Trump 2.0

You don't understand judicial ethics or the recusal process. Or the implications of receiving lavish gifts and paid vacations from someone involved in business activities which figure in a Supreme Court case. Several other justices have also expressed partisan views which conflict with cases that have come before the Court and not recused themselves. Grossly unethical. I see this and question the credibility of their rulings, and not always in decisions I disagree with. What I and other Americans expect is for them to do their duty and approach all court cases with impartiality and a nonpartisan perspective.
You are saying if you took gifts, you couldn't be impartial. If this is not the case, then accusing others of not being impartial is really just a partisan ploy. Just having views does not mean they cannot hear the case and modify them. I have views and I like gifts, but I am sure that they would not prevent me from giving a proper decision.
The only time a judge need recuse themselves is if they consider that they cannot make a proper decision. That's the only real ethics needed. The rest is all window dressing.
 
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No, you really can't.

If you are a judge on a court case between a construction company and a homeowner, and you accept a half million dollar vacation from the construction company after the trial starts, and you rule against the homeowner, then pretty much any appeals court in the world (not just the US) would throw out the judgment. Because you were paid by one side and you ruled against the other.

Google 18 U.S. Code § 201 if you don't believe me.
Actually, I could. But I guess you couldn't.
And if the Congress thinks a Supreme is doing wrong or a decision is wrong, they have potential remedies.
As for a lower court decision, if an appeals court disagrees with my decision, so be it, as long as the disagreement is on substance and not gift taking.
 
There is no law against gifts, just bribery.

You can easily support that claim by (1) showing the law, and (2) discussing how various "gifts" do not violate the "bribery" standard.

There are reasons why so few of Trump's defenders are trying this line. If you were actually paying attenition and not just talking out of your solipsism, you would understand what they are.
 
There is no law against gifts, just bribery. I guess you might have criminal tendencies to think you couldn't rule against someone who gives you gifts.
If there is any intent from the gift giver of a quid pro quo, then it is bribery if you accept it. Do you actually believe people would just give you gifts without expecting something in return?
 
The thing about people in power is that, not only should they behave ethically but that they should also be seen to behave ethically. So it's not good enough just saying that a gift didn't, or wouldn't, influence a decision.There should also be a lack of opportunity to even raise the question of whether it has done. I.e. by not accepting gifts.

The fact that SCOTUS, for example, have declined to set an ethics standard for themselves that is either binding or is policed externally is telling. Instead, a non-binding code of conduct that they themselves will police is the best they can offer. So, yup, all gifts are welcome, and if you happen to think that a certain large gift persuaded them to a certain position on a certain topic... tough luck, sucker!
;)
 
It's Not Quite Electric Sheep, But …

I confess, I'm feeling cynical. Thus—

Do you actually believe people would just give you gifts without expecting something in return?

—I don't know, man, do you think he's actually thought it through?

He doesn't seem to recognize any particular concept involved, just a generic differention of circumstance. Here's an important phrase: "the appearance of impropriety". Judges are supposed to avoid it explicitly, but its presence in the actions of other officials, such as a president or legislator or prosecutor, while not outright forbidden, creates material questions about the actions of public institutions.

In this context, WoW does not seem able to discern the appearance of impropriety.

†​

A'ight, so, you're (Q), which means you ought to be able to remember part of our common experience from once upon a time: The idea of expecting evidence to support extraordinary claims is not itself extraordinary. After all, the old saying is extraordinary evidence to support extraordinary claims. But, sure, y'know, like, "God", and starting with something more than a fallacy and the weight of uncertainty.

But what about claims that don't involve God, or magic, or legendary creatures, &c.?

Yeah, what our neighbor is doing now is what happens if we're so worried about stifling political views that it's unfair to expect people to support their arguments. And over time, we find that need tends to work in certain, particular ways.

I mean, it's one thing if creationists need fake science, and anti-abortion folks need medical quackery; and, sure, there is no "gay gene", but that's a fallacy, just like the political point that there is no explicit right to privacy in the U.S. Constitution¹; there's a whole bunch of people upset about the number of sexes that exist; and for the rest, a catch-all in sincerely held beliefs and the transition to alternative facts.

Oh, right, it's one thing if, but maybe at some point that is the point, that certain arguments are insupportable.

Still, the question persists: What political view would we be suppressing by expecting a rational, supported explanation of what our neighbor means?

Think of it this way, WOW very likely doesn't know how badly he just insulted Justice Alito in re Loomer.
____________________

Notes:

¹ i.e., Some circumstances are cumulative effects, resulting from the coincidence of multiple factors. (And if we take a moment to think about the fact that some people might actually need that explanation, a few unsettling, even foreboding, questions arise.)​
 
Think of it this way, WOW very likely doesn't know how badly he just insulted Justice Alito in re Loomer.
Alito's recusal from a case where P&G is one defendant (via their ban list given to Meta) almost makes me think he is taking that new ethics code (the unenforceable one) to heart. Then again, it's easier to sit one out when you know your fellow eight aren't likely to accept such an appeal based on an absurd attempt to use RICO. His recusal makes no difference.

When it came to hedge fund billionaires with something like ten cases before SCOTUS, Alito didn't seem quite so squeaky clean. He did not recuse himself from these cases, and in one instance, he voted in favor of Paul Singer, who received a $2.4 billion payout. And had given Sammy some really nice bribes
gifts. But, hey, he was younger then and hadn't heard of ethics yet.
 
There are reasons why so few of Trump's defenders are trying this line. If you were actually paying attenition and not just talking out of your solipsism, you would understand what they are.
I checked my dogeared copy of Gray's Anatomy - they seem to have a different term for that. ;)
 
I have views and I like gifts, but I am sure that they would not prevent me from giving a proper decision.
Perhaps this is a matter of perspective...

While certain exemplary individuals such as yourself, possessing flawless morals and guided by an impeccable sense of ethics, are capable of maintaining unquestionable impartiality, this is not always the case with lesser humans.

I ask you to consider a hypothetical scenario wherein you are to be judged by a tribunal of these folks, with your property, liberty, or even your life, on the line.

Furthermore, let's assume that your adversary's wealth and power far outstrips your own.

Would it instill warm and cozy feelings if these jurists were permitted to receive substantial "presents" from your opponents, even though they pinky promised not to be influenced by such?

Or would you be more comfortable if they were prohibited by law from accepting gifts?

Remember, I'm asking a relative question here - which would you rather the case be?

You may well answer that you would be perfectly happy with either situation, that you trust your fellow man unconditionally.

But, see, here's the thing - we won't believe you - you are neither that stupid nor that naive.
 
There is no doubt that honor has been compromised in lots of occasions in court cases, usually by attorneys and also by judges.

However, sometimes justice works fine even when bribery was the vedette for a final verdict.

This is the case of a young guy. He encountered with former high school classmates who decided not to keep studying but kept living in their parents' home and making money assaulting people or business. They convinced the young guy of this store to rob a gas station located a few miles from the city. Our young guy accepted and there they went. One of that group had a gun without bullets, but that was enough to intimidate the victims. In those days there weren't security cameras like today, this event happened in the 80s.

After forcing the gas station attendant to give them the money, they split in different directions to meet later in the house of the leader of the group. Our guy, an amateur in this business, got lost when coming back to the city. On his way after hours, when was night already, he saw a one floor building with lights on outside. When he arrived to that place, he saw the gas station attendant talking with a police officer. Our guy found out that he reached the small police station of that town.

The gas station attendant turned his face towards him and recognized him as one of the robbers, and he was arrested right there. The young guy never betrayed his "friends" and ended as the only suspect and criminal of the robbery.

The father of the boy never called an attorney, and the young guy rejected similar help for his defense.

On the court day, the father of our guy, managed to have access to the judge office before the trial. The judge allowed him to say what he had to say. The father of our guy took a luxury box containing a gold-plated pen, saying that the pen was a gift sent by his wife. The judge accepted the gift with complacency. He asked who the defendant was. After knowing the name, the judge let the man to leave the office.

At court trial, when the young boy's name was called, he went front and his father went with him. After the accusation was given by the prosecutor, the judge asked the father of the young guy what he will say in defense of the accused.

The father of the accuser accepted the fault of his son, and he begged for the judge to allow his son to enlist in the army instead of receiving months of jail. The judge smiling, asked the young guy if he agrees with his father petition. The younger said yes.

The judge ordered a certain number of days for the young guy to enlist in the army, and such was what it happened. As far as I can remember, this young guy was "reformed" in the army, ha ha ha ha, he learned "discipline", he found a job, a woman, children, at this moment I don't know his whereabouts.

But the gift did work, of course it can be taken as bribery, yes, it was bribery, but what the father of the young guy did, in my opinion, was the right thing, and the judge sentence was the right sentence for a young guy with no criminal records and who by chances in life took once a bad decision.

I understand that this story taken from real events will justify bribery, especially with judges involved, however, when "malice", "fraud", and other negative means are involved with the giving of a gift to a judge, such is what I call it "corruption at its higher level".
 
Ah so you ARE a Trump supporter! That makes sense. Smart people don't like him, and he loves the poorly educated.
No, I am just not a left or right supporter. Just a Self supporter. When I am able to vote, I vote only for myself and propositions. And your back-handed comments about my education just show how lame yours is.
 
No, I am just not a left or right supporter. Just a Self supporter. When I am able to vote, I vote only for myself and propositions. And your back-handed comments about my education just show how lame yours is.
Wouldn't voting only from self-interest limit the ability of communities to implement policies that promote a general good? I don't personally need, say, an arts and music program at my city's public schools, but I know that children who use such are shown to do better in school generally, less likely to commit crimes, and learn social skills faster with better lifelong mental health. Isn't that something where there is a compelling moral argument to act for the good of the community? And who knows, you might be less likely to get mugged, so there's even an appeal to self-interest
 
Wouldn't voting only from self-interest limit the ability of communities to implement policies that promote a general good? I don't personally need, say, an arts and music program at my city's public schools, but I know that children who use such are shown to do better in school generally, less likely to commit crimes, and learn social skills faster with better lifelong mental health. Isn't that something where there is a compelling moral argument to act for the good of the community? And who knows, you might be less likely to get mugged, so there's even an appeal to self-interest
Autrement dit "enlightened self interest" ?

(you can have "unenlightened self interest" too according to someone in Nigeria)


Wasn't someone described as expatiating from their fundamental solipsism quite recently?
 
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