Trump 2.0

Jimmy Kimmel comment on Turnip's Great Gatsby themed party, last Friday:

"You know, throwing a party at your private golf club where the theme is rich white people hours before millions of Americans are set to lose their food assistance might be the Trumpiest Trump move of all time. It felt like the last big bash before the Epstein files come out.”

In a less than kindly mode, I imagined the party goers reenacting the conclusion of Fitzgerald's novel, with you know who as Gatsby. Maybe the props manager screws up...
 
Jimmy Kimmel comment on Turnip's Great Gatsby themed party, last Friday:

"You know, throwing a party at your private golf club where the theme is rich white people hours before millions of Americans are set to lose their food assistance might be the Trumpiest Trump move of all time. It felt like the last big bash before the Epstein files come out.”

In a less than kindly mode, I imagined the party goers reenacting the conclusion of Fitzgerald's novel, with you know who as Gatsby. Maybe the props manager screws up...
Something often dismissed or ignored entirely in discussions about justice is that vengeful and/or retributive justice are, in fact, forms of justice. They are perhaps suboptimal and deeply flawed for any number of reasons, but in consideration of the vast chasm between such and restorative justice--and the reality that in present circumstances, the latter is all but an impossibility (imho)--we've gotta ask: well, what else is there?

I always find myself equal parts amused and repulsed by the glaring hypocrisy of those who consistently and reliably offer up faux outrage at even the remotest hint of a suggestion that retributive justice may well be, in certain circumstances, the ideal and preferred form of redress, even when such is practically problematic (as is very often the case)--whether such comes from the fuckwits who think a bunch of math teachers wearing bloodied t-shirts saying "problem solved" on freaking Halloween are somehow mocking their revered piece of shit martyr or from the resident anti-semite/defender of rape advocates (and his "administrating" apologist). I mean, they never seem to suggest any viable alternatives--the former perhaps offering "thoughts and prayers", while the latter seem to possess eternal faith in the possibility for "rational" discussion or dialogue (whilst amusingly blind to their own shortcomings in that particular regard).

Sure, with the various forms of democracy, voting is often a somewhat viable tool for delivering some semblance of some form of justice or redress; until one can either no longer or you discover that your "vote" simply don't mean shit anymore, and then you're back to: well, what else is there?

But with regards to the Epstein files? Frankly, I've got near zero doubt that The Rapist has, in fact, also raped adolescents. But suppose we get actual photographic evidence, with fingerprints and dna and all that, are the 37 percent even gonna care? And I've got even less hope with respect to any and all matters pertaining to Mossad, shady financial dealings, and what have you--these people don't give two shits about public perceptions (as far as "approval" goes), nor--as we've already seen--what the courts and the laws mandate. It's "game over" for conventional methods of countering shitty governance.
 
!! LTNS!!!
Love the New Suit?

Learn to Negotiate Socks?

Anyway, congratulations on posting only five times in 12 years here. You have elevated brevity to Zen levels.

Wait, wait, I've got it! Live to Nullify Speech.
 
Love the New Suit?

Learn to Negotiate Socks?

Anyway, congratulations on posting only five times in 12 years here. You have elevated brevity to Zen levels.

Wait, wait, I've got it! Live to Nullify Speech.
I got it. Don't think you have met babe yet ;-)
:)
 
Love the New Suit?

Learn to Negotiate Socks?

Anyway, congratulations on posting only five times in 12 years here. You have elevated brevity to Zen levels.

Wait, wait, I've got it! Live to Nullify Speech.
New Kids on the Block.
 
I got it. Don't think you have met babe yet ;-)
:)
I got it...about five seconds after hitting post. Long time no see. Spouse absconded with the rest of the coffee, in s thermos. I mean that the coffee was in a thermos, not that she used a thermos as means of transportation.
 
Love the New Suit?

Learn to Negotiate Socks?

Anyway, congratulations on posting only five times in 12 years here. You have elevated brevity to Zen levels.

Wait, wait, I've got it! Live to Nullify Speech.
London Transport Never Sleeps.

Laddered Tights Not Sexy
 
So the shutdown has become the longest in history, with no signs of resolution that I'm aware of. The republicans are claiming that the Dems want to fund billions in healthcare, through the ACA, to illegal immigrants. Most know, or should know, that the ACA is not open to illegals, and that one must be documented to receive it. But what I only just found out is that one's application must be vetted. And who does the checking? None other than Homeland Security.
Why, therefore, are the Republicans not hauling the dog-shooter Noem in front of them to answer questions as to why her department is not doing its job and allowing, if what they are claiming is correct, all these undocumented people to be getting free healthcare? Is it, perchance, because it's a load of bollox, as most should understand it to be?
A bigger question might be why the Democrats are not pushing back on this as hard as they might, why they are not holding this out as a clear indication of the Republicans talking out of their arse?

And how long will this shutdown go on? 50 days? 100?? At what point, if any, does it really start to impact matters beyond what can then be recovered? They've already started warning of travel disruption for the holidays due to airport staffing (or some such). What else? And how bad?
 
And how long will this shutdown go on? 50 days? 100?? At what point, if any, does it really start to impact matters beyond what can then be recovered? They've already started warning of travel disruption for the holidays due to airport staffing (or some such). What else? And how bad?
"Look, mummy--there's an airplane up in the sky!"

I can't really figure out why the Republicans even care about the shutdown--to them, the government is all just waste and fraud anyway. Besides, they still get to murder fishermen off the coast of Venezuela; abduct, torture (and kill?) and disappear alleged undocumented alleged immigrants; and harass, bully, intimidate and teargas protestors, journalists and school children.
 
psg-10-helpweareangels-detail-bw.png


Look, man, people like you are the reason this is happening.

Really, to hear Republicans tell it, your American equivalent is the reason this is happening.

To wit, on supremacism and priority

It seems to me you are falling into the simplistic Manichaean trap that I've often come across with Americans: classifying fellow citizens as "good" or "bad" people, when almost everyone is a complex mixture of the two.

‡​

I think it is more reasonable to see these people as misinformed victims (they do mostly seem fairly inarticulate and dim when they are interviewed) than as "bad".

And, quite apart from anything else, stigmatising them as "bad" suggests a preference for civil war (against the bad guys) to democracy (i.e. making the effort of persuasion to change people's minds and voting intentions).

—complaining that a liberal argument falls into a dualistic trap is hardly innovative, and neither is the clumsy flip of narrative about a political faction that has been chomping at the bit for political violence for over fifteen years, now, nor, in discussion of political behavior—

There are none in what you have posted, so far as I can see.

I'm not sure I can easily envisge this.

—is your reliance on unprovable negative assertions unfamilar; thus—

Oh I'm definitely a TERF. I think J K Rowling is spot-on. But that's another subject. :biggrin:

—some things just aren't surprising—

I have spent most of my life thinking of myself as a "pink Tory" but find myself now a committed Labour voter, not because my views have changed but because the Tories have gone charging off to the populist far right.

—and, quite frankly, look at what it takes for Labour to satisfy pink Tories.

Furthermore, the difference between you thinking Rowling is spot-on and what the religious crackpots do is the difference between "intelligent design" and creationism. That is, sure, I get you aren't among the religious crackpots, and all, but backing the godless, celebrity, populist reiteration isn't any different. (And go ahead and remind you don't support "intelligent design", but the analogy becomes supporting a celebrity intelligent design supporter because you just don't like the people who disagree with them.)

You found your threshold, the point at which science is no longer sufficient to suit your preferred beliefs. As a personal matter, so what; as a larger political question, yes, people like you are the reason this is happening. Thing is, no part of history describes anyone selectively empowering one small part of irrationality as a matter of public policy and successfully containing its infliction to their personal aesthetics and need. And you're actually smart enough to know this. All the misery that comes with is part of the package.

†​

Try it this way: A whole lotta people for whom it was about owning the libs didn't vote for what's happening when they voted to own the libs because they didn't really think it through. Their identity politic, their need to drink and bathe in liberal tears was really, really empowering until the feds came to arrest their gardener, their nurse, their wife. It was all good enough until Trump ruined their economic circumstance with tariffs, labor-pool raids, and now the food that isn't on their table because Trump says no.

And when the damage is done, and American survivors crawl out from under their self-inflicted rubble, people like you are still going to blame liberalism. In your case, it's what, transgender and some simplistic Manichean trap; however, compared to being a pink Tory watching the Party suddenly and inexplicably run a long mile off a short rightist pier, we Americans have the records of our conservative heritage depending on supremacism, and it's not a matter of when to start, but, rather, which periods to include for which discussion. For instance, the time of the Southern Strategy, the last sixty-some years, i.e., most of your life and more than mine, is pretty well recorded. For us, the GOP didn't so much run blindly into an abyss as achieve a long-sought goal. They fulfilled what conservatives have been working toward since McCarthyism (ca. 1950), at least.¹

There are plenty of reasons why this or that person might not know; they're young, they never studied history, they're half a world away, &c. But there are also plenty of Americans who ought to know better. The actual know-nothing parade among Congressional Republicans that is finally starting to get some attention because it has become so particular and consistent is not new.

Aldous Huxley↗, a hundred years ago:

The English have never been an oppressed nationality; they are in consequence most healthily unaware of their history. They live wholly in the much more interesting worlds of the present—in the worlds of politics and science, of business and industry.

The mainline American narrative is the same way, today. It's one of the reasons why white (Christian) men are the real victims of history, &c. And for whatever else it's worth, these are the people who are known to hide their supremacism in talk of our "Anglo-American heritage"↗; even our racists blame it on British heritage.

At least think it through. Because all those years when you thought liberals were falling into a simplistic manichean trap, they were trying to address conservative concerns. You're a pink Tory? Yes, it's our American tories, and their emotionally insecure purple vagary, that brought this to bear.

Inasmuch as↗ the past is the past, and can't be changed, but we can leave markers for the future↗, middle-roaders need to understand what happened when we pretended to take their middle road.

Especially the part where Trump voters say this isn't what they voted for; they never really bothered to think that part through. The moral of the story, the lesson of history as tomorrow becomes today, is to stop doing that. Wait, stop doing what? Well, it's kind of a complicated discussion easily swept away as a simplistic menichean trap. Consider the idea of "just because you disagree with them"; what the middle road so stubbornly refused to acknowledge that sometimes those folks over there really are racist. Or misogynist. Or fascistic. You needed to believe in a simplistic manichean trap because you needed a way to excuse yourself: That way, the problem isn't your beliefs or conduct, but other people falling into a simplistic manichean trap.

You're definitely a terf? Yeah, look, that was you declaring yourself a bigot. And, no, looking back at the clues, of course it wasn't surprising. And, yes, it's true, your American equivalent did this. This is happening because of people like you.

That's why, like you, they complain so particularly. He's doing the tariffs wrong; he's not handling the war correctly; they're constantly flooding the zone with shit. Well, we were told up front, so his voters can't say it's not what they voted for. That is, they support some underlying principle, but expect they shouldn't be inconvenienced along the way. And after a while, it stands out that some people easily criticize so particularly but won't address the underlying principle because it's what they actually want. This is as close as they're going to get to the dictator they want, and the only difference is that it wasn't supposed to inconvenience them.

But this is what it takes to be a terf, just like how, compared to taxes, this is always where the self-proclaimed teabaggers were going. (It's kind of why they both need to be protected from themselves↗.) And you're not new; this has been going on your whole life.

So, yeah, it's kind of important to tell you so directly: People like you are the reason this is happening.

And, sure, maybe it was a mistake. But that's the reason to make the point, to leave a marker for the future. People need to understand: You can't just dabble in it; what we're seeing is the rest that comes along with this or that issue.
____________________

Notes:

¹ Even earlier, but the discussion of industrialism and authoritarianism, as important as it is, just makes the moment complicated. Still, of short piers and calculated leaps, it's kind of like how nobody should be surprised about the Starmer government's position on Israel and Palestine; British philosemitism dates back before the twentieth century, and the strain running through the Plymouth Brethren remains important, today, in both our countries, but if we wish to be at least somewhat formal, the Balfour Declaration is one hundred five years old, so, no, we ought not be surprised.​

Huxley, Aldous. Jesting Pilate. (1926). New York: Paragon, 1991.
 
psg-10-helpweareangels-detail-bw.png



Look, man, people like you are the reason this is happening.

Really, to hear Republicans tell it, your American equivalent is the reason this is happening.

To wit, on supremacism and priority



—complaining that a liberal argument falls into a dualistic trap is hardly innovative, and neither is the clumsy flip of narrative about a political faction that has been chomping at the bit for political violence for over fifteen years, now, nor, in discussion of political behavior—



—is your reliance on unprovable negative assertions unfamilar; thus—



—some things just aren't surprising—



—and, quite frankly, look at what it takes for Labour to satisfy pink Tories.

Furthermore, the difference between you thinking Rowling is spot-on and what the religious crackpots do is the difference between "intelligent design" and creationism. That is, sure, I get you aren't among the religious crackpots, and all, but backing the godless, celebrity, populist reiteration isn't any different. (And go ahead and remind you don't support "intelligent design", but the analogy becomes supporting a celebrity intelligent design supporter because you just don't like the people who disagree with them.)

You found your threshold, the point at which science is no longer sufficient to suit your preferred beliefs. As a personal matter, so what; as a larger political question, yes, people like you are the reason this is happening. Thing is, no part of history describes anyone selectively empowering one small part of irrationality as a matter of public policy and successfully containing its infliction to their personal aesthetics and need. And you're actually smart enough to know this. All the misery that comes with is part of the package.

†​

Try it this way: A whole lotta people for whom it was about owning the libs didn't vote for what's happening when they voted to own the libs because they didn't really think it through. Their identity politic, their need to drink and bathe in liberal tears was really, really empowering until the feds came to arrest their gardener, their nurse, their wife. It was all good enough until Trump ruined their economic circumstance with tariffs, labor-pool raids, and now the food that isn't on their table because Trump says no.

And when the damage is done, and American survivors crawl out from under their self-inflicted rubble, people like you are still going to blame liberalism. In your case, it's what, transgender and some simplistic Manichean trap; however, compared to being a pink Tory watching the Party suddenly and inexplicably run a long mile off a short rightist pier, we Americans have the records of our conservative heritage depending on supremacism, and it's not a matter of when to start, but, rather, which periods to include for which discussion. For instance, the time of the Southern Strategy, the last sixty-some years, i.e., most of your life and more than mine, is pretty well recorded. For us, the GOP didn't so much run blindly into an abyss as achieve a long-sought goal. They fulfilled what conservatives have been working toward since McCarthyism (ca. 1950), at least.¹

There are plenty of reasons why this or that person might not know; they're young, they never studied history, they're half a world away, &c. But there are also plenty of Americans who ought to know better. The actual know-nothing parade among Congressional Republicans that is finally starting to get some attention because it has become so particular and consistent is not new.

Aldous Huxley↗, a hundred years ago:

The English have never been an oppressed nationality; they are in consequence most healthily unaware of their history. They live wholly in the much more interesting worlds of the present—in the worlds of politics and science, of business and industry.

The mainline American narrative is the same way, today. It's one of the reasons why white (Christian) men are the real victims of history, &c. And for whatever else it's worth, these are the people who are known to hide their supremacism in talk of our "Anglo-American heritage"↗; even our racists blame it on British heritage.

At least think it through. Because all those years when you thought liberals were falling into a simplistic manichean trap, they were trying to address conservative concerns. You're a pink Tory? Yes, it's our American tories, and their emotionally insecure purple vagary, that brought this to bear.

Inasmuch as↗ the past is the past, and can't be changed, but we can leave markers for the future↗, middle-roaders need to understand what happened when we pretended to take their middle road.

Especially the part where Trump voters say this isn't what they voted for; they never really bothered to think that part through. The moral of the story, the lesson of history as tomorrow becomes today, is to stop doing that. Wait, stop doing what? Well, it's kind of a complicated discussion easily swept away as a simplistic menichean trap. Consider the idea of "just because you disagree with them"; what the middle road so stubbornly refused to acknowledge that sometimes those folks over there really are racist. Or misogynist. Or fascistic. You needed to believe in a simplistic manichean trap because you needed a way to excuse yourself: That way, the problem isn't your beliefs or conduct, but other people falling into a simplistic manichean trap.

You're definitely a terf? Yeah, look, that was you declaring yourself a bigot. And, no, looking back at the clues, of course it wasn't surprising. And, yes, it's true, your American equivalent did this. This is happening because of people like you.

That's why, like you, they complain so particularly. He's doing the tariffs wrong; he's not handling the war correctly; they're constantly flooding the zone with shit. Well, we were told up front, so his voters can't say it's not what they voted for. That is, they support some underlying principle, but expect they shouldn't be inconvenienced along the way. And after a while, it stands out that some people easily criticize so particularly but won't address the underlying principle because it's what they actually want. This is as close as they're going to get to the dictator they want, and the only difference is that it wasn't supposed to inconvenience them.

But this is what it takes to be a terf, just like how, compared to taxes, this is always where the self-proclaimed teabaggers were going. (It's kind of why they both need to be protected from themselves↗.) And you're not new; this has been going on your whole life.

So, yeah, it's kind of important to tell you so directly: People like you are the reason this is happening.

And, sure, maybe it was a mistake. But that's the reason to make the point, to leave a marker for the future. People need to understand: You can't just dabble in it; what we're seeing is the rest that comes along with this or that issue.
____________________

Notes:

¹ Even earlier, but the discussion of industrialism and authoritarianism, as important as it is, just makes the moment complicated. Still, of short piers and calculated leaps, it's kind of like how nobody should be surprised about the Starmer government's position on Israel and Palestine; British philosemitism dates back before the twentieth century, and the strain running through the Plymouth Brethren remains important, today, in both our countries, but if we wish to be at least somewhat formal, the Balfour Declaration is one hundred five years old, so, no, we ought not be surprised.

Huxley, Aldous. Jesting Pilate. (1926). New York: Paragon, 1991.
:biggrin:
 
A bigger question might be why the Democrats are not pushing back on this as hard as they might, why they are not holding this out as a clear indication of the Republicans talking out of their arse?
The democrats are definitely flubbing this.

To be fair, though, they did offer a compromise today. Republicans rejected it in order to keep the government shut down.
 
(pwning the stool)

Ron Filipkowski↱ observes, "Good tweet-length summary from a conservative talk show host."

Or, per right-wing talk show host and former city councilman Erick Erickson↱:

Tariffs have negatively impacted everything from the grocery prices to wage growth and much of the institutional right that long opposed tariffs now refuse to speak out against tariffs because they want a seat at Trump's table. They stopped speaking against antisemitism because they thought that'd attract young men to them. And now they're complicit in corrupting the right's understanding of both economics and morality — so cutting off all the legs of the stool to own the left.

And, you know, it's one thing if I might say so↑: A whole lotta people for whom it was about owning the libs didn't vote for what's happening when they voted to own the libs because they didn't really think it through.

But, y'know, just maybe: Will you hear it from the actual conservative propagandist? That the "institutional right … stopped speaking against antisemitism because they thought that'd attract young men to them" and along the way became "complicit in corrupting the right's understanding of both economics and morality — so cutting off all the legs of the stool to own the left".

 
So it seems that the Republicans in the senate have finally tried to do their job, and have seemingly reached a compromise with a sufficient number of Democrats to start the process of ending the shutdown. They appear to have targeted two Dems and an Independent, and have offered funding of SNAP (which is likely illegal not to fund at this point, although SCOTUS did just put an administrative stay on the need to fund), but also the "promise" to hold a vote on the continued funding of the ACA stuff (the funding that will stop the cost of healthcare tripling or worse for millions).
Many of the other Dems have been dismayed that their colleagues have caved in for what seems to them to be inadequate offerings, but, well, when it only takes 3 to flip, the Reps only need to target the "weakest", so to speak.

However, this is only the start of the process, and the House will need to ratify any deal, and that is certainly not a foregone conclusion.

But still, 40 days and counting. Gotta be proud of breaking records, I guess. :rolleyes:
 
So it seems that the Republicans in the senate have finally tried to do their job, and have seemingly reached a compromise with a sufficient number of Democrats to start the process of ending the shutdown. They appear to have targeted two Dems and an Independent, and have offered funding of SNAP (which is likely illegal not to fund at this point, although SCOTUS did just put an administrative stay on the need to fund), but also the "promise" to hold a vote on the continued funding of the ACA stuff (the funding that will stop the cost of healthcare tripling or worse for millions).
Many of the other Dems have been dismayed that their colleagues have caved in for what seems to them to be inadequate offerings, but, well, when it only takes 3 to flip, the Reps only need to target the "weakest", so to speak.

However, this is only the start of the process, and the House will need to ratify any deal, and that is certainly not a foregone conclusion.

But still, 40 days and counting. Gotta be proud of breaking records, I guess. :rolleyes:
At least we can come here and have you explain it to us.:)
 
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