USA Healthcare Reform, what about homeless?

darksidZz

Valued Senior Member
I'm slightly confused by the healthcare bill that was passed and should be in effect in 2014 where everyone is forced to pay into health insurance. Exactly what happens to homeless? They would have no money to pay so would they instantly be fined? Do the fines build up over time? Are they going to prison if they don't pay? I'm just curious.
 
I think they'd get free care because they have no income...or if they do have an income, it's too small to let them get a home, so they're still really poor.
Not everybody has to pay in-the really poor get medicaid. The kinda poor get subsidized insurance.

Right now I qualify for reduced cost care with the county b/c I don't make much...county care's crappy.

So the really poor and homeless will probably...keep lurching along with the same level of care that's been shortening their lifespan all along. There you have it folks.

Edited to add-part of the reason I tried to just pay out-of-pocket for so long? The county system gives me an abiding feeling that someone, somewhere, considers me excess population.
It's not a feeling that inspires confidence in the interns who actually do all the work with almost no supervision.
So one bureaucrat sees us as excess population because we're indigent patients, and another bureaucrat sees us as great people for interns to make all their boneheaded medical mistakes on.
 
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I'm slightly confused by the healthcare bill that was passed and should be in effect in 2014 where everyone is forced to pay into health insurance. Exactly what happens to homeless? They would have no money to pay so would they instantly be fined? Do the fines build up over time? Are they going to prison if they don't pay? I'm just curious.

I don't know ? When I was homeless I fell off the radar . It was the only time in my life I truly felt freedom . Didn't have a phone in my hand with ringing all the time , No one to answer to, The food was not always the best , but there is more to life than food for my belly. Beer is good!!!

My guess would be it will be paid by the working class.
 
My guess would be it will be paid by the working class.

It already has been for quite some time. NO hospital is allowed to turn away anyone who cannot pay or doesn't have insurance - the rest of us make up that payment by what we're charged whenever WE wind up in the hospital.

The health-car law doesn't affect that situation one bit.
 
My care gets paid for through a county sales tax, FWIW, and since my income is pretty much my outgo...well, I contribute to that.
One of the proposals floating around at one point was to create a public-option plan, as an alternative to the heath insurers, paid for by a national sales tax.

Admittedly, sales taxes are regressive-they hit people like me who can save little to nothing hardest, but I could have lived with it.

NO hospital is allowed to turn away anyone who cannot pay or doesn't have insurance
...if they are actively dying, they have to be rendered not actively dying.
They have to be stabilized, not fixed, that's all.

If they are merely ill they can turn them away all they like.

So chronically ill people like me? we can pay or just go get stuffed.
 
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This health care bill includes everyone to RECEIVE health care but only those who either are working or own businesses (if those businesses choose to pay) to pay into the system to finance it. You see it is meant to insure even if you aren't a citizen, aren't working, homeless or incapacitated to receive care and assistance no matter what it costs everyone else. :mad:
 
Homeless, destitute people qualify for Medicaid, health insurance provided courtesy of the government. Under the new Patient Protection and Care Act those who are working and not able to secure healthcare insurance will be required to pay what they can for healthcare insurance. They get a subsidy from the government making healthcare insurance affordable.

So the claim that people are going to be fined for not purchasing something they cannot afford is just not true. Healthcare insurance under PPCA will be affordable.
And people will not be tossed into jail for not carrying healthcare insurance. That is another myth promulgated by the right wing and the health industry to scare the uninformed.
 
So the claim that people are going to be fined for not purchasing something they cannot afford is just not true

But they can "opt out" and that's not right if everyone is supposed to be putting in. :mad:
 
This health care bill includes everyone to RECEIVE health care but only those who either are working or own businesses (if those businesses choose to pay) to pay into the system to finance it. You see it is meant to insure even if you aren't a citizen, aren't working, homeless or incapacitated to receive care and assistance no matter what it costs everyone else. :mad:

Wrong again Cosmic. First indigent people today are afforded healthcare through a program called Medicaid and that program is funded by the federal and state governments. It has nothing to do with the Patient Protection and Care Act (PPCA).

The PPCA increases the number of people paying into the healthcare system by requiring those who are not now paying into the system to pay what is affordable to them.

The US healthcare system today is funded almost entirely by the government and employers and employees. Those without healthcare insurance are receiving healthcare, but not paying for it. Under PPCA they are required to pay what they can reasonably afford to pay.
 
...Those without healthcare insurance are receiving healthcare, but not paying for it.
That is how it is working here in Detroit, and there are a lot of folks in that boat.

I also enjoyed the freedom of being homeless for a time, though I enjoy having a home and food more. :eek: Also, I got Southern Comfort instead of beer - beggars can't be choosers, there was a bottle, an offer, and I was in need of something after not eating anything for 3 days.
 
Just who can opt out Cosmic?

WASHINGTON—Employers are concerned about legislation, which President Barack Obama endorsed last week, that would accelerate when states could seek approval to opt out of key provisions in the health care reform law in favor of their own reform measures.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...ooCcCA&usg=AFQjCNH8FeH19DX4QbdXe9FlxTn2Fp0Oyg


EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS.

—In the case of an individual who is seeking an exemption certificate under section 1311(d)(4)(H) from any requirement or penalty imposed by section 5000A, the following information:

In the case of an individual seeking exemption based on the individual’s status as a
member of an exempt religious sect or division, as a member of a health care sharing ministry, as an Indian,
or as an individual eligible for a hardship exemption, such information as the Secretary shall prescribe.”

Senate Bill, H.R. 3590, pages 273-274


There are several reasons why an individual could claim exemption, being a member of a religion that does not believe in insurance is one of them. Islam is one of those religions. Muslims believe that health insurance is “haraam”, or forbidden; because they liken the ambiguity and probability of insurance to gambling. This belief excludes them from any of the requirements, mandates, or penalties set forth in the bill. More...



Continue reading on Examiner.com: If you are Muslim you can opt out of the Obamacare health care reform laws with no penalties - Phoenix Small Business Management | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/small-busin...e-reform-laws-with-no-penalties#ixzz1GTyDdtMm
 
There are also some states trying to 'opt out' via the courts, and I think it was the governor of Arkansas who stated that - failing the court challenge - his state would try to 'opt out' of the union as an alternative. :shrug:
 
EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS.

—In the case of an individual who is seeking an exemption certificate under section 1311(d)(4)(H) from any requirement or penalty imposed by section 5000A, the following information:

In the case of an individual seeking exemption based on the individual’s status as a
member of an exempt religious sect or division, as a member of a health care sharing ministry, as an Indian,
or as an individual eligible for a hardship exemption, such information as the Secretary shall prescribe.”

Senate Bill, H.R. 3590, pages 273-274

There are several reasons why an individual could claim exemption, being a member of a religion that does not believe in insurance is one of them. Islam is one of those religions. Muslims believe that health insurance is “haraam”, or forbidden; because they liken the ambiguity and probability of insurance to gambling. This belief excludes them from any of the requirements, mandates, or penalties set forth in the bill. More...

Nope

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/dhimmitude-and-the-muslim-exemption/

Arthur
 
Well Joe I've posted my proof can't you at least say something?

Well here is your problem Cosmic, there is a religious exemption as you point out. But it up to the administration as to how that is intrepreted. And using history as a guide, becuase this exemption exists also for recipients of Social Security, there will be very few if any exemptions.

http://jacksonville.com/carole-fade...n-apply-exemption-if-he-religious-sect-member

As for Islam, they don't seem to have a problem with Social Security and Medicare which contain a host of insurance products. In fact the legal name for Social Security is Old Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance. Since Muslims in this country have no trouble with Social Security why should they have issues with Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act?

Your claim just does not make sense Cosmic. It sounds like more Republican/Tea Part fear mongering.
 
Well here is your problem Cosmic, there is a religious exemption as you point out.
Your claim just does not make sense Cosmic. It sounds like more Republican/Tea Part fear mongering.

You just can't admit that you were wrong can you. You said I was wrong but I provided you with AN EXEMPTION OR TWO and yet you still don't say I have proven my point.
 
You just can't admit that you were wrong can you. You said I was wrong but I provided you with AN EXEMPTION OR TWO and yet you still don't say I have proven my point.


The exemptions you are referencing are the same exemptions used for other federal insurance programs like Social Security. How many of those religious exemptions are being applied to Social Security? The same number is likely to be applied to the new health care law. And that number is nill.

And your allegation that Muslims would be expempted is just silly. How many Muslims apply for exemptions from Social Security? None.

Exemptions are not automatic, they must be approved by the administration. You are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. There is no evidence that expemptions will be applied for or granted en masse. That is just sillyness Cosmic.
 
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Well, I was really happy that Medicare was there to pay for old Mom's care in the nursing care. "Old Age Security" is what they call it in Canada, and that is what is is.

If you don't like it now, just wait a few years and you will begin to appreciate it for what it takes care of ;)

Unless, that is, you wish to join me in my diet and exercise regimen. :D

*listens to the crickets*

Yeah, that is what I thought.
 
There is no evidence that expemptions will be applied for or granted en masse

But they are available if anyone wanted to apply for them and how do you know that no Muslims won't apply?
 
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