. But the interpretation is another matter. If one zodiac is in another house...you have both positive and negative effects. It is a crap shoot to interprete and depends on the person...to a point of almost useless...
Click to expand...
..... as a further point, apart from the knowledge factor of astrology there is the issue of the astrologer's character. It only becomes a crap shoot if the astrologer is housing strong tendencies in rajas and tamas. That is why teh art of astrology is not the assimilation of data (of which you can get numerous computer programs to perform) but the reading of it. Kind of like there is more to being an exceptional doctor than simply having a book shelf full of medical terms.
 
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lightgigantic said:
so lets get this straight ...

The reason that the claims of astrology are false are because they violate your belief system.

Yes?
;)
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Claims of astrology are no different than claims of the paranormal. LG, this thread of yours has numbed me completely. Never in a million years would I have suspected that you actually believe this stuff is real. The thread belongs in the parapsychology subforum, bushy eyebrows and all.

I'm forced to assume that from the beginning onward that you've been completely out of touch with reality. I feel guilt. I need a beer.
 
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lightgigantic said:
Traditionally people called upon astrologers to help them assess their material situation - like how determining who is the partner of their dreams (or alternatively, nightmares), understanding what vocation one is more suited to etc etc. If one chanced upon a good astrologer they also might get clues about what fortune and mishaps they can expect in life.
Click to expand...

I see. So in a way, astrologers are the more scientific counterpart to grandmothers, aunts, the grapewine, psychology, financial etc. counsellors?


no one's karma prevents them from applying themselves to spiritual life
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This is an extraordinary sentence!


so astrology does not represent the highest discipline of vedic literature (although it may assist one in developing the earnestness to apply themselves to spiritual culture, since it at least clearly recognizes that there is a power higher than one's self)
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... and it also helps to maintain the social order, no? It's not like the vedic astrologers advised people to open slaughterhouses or casinos and such. I imagine that especially the people who were borderline asocial or dysfunctional or otherwise troubled and liable to become misfits could be kept in check at least to some extent with the advice they or their family members got from the astrologer (given that the astrology tradition was strong and respectable, in a way an authority for the "simple people").
 
It's a cold read, plain, simple and obvious. When you listen to the first chick being hoodwinked, Shermer asks her at least four questions. If somebody is going to tell me my horoscope then I think it inappropriate to ask me questions during it.

I would like to see him analyze some Swahili Bushmen or a reasonable facsimile, as long as we know their birthdates. There should be no indication that these guys are what they are as in the video where the whole thing was set in an office of some sort. We can all cold read if we want to and in 30 years you'll be as good as he is.

For instance, somebody gives you a date of birth in an office setting. Through a familiarity with the times we live in I would know that many workers are one half of a dual income family. The older the person, the more likely that they are in this situation or at least were at one time. More than likely they've experienced either a loss of job or have been promoted at one time, marriage problems, kid problems, medical and a myriad of other older adult related problems, even managing unwanted bushy eyebrows. What older woman hasn't trimmed eye hair at one time or another. Knowing a bit of human psychology and mixing it with some subtle questions and voila, you've convinced another one.

I could go on but you can see what I'm getting at.
 
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