Universe created by God

Yazata said:
And science seems to have rather little to tell us about ethics and beauty, about what we should want for ourselves, for our fellow humans and for the future.
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Religion however surely is not needed to construct ethics, and religion is not needed to appreciate beauty nor is religion needed for the other matters you include.

And it is so easy to forget that religions are nothing more than a particular group claiming they have the answers given by divine relevation and I have no idea why looking to those folk has any benefit at all particularly as they lived in different times with little parrallel to the modern era.

The main question, why? or what is the reason for the universe coming into existence? or what is the purpose of life? can not be honestly answered by any human although religious folk make that claim.

I reject the notion that religious folk know anymore than the dogma of their religion and again all scriptures are nothing more than the written records of human superstitious ancient unsupported speculation.

I suppose religion may pretend credibility if there were not so many things that are simply wrong in the various scriptures and the fact is easy to demonstrate that grave flaws are found throughout...now that is ok if one does not claim that the scriptures are the word of God because if the word of God infallibility is a most reasonable expectation.

So religion is man made and offers no greater ability to answer the crazy questions that ask why are we here or what is ones purpose...

Religion does not help with determining ethics or morals unless one is handy at cherry picking.

Love your fellow man but kill him if you find him mowing the grass on Sunday.....

Clearly the word "inconsistency" must have been invented to describe scriptures...more telling inconsistency is not a problem for those religious folk who cherry pick the scriptures to support whatever morality they deem fit...

I certainly am wary of a book that still contains a direction to kill folk who work on Sunday... and then when religious folk have to face the fact that their book of authority is horrible and wrong rather than acknowledging the obvious facts staring them in the face will go into excuse mode...what were presented as true stories when found out to be clearly not so then become a story that was constructed to show this or that...and if you could find find flaw with the ethic this story sort to reveal the goal posts are moved ....

So it seems all religion is good for is to impose opinion, with out evidence, on views formed thousands of years ago and making promises that will never be delivered.

Not where I will seek morality or how to appreciate beauty.

The thing is broken and beyond repair but most of all simply irrelevant.

It cant answer the why other than by offering wishful thinking guided only by speculation and superstition.
Alex
 
I find the "finely tuned universe" religious argument to be particularly lacking (in logic).

The idea is that our Universe is so finely tuned for life that if anything was only slightly different we would not be here.

One problem with that logic is that of course we are in a Universe that is finely tuned for life since that is the only kind of Universe that we could be in.

The other problem with that logic is that it applies to most everything in our every day lives but in that case we don't find it so amazing.

For instance, if your father met your mother in high school you could say that your father almost went to a different high school but changed his mind at the last moment. Had he not, he wouldn't have met your mother and you wouldn't have been born. Amazing!

Or you had to work overtime at work today and you missed a traffic accident that occurred at the spot where you would have been had you gotten off work at your usual time. Amazing!

Anything that does happen has a long causal chain connected to it. Anything. When something amazing or dramatic happens we remember it and that causal chain. When nothing interesting happens we don't remember it.

Another way to think about this subject is to think how amazing it is when someone wins the lottery yet someone wins the lottery every day somewhere in the world.

Neither the lottery nor the lottery winner is "finely tuned".

This is generally referred to as the theory of very large numbers where something seeming rare happens often given large enough numbers.

This is also why some propose the idea of "multiverses" where each "Universe" is tuned differently. The ones not tuned for life, don't have life but whether they do or not is simply random much like the genetic mutations that occur with Evolution. The good one are retained in the DNA of the more adaptable and the ones that therefore produce the most. The bad mutations kill those organism and they don't reproduce as much. This is more or less random "fine tuning".
 
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Seattle said:
This is generally referred to as the theory of very large numbers where something seeming rare happens often given large enough numbers.
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The discipline is called a "large number of rare event distribution" and is analogues to Lexical statistics, a science developed by NSA...:eek:. (see 45:30 below).
 
The Universe is created by a being . Not a god persay . But a being .

Think of the Universe and this being this way ; this being is a painter , hence needs a platform on which to paint on . So has a canvas ( the physical Universe ) and uses oil paint to express imagination . Oil paint has thickness , three dimensional expression .

Both are necessary to form a space inwhich the fundamental rudiments of reality are expressed . The Universe .
 
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river said:
The Universe is created by a being . Not a god persay . But a being .
This being is a painter , hence needs a platform on which to paint on . So has a canvas ( the physical Universe ) and uses oil paint to express imagination .
Both are necessary to form a space inwhich the fundamental rudiments of reality are expressed . The Universe .
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Unless this painter was Picasso, in which case relativity would not exist.....:confused:
 
river said:
The Universe is created by a being . Not a god persay . But a being .
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I think you are right..and the fact you have no idea who this being may be is not a problem ... but really the job was a big one so I would like to suggest that there be more than one being...I see a team ... now given the huge number of Suns and worlds out there..trillions... all I wonder is how many on the team...in fact if you make responsible say 10 beings for each object we then get an idea of the huge work force required.
And once their job complete what becomes of them. .retired? What did you do?
Oh I headed the team that put Antares together. ..big job..huge in fact..my team numbered in the hundreds.

Speculation is fine but really is there anyway for humans to know the truth of creation...well of course not but never let us admit that as we can never know..but there is no limitation when we can propose any outcome our little minds can invent.

I am only a mug so all I can offer is " I dont know".

Alex
 
Bowser said:
Pain is the work of God, as is everything in the universe. Yes, if I saw someone in pain, I would try to ease their suffering if it were within my abilities. That does not mean I have the power to end all suffering, because it is a natural phenomena, just like death. Do you accept that?
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Thanks for answering my earlier question. Is there anything ''natural'' in a god created universe?
DaveC426913 said:
This is easily subsumed by the concession that God gave us free will.
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If God lets a new born baby die of pain minutes after birth, in what way did the baby exercise freewill?
DaveC426913 said:
If I were experimenting with ants, and I wanted to observe their natural behavior, I might put obstacles in their path and let them sort it out. I would not punish the ones who found solutions to my obstacles. They would be doing what I want them to do, not going against my will.
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So, at the end of their lives the ones that find solutions get the eternal bliss? I think I would rather take death than share an eternity with a god who's sole purpose seems to be the eternal causing of pain for generation after generation. Didn't you say something earlier about bliss being a kind of forgetfulness? Yes, stuck in an eternity with God, I would be constantly wanting to forget what he's doing.
 
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Bowser said:
Everything...including you.
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So, I am a sentient part of god? Then, was god sentient before there were sentient organisms?

A motivated intelligence ? Of all interpretations and metaphors, this would seem the least possible state of being before the Beginning, IMO.
 
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