USA Torture Report

Your definition is irrelevant. Extreme disorientation is psychological torture. ...
That, like pain, also is NOT a characteristic of modern "truth serum" drugs, which more resemble alcohol in that they make you less guarded /cautious/ in what you say and do. An "extremely psychologically disorientated" terrorist, would not be able to provide any desired information, perhaps not even his name or know where he was or why.

You want to get him very relaxed, lacking in caution so he may be willing to tell you the name of some other terrorist, the location of their "safe-houses" not so confused disoriented and psychologically disturbed that he does not even know his location or name.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@ cosmictraveler

If you see torture as bein effective in makin good people safer... do you thank the police shoud use torture.???
 
OK lets be nice to a terrorist that just blew up 100 people, treat him kindly and make nice with him to see what he will tell you.
 
@ cosmictraveler

If you see torture as bein effective in makin good people safer... do you thank the police shoud use torture.???


There's a difference somewhat in the two. I'd say yes , to a certain degree, but depends upon the circumstances that are happen.
 
There's a difference somewhat in the two. I'd say yes , to a certain degree, but depends upon the circumstances that are happen.

When a grocery store was closed one night it was robed of 500 dollars... two men was seen on the store security camera... Bob was quickly caught an had 100 dollars of the money... but the other guy got away wit 400 dollars... what type of torture woud you allow to be used on Bob to get him to tell what the other robbers name an address is.???
 
When a grocery store was closed one night it was robed of 500 dollars... two men was seen on the store security camera... Bob was quickly caught an had 100 dollars of the money... but the other guy got away wit 400 dollars... what type of torture woud you allow to be used on Bob to get him to tell what the other robbers name an address is.???
No form of torture, but jail time appropriate for a 500 dollar thief, reduced to that of time served or appropriate for $100 thief if that much is not yet served.
 
Let us assume that if torture has been used many times in the past, and is still used, that it is used because it returns results.
 
Is sleep deprivation torture?
If some what more than one dose to themselves occasionally*, yes. Done to extreme, electric shocks applied as one falls asleep, it is lethal. Unless some understanding of why we sleep has been found in the last decade or so, no one knows why we (and most if not all late evolution animals) must sleep.

I searched and found this recent (May2013 article) speculative answer: Abstract Of: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/342/6156/373) is next text in quotes.

" The conservation of sleep across all animal species suggests that sleep serves a vital function. We here report that sleep has a critical function in ensuring metabolic homeostasis. Using real-time assessments of tetramethylammonium diffusion and two-photon imaging in live mice, we show that natural sleep or anesthesia are associated with a 60% increase in the interstitial space, resulting in a striking increase in convective exchange of cerebrospinal fluid with interstitial fluid. In turn, convective fluxes of interstitial fluid increased the rate of β-amyloid clearance during sleep. Thus, the restorative function of sleep may be a consequence of the enhanced removal of potentially neurotoxic waste products that accumulate in the awake central nervous system. " {bold added by Billy T}

I doubt that as if it were true, then people with hydrocephalus, "water on the brain," would need less (or more if the CSF did not flow normally down the spinal cord (inside its tough sheath, called the "dura.") sleep. The normal CSF flow is about 1cc discharged every 3 minutes, via flaps like opening near your hips - sort of "pop valves" if necessary to avoid excessive pressure on the brain (That kills if it collapses blood vessels.) but normally most just passes thru the thinner surface of the lower Dura or into its blood vessels.

I know all about this as APL/JHU made an insulin pump and it runs "open loop" as making a blood sugar sensor that works for even a month was impossible. I did design one that would work. It used crossed polarizer and the optical rotation of sugar in the clear CSF. To function it needed about 10cm path length between the polarizers, so at least three vertebra would need to be fused solid. (The CSF tracks the blood sugar level very well about 50% as concentrated, as I recall. It is continuously produced by some sort of pink tissue (I forget name) that lines the surface of at least two or the ventricles (all four?). We decided to go with "open loop" with patient telling the implanted device what he ate via an external unit was more acceptable. MedTronics sell the pump we designed.

Although it too is just speculation, I think more reasonable reason why we sleep was suggested more than a decade ago by Watson or Crick of "DNA fame" - I.e. our memories made during the day, need to be reorganized for long term storage or discarded - that is a lot of mental work, that should not be interrupted. Much like when your computer software is being up-dated. You are told "Do not turn off your computer"

Summary: It seems no one still knows for sure why we MUST sleep.

* I went about 95 hours without sleep one summer while still in high school. Why is sort of interesting and told here: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/why-do-animals-sleep-version-3.114005/#post-2944987 Posts there relate to the need for sleep too. More details and why I had job at WCHS told here: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/can-you-die-from-lack-of-sleep.141658/#post-3194046 a thread with more about need for sleep.
Finally, here is a correct (I think) & informative video on sleep:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
When a grocery store was closed one night it was robed of 500 dollars... two men was seen on the store security camera... Bob was quickly caught an had 100 dollars of the money... but the other guy got away wit 400 dollars... what type of torture woud you allow to be used on Bob to get him to tell what the other robbers name an address is.???


None, as I stated the circumstances like a terrorist that is killing people and is part of a larger terror cell would be one person who should be dealt with enhanced interrogation techniques. Petty crimes or even simple murder with accomplices should not be either.


I'm saying that time is of the essence when terrorists are doing things which can and do affect thousands of people so that learning more quickly about their plans would be prudent to use enhanced torture techniques. That is only psychological types not physical harm.
 
That, like pain, also is NOT a characteristic of modern "truth serum" drugs, which more resemble alcohol in that they make you less guarded /cautious/ in what you say and do. An "extremely psychologically disorientated" terrorist, would not be able to provide any desired information, perhaps not even his name or know where he was or why.

You want to get him very relaxed, lacking in caution so he may be willing to tell you the name of some other terrorist, the location of their "safe-houses" not so confused disoriented and psychologically disturbed that he does not even know his location or name.
Still illegal and immoral.
 
OK lets be nice to a terrorist that just blew up 100 people, treat him kindly and make nice with him to see what he will tell you.
Torture is ineffective.

Victims of torture are known and proven to simply either lie to their torturers in the hope that it stops, so they end up providing false information or information they think the torturer wants to hear, even if it is false and if true, they can and do end up mixing it up with false information, because they will simply just say whatever they think the torturer wants to hear to make it stop.

So the information is unreliable.

Worse still, torture is immoral and illegal and unethical. We are party to many treaties and laws which directly prohibit torture.

Your comment is interesting, about how we should just be nice to the terrorist that just blew up 100 people.. Do you think sinking to their level of violence, of hating and torturing them makes us better? Are we more moral?

As for treating them nicely.. That has actually been found and proven to be more effective than torture.

But you really need to ask yourself if the torture is for the benefit of society as a whole? Or is it just to get that boot in and make them pay physically and with pain for what they did and call it a means to try to gather information?
 
Still illegal and immoral.
What is legal is what has been authorized. lethal injections, I think are now the most common way to extract the death penalty, as punishment in the USA. I always am against the death penalty, especially as usually it is applied to the poor, mainly of minority groups. - Probably killing more of them that are compleley innocent - did no wrong - than the whites who did murder etc.

I would not find authorized injections of drug that relaxes one's guard / lowers it/ much more than alcohol does, illegal or immoral if they had a good chance (much better than pain producing torture) of saving several lives. To not use it but instead use ineffective torture pain, is immoral. (not to mention: Stupid and vindictive)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm saying that time is of the essence when terrorists are doing things which can and do affect thousands of people so that learning more quickly about their plans would be prudent to use enhanced torture techniques. That is only psychological types not physical harm.

Ok... thousands of lifes are at stake... time is of the essence... you have someone under you'r complete control who may know the informaton you want... what psychological types of torture woud you use on them.???
 
Back
Top