Trump 2.0

[Roosters for ever]

There are dumb people on all sides That is no reason, however, to castigate all people on the other side.

Sure there are! But there is also obvious validated facts, well supported theories, and observational data, like denying the fact of evolution, claiming a flat Earth, denying we went to the Moon, 9/11 conspiracies, and crazy other baseless woo in general, that can 100% undeniably be painted with the same brush and classed as idiots and mental defectives.

 

[parmalee]

Or they are reading soundbites on SM, e.g. Joe Rogan goading some personality to say something outrageous and factually bankrupt and clickbaity... which will settle into their brains as "the news."

I regularly monitor shit "news" sites like Yahoo!, etc. (on "incognito windows", to avoid algorhythmic tailoring) and even they somewhat reliably report what's actually going on--at least some of the time. I simply don't buy that all these people are somehow avoiding any and all real news, with uncanny reliability--that would take some seriously active doings on their part (and if that is, in fact, what they are doing: Fuck them).

Moreover, I've known a fair number of actually retarded individuals over my lifetime and every single one of them had a moral compass.

Some 30 to 40 percent of Americans are vile, selfish, debased pieces of shit. Sure, they weren't born that way, but decades of indoctrination has made them so. So... fuck them.

 

[Roosters for ever]

Some 30 to 40 percent of Americans are vile, selfish, debased pieces of shit. Sure, they weren't born that way, but decades of indoctrination has made them so. So... fuck them.

Question: Did the act of war with 9/11 terrorism tragedy, contribute to the USA mentality? NOTE: I always try and avoid the term "America or American" as America is a big place, consisting of many individual nations. All American are not all USA citizens.

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

Oh I don't paint everyone on the other side with the same brush - just Trump supporters.

Still just painting everyone you don't like or agree with on that side.

Quote from Jefferson Starship:
"We got something to learn from the other side
Something to give, we got nothing to hide"

 

[parmalee]

Question: Did the act of war with 9/11 terrorism tragedy, contribute to the USA mentality? NOTE: I always try and avoid the term "America or American" as America is a big place, consisting of many individual nations. All American are not all USA citizens.

Absolutely. I mean, the mythos of extreme self-reliance, selfishness, xenophobia, etc. predates all this by nearly two centuries, but post 9/11 America was something else entirely. For years, bumper stickers saying things like "Kill Arabs" were commonplace. It was surreal.

Also, I would argue that grievance culture, which birthed everything from so-called "cancel culture" to that White Replacement Theory bullshit, truly took off following 9/11.

 

[parmalee]

Still just painting everyone you don't like or agree with on that side.

Quote from Jefferson Starship:
"We got something to learn from the other side
Something to give, we got nothing to hide"

What do we have to "learn" from Trump supporters? Hatred? Denial? Hypocrisy?

 

[Roosters for ever]

What do we have to "learn" from Trump supporters? Hatred? Denial? Hypocrisy?

You forgot lying! habitual lying!!

 

[billvon]

A third issue that I failed to mention, is ignoring the Trump's crazy "board of peace."

How ironic based on this morning's news.

 

[billvon]

What do we have to "learn" from Trump supporters? Hatred? Denial? Hypocrisy?

How to beat a charge of statutory rape
How to take bribes, on camera, and get away with it
How to get taxpayers to buy you $200 million sex planes for you to use with your boyfriend
How to kill innocent Americans and get people to call the murderers "heros"
How to get racial minorities (like Somalians) attacked and further marginalized
How to make sure trans people and women can't vote
How to rape someone and then call yourself a victim

 

[billvon]

Still just painting everyone you don't like or agree with on that side.

So you are on the side of "some Nazis are good people?"

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

So you are on the side of "some Nazis are good people?"

No, I am on the side of not considering people guilty by association, especially when you know nothing of them personally I doubt they are Nazis

I had some real conservative friends before I moved who had some MAGA type views. They were the nicest people.

 

[parmalee]

No, I am on the side of not considering people guilty by association, especially when you know nothing of them personally I doubt they are Nazis

I had some real conservative friends before I moved who had some MAGA type views. They were the nicest people.

???

I've read at least a dozen books about Trump. By most accounts, he's usually a "really nice guy"--because he craves approval and adoration. At the same time, he has raped or sexually assaulted a couple dozen women, raped (at least) a couple of children, is actively committing an ethnic cleansing, is complicit in a genocide, and has committed countless war crimes.

"Nice" don't mean shit.

 

[billvon]

No, I am on the side of not considering people guilty by association, especially when you know nothing of them personally I doubt they are Nazis

I'm talking about actual, world war II German Nazis. Do you believe that since you don't know any of them personally, some of them are likely good people?

 

[James R]

At the same time, [Trump] has raped or sexually assaulted a couple dozen women...

Was he convicted of these crimes?

... raped (at least) a couple of children...

Which children? Was he convicted of these crimes?

... is actively committing an ethnic cleansing...

Where?

... is complicit in a genocide...

Which one?

... and has committed countless war crimes.

Like what?

I mean, it's easy to throw accusations out there. But don't you think you should at least provide a little context and, just maybe, a bit of evidence? I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but you're also not giving out any information that suggests that you're right.

 

[parmalee]

Was he convicted of these crimes?

Nope. Statutes of limitations and threats and intimidation by Trump and his cronies have made sure of that.

Which children? Was he convicted of these crimes?

Seriously? Corroborated allegations dates back decadesin one instance; others are documented within the Trump/Epstein files. No convictions, of course, because the FBI and justice department have long made a habit of not following up on these matters.

Where?

Again, seriously? Within the United States--you know, ICE, CBP, concentration camps and deportations.

Which one?

Again, seriously? Gaza.

Like what?

Again... You know, like murdering fisherman off the coast of Venezuela as but one example of such.

I mean, it's easy to throw accusations out there. But don't you think you should at least provide a little context and, just maybe, a bit of evidence? I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but you're also not giving out any information that suggests that you're right.

I generally assume my readers are educated.

Moreover, in the case of WoW--do you seriously think he would even bother to check any citations we offer?

 

[parmalee]

I mean, it's easy to throw accusations out there. But don't you think you should at least provide a little context and, just maybe, a bit of evidence? I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but you're also not giving out any information that suggests that you're right.

Also, if you review my posts, you'll find that I have provided an abundance of citations and evidence for all of these claims in the past. I'm just not in the habit (or mood, at the moment maybe) to do so yet again (and again and again)--especially for someone like WoW, who is dishonest to the core.

 

[billvon]

I mean, it's easy to throw accusations out there. But don't you think you should at least provide a little context and, just maybe, a bit of evidence? I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but you're also not giving out any information that suggests that you're right.

Sure. Here's a few bits:
====================
14. I personally witnessed Defendant Trump telling the Plaintiff that she shouldn't ever say anything if she didn't want to disappear like the 12-year-old female XXXX and that he was capable of having her whole family killed.

15. After leaving the employment of Mr. Epstein in the year 2000, I was personally threatened by Mr. Epstein that I would be killed and my family killed as well if I ever disclosed any of the physical and sexual abuse of minor females that I had personally witnessed by Mr. Epstein or any of his guests.

16. I am coming forward to swear to the truthfulness of the physical and sexual abuse that I personally witnessed of minor females at the hands of Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein, including the Plaintiff, during the time of my employment from the years of 1990-2000 for Mr. Epstein. I swear to these facts under penalty of perjury even though I fully understand that the life of myself and my family is now in grave danger.

I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct.

DATED: June 18, 2016
Tiffany Doe

==========================
Complaint Summary

XXX reported an unidentified female friend who was forced to perform for President Trump approximately 35 years ago in NJ. The friend told Alexis that she was approximately 13-14 years old when this occurred and the friend allegedly bit President Trump while performing oral sex. The friend was allegedly hit in the face after she laughed about biting President Trump. The friend said she was also abused by Epstein.

XXX reported she has a friend XXXX who was a personal assistant to Epstein in Florida from or 1992. This friend shared names of some of the guests at Epstein's parties, to include Bill Clinton and Donald Trump.

At age 16, while modeling. caller attended 8 parties at Epstein's New York residence. On one occasion, caller reported she was sexually assaulted by Epstein. On another occasion, two twin brothers, Allen and Oren, lured caller and her friend upstairs but they escaped back downstairs. Caller stated Oren raped her best friend and a third brother, Tal, raped a 14 year old named XXXX. Caller named other individuals involved in 'big orgy parties" with her, other young girls. and older Victona's Secret models. including Bill Clinton and Donald Trump.

Online complainant reported she was a victim and witness to a sex trafficking ring at the Trump Golf Course in Rancho Palos Verdes. CA between 1995-1996. Complainant reported Ghislaine Maxwell as the madam and broker for sex parties. clients of whom included Epstein, Robin Leach, and Donald Trump. Complainant reported participating in orgies and that some girls went missing, rumored to have been murdered and buried at the facility. Complainant reported being threatened by Trump's then head of security that, if she ever talked of what went on there or who she saw, he would 'end up as fertilizer for the back nine holes like the other cunts.'

Complainant claims to have video of high-profile sex parties. dealings with cartels. and having witnessed Robin Leach strangle a young girl to death at a party.
=======================
Complainant reported his ex-girlfriend XXXX XXXX were victims of Epstein's and one was murdered. While working as a limousine driver. complainant recalled picking up Donald Trump in 1995 to take him to Dallas Fort Worth Airport. During that rife. complainant recalled some of the things Trump spoke about on his cell phone were very concerning and described being 'a few seconds from pulling the limousine over on the median and within a few seconds of pulling him out of the car and hurting him due to some of the things he was saying " Complainant noted Trump repeatedly stated the name 'Jeffrey' while on the phone. One of complainant's ex-girlfriends XXX told complainant Trump raped her, as did Epstein.

Complainant following up after a call with NYPD officer regarding her previous Donald Trump tip, reporting that she was forced to perform sex acts when she was 13 years old and pregnant in 1984. Complainant also reported there were high profile individuals involved in her sex trafficking and the murder and disposal of her newborn daughter. Complainant reported Donald Trump participated regularly in paying money to force her to perform sex acts with him and alleged Trump was present when her uncle murdered her newborn child.

Caller was taken by boat to Epstein's Island. Caller said it was complicated and involved Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Caller became a school counselor and had a meeting with the school principal, Linda Kitts, and a police officer whore the caller was informed there were pictures of herself with Epstein. Caller reported the school was mad at her for not being a Trump person and that the school wanted her to testify and say things against Andrew Cuomo. The FBI and Donald Trump were on the phone during the meeting. Caller believes the FBI has baby pictures of her with Epstein.

Caller reported that in 1987 a friend (Victim 1) was out drinking and ended up at Trump Plaza. Victim 1 saw Donald Trump and wanted to meet him. A unknown man approached her and offered to introduce her to Trump. The unknown man gave Victim 1 a drink and Victim 1 woke up naked and sore with $300 on the bed. Victim 1 didn't remember how she got to the room. She remembered seeing 'a flash' of Trump's face. Victim 1 called the Caller and told her she thought she had been raped. Victim 1 did not go to a hospital to have a rape kit performed because she didn't think anyone would believe her especially because she was drunk. Victim l's husband's business had problems with suppliers and Victim 1 believed Trump was behind it. Victim 1 also started dating a lawyer, identifier's unknown, who was married. Victim 1 had a fight with her lawyer boyfriend and went to a bar Victim 1 left a bar with a man who no one in the bar recognized but who seemed familiar with Victim 1. Victim 1 was never seen again. A few years ago, remains were discovered that matched the description of what Victim 1 was wearing when she went missing. DNA tests at the time were inconclusive.
==========================
[the transcript] was received by the FBI's Washington office with the purpose of setting up an interview with the accuser. The lead was included in an internal PowerPoint slide deck detailing "prominent names" in the Epstein and Maxwell investigations last fall.

The woman who directly named Trump in her abuse allegation claimed that around 1983, when she was around 13 years old, Epstein introduced her to Trump, "who subsequently forced her head down to his exposed penis which she subsequently bit. In response, Trump punched her in the head and kicked her out."

 

[James R]

billvon:

Sure. Here's a few bits:
====================
14. I personally witnessed Defendant Trump telling the Plaintiff that she shouldn't ever say anything if she didn't want to disappear like the 12-year-old female XXXX and that he was capable of having her whole family killed.

15. After leaving the employment of Mr. Epstein in the year 2000, I was personally threatened by Mr. Epstein that I would be killed and my family killed as well if I ever disclosed any of the physical and sexual abuse of minor females that I had personally witnessed by Mr. Epstein or any of his guests.

16. I am coming forward to swear to the truthfulness of the physical and sexual abuse that I personally witnessed of minor females at the hands of Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein, including the Plaintiff, during the time of my employment from the years of 1990-2000 for Mr. Epstein. I swear to these facts under penalty of perjury even though I fully understand that the life of myself and my family is now in grave danger.

I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct.

DATED: June 18, 2016
Tiffany Doe

==========================

Okay. But these allegations weren't tested in any court, were they?

Lots of people commit perjury - and we have no idea who "Tiffany Doe" is. That's a pseudonym, is it not?

Complaint Summary

XXX reported an unidentified female friend who was forced to perform for President Trump approximately 35 years ago in NJ. The friend told Alexis that she was approximately 13-14 years old when this occurred and the friend allegedly bit President Trump while performing oral sex. The friend was allegedly hit in the face after she laughed about biting President Trump. The friend said she was also abused by Epstein.

This would be hearsay in a court of law.

XXX reported she has a friend XXXX who was a personal assistant to Epstein in Florida from or 1992. This friend shared names of some of the guests at Epstein's parties, to include Bill Clinton and Donald Trump.

It seems that Epstein had lots of "parties" and various prominent people attended. This, too, is hearsay, in this instance.

At age 16, while modeling. caller attended 8 parties at Epstein's New York residence. On one occasion, caller reported she was sexually assaulted by Epstein.

This sounds plausible, but was it tested in a court?

On another occasion, two twin brothers, Allen and Oren, lured caller and her friend upstairs but they escaped back downstairs. Caller stated Oren raped her best friend and a third brother, Tal, raped a 14 year old named XXXX.

And these guys Allen and Oren and Tal have been positively IDed and investigated? Charged and convicted?

Caller named other individuals involved in 'big orgy parties" with her, other young girls. and older Victona's Secret models. including Bill Clinton and Donald Trump.

And yesterday, Bill Clinton testified before a congressional committee that he never participated in any big orgy parties at Epstein's. In fact, he testified that he was unaware of any of Epstein's nefarious activities with underaged girls.

Online complainant reported she was a victim and witness to a sex trafficking ring at the Trump Golf Course in Rancho Palos Verdes.

And the complainant has been identified and her story investigated and verified?

Complainant reported Ghislaine Maxwell as the madam and broker for sex parties. clients of whom included Epstein, Robin Leach, and Donald Trump.

And this has been investigated and the guilty parties charged appropriately?

Complainant reported participating in orgies and that some girls went missing, rumored to have been murdered and buried at the facility.

And the facility has been excavated and bodies were recovered?

Complainant reported being threatened by Trump's then head of security that, if she ever talked of what went on there or who she saw, he would 'end up as fertilizer for the back nine holes like the other cunts.'

And the head of security has been identified, interviewed and charged for the threat?

Complainant claims to have video of high-profile sex parties. dealings with cartels. and having witnessed Robin Leach strangle a young girl to death at a party.

Where can we see the video? Who has it now? Is it in the Epstein files?

I don't know who Robin Leach is, but has he/she been charged with murder? Convicted? Investigated?

Complainant reported his ex-girlfriend XXXX XXXX were victims of Epstein's and one was murdered.

And the ex-girlfriend has been confirmed as missing, presumed dead? Has the murderer been caught and tried?

While working as a limousine driver. complainant recalled picking up Donald Trump in 1995 to take him to Dallas Fort Worth Airport. During that rife. complainant recalled some of the things Trump spoke about on his cell phone were very concerning and described being 'a few seconds from pulling the limousine over on the median and within a few seconds of pulling him out of the car and hurting him due to some of the things he was saying " Complainant noted Trump repeatedly stated the name 'Jeffrey' while on the phone.

What were the "very concerning" things that Trump supposedly spoke about? Was Trump interviewed about the concerning things?

One of complainant's ex-girlfriends XXX told complainant Trump raped her, as did Epstein.

More hearsay. Just saying.

 

[James R]

(continued...)

Complainant following up after a call with NYPD officer regarding her previous Donald Trump tip, reporting that she was forced to perform sex acts when she was 13 years old and pregnant in 1984. Complainant also reported there were high profile individuals involved in her sex trafficking and the murder and disposal of her newborn daughter. Complainant reported Donald Trump participated regularly in paying money to force her to perform sex acts with him and alleged Trump was present when her uncle murdered her newborn child.

If Trump forced her to perform sex acts, where does the money come into the story? What was the money for? Who was paid?

Was the uncle charged with murder? Convicted? Who were the "high profile individuals" who were accomplices in the murder? Were they charged and convicted?

Caller was taken by boat to Epstein's Island. Caller said it was complicated and involved Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

What does "complicated" mean?

Caller became a school counselor and had a meeting with the school principal, Linda Kitts, and a police officer whore the caller was informed there were pictures of herself with Epstein.

What kinds of pictures? Who has the pictures now? Are they in the Epstein files?

Caller reported the school was mad at her for not being a Trump person and that the school wanted her to testify and say things against Andrew Cuomo.

Were the school officials investigated? Were they charged with any crimes?

The FBI and Donald Trump were on the phone during the meeting.

Why was Trump interested in the phone call between this complainant and her school?

Has this all been confirmed by the FBI, who were in on the call? What did they say about it?

Caller believes the FBI has baby pictures of her with Epstein.

Does the FBI have baby pictures of her with Epstein? Where are the pictures now?

Caller reported that in 1987 a friend (Victim 1) was out drinking and ended up at Trump Plaza. Victim 1 saw Donald Trump and wanted to meet him.

Did she meet him?

A unknown man approached her and offered to introduce her to Trump.

Did he introduce her to Trump?

The unknown man gave Victim 1 a drink and Victim 1 woke up naked and sore with $300 on the bed.

Was the unknown man identified, apprehended and charged with a crime?

Victim 1 didn't remember how she got to the room. She remembered seeing 'a flash' of Trump's face.

I remember seeing a flash of Trump's face. Maybe you do, too.

Victim 1 called the Caller and told her she thought she had been raped.

Was victim 1 identified and interviewed? Was she raped?

Victim 1 did not go to a hospital to have a rape kit performed because she didn't think anyone would believe her especially because she was drunk.

So the rape wasn't confirmed, but the fact that victim 1 claimed that she was raped was confirmed. Okay.

Victim l's husband's business had problems with suppliers and Victim 1 believed Trump was behind it.

Was this investigated? What did the investigation find? Was Trump behind it?

Victim 1 also started dating a lawyer, identifier's unknown, who was married.

How does this relate to Trump?

Victim 1 had a fight with her lawyer boyfriend and went to a bar Victim 1 left a bar with a man who no one in the bar recognized but who seemed familiar with Victim 1. Victim 1 was never seen again.

How does this relate to Trump?

A few years ago, remains were discovered that matched the description of what Victim 1 was wearing when she went missing. DNA tests at the time were inconclusive.

So it wasn't confirmed that the remains belonged to Victim 1?

[the transcript] was received by the FBI's Washington office with the purpose of setting up an interview with the accuser.

Was an interview set up with the accuser?

The lead was included in an internal PowerPoint slide deck detailing "prominent names" in the Epstein and Maxwell investigations last fall.

Okay. Was it just a lead - a pointer towards a possible investigation, or was an investigation conducted?

The woman who directly named Trump in her abuse allegation claimed that around 1983, when she was around 13 years old, Epstein introduced her to Trump, "who subsequently forced her head down to his exposed penis which she subsequently bit. In response, Trump punched her in the head and kicked her out."

Was Trump charged?

---

What significance do you place on all these allegations, billvon, and why?

 

[parmalee]

Sure. Here's a few bits...

I'm growing increasingly disgusted by the practices of so many media outlets describing certain episodes--especially with respect to Trump--as "unsubstantiated", when in fact many such episodes are corroborated by a person or persons to whom the victim(s) related their accounts at the time, or shortly after. That is "substantiation"! The repeated failures of the DOJ, FBI, and other law enforcement entities to follow up on these accusations does in no sense lessen the veracity of these accounts. And, I should add, these failures to follow up took place under multiple administrations.

Moreover, in the absence of "hard evidence", preponderance of circumstantial evidence, established patterns of behavior, partial admissions in a general sense by the perpetrators themselves--either knowingly, i.e., on Howard Stern, The View, Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, etc., or unknowingly (hot mics on Access Hollywood, for instance)--and allegations by the victims along with corroboration from their associates are what we have to work with and such absolutely constitutes "evidence" both in the legal sense and in a more common-sensical sense.