Tipping over

ok Enmos, you are walking in a Netherlands park and then after a while you notice a deer running to you, its' leg is broken, you fix it and notice a tire mark on it, knowing that an evil human did it...you feed the deer, care for it, the deer heals very well...you get very close with the deer, as to let it inside your house.

But then one day you are in middle of intersection and there are two speeding cars racing against each other on two sides against the traffic light...

there is your deer who you love and care so much in middle of intersection and there is a man walking with his stick, you have time to save either the deer or the man...

who do you save?
 
draqon said:
ok Enmos, you are walking in a Netherlands park and then after a while you notice a deer running to you, its' leg is broken, you fix it and notice a tire mark on it, knowing that an evil human did it...you feed the deer, care for it, the deer heals very well...you get very close with the deer, as to let it inside your house.

But then one day you are in middle of intersection and there are two speeding cars racing against each other on two sides against the traffic light...

there is your deer who you love and care so much in middle of intersection and there is a man walking with his stick, you have time to save either the deer or the man...

who do you save?
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Probably the human. But i wouldn't take the deer into my house, and get attached to it. Wild animals belong in the wild.
 
Enmos you are just trying to be accepted in our human-preference ideologies...because you are afraid or retribution from us humans, supreme rulers of the universe.
 
draqon said:
Enmos you are just trying to be accepted in our human-preference ideologies...because you are afraid or retribution from us humans, supreme rulers of the universe.
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I admit that part of my reasons for saving the man instead of the deer would be law and what other humans would think of me.
But most of all, I am hardwired to look out for my own species more that for other species.
 
You guys look like you're getting lost in a metaphorical hypothetical moralistic forest of some kind.

All this talk about evil isn't going to stop the planet from wiping out half the human population. How evil is that?
Sounds "bad" to me, at least for the ones who get buried or drowned or dehydrated or whatever.
 
Vkothii said:
You guys look like you're getting lost in a metaphorical hypothetical moralistic forest of some kind.

All this talk about evil isn't going to stop the planet from wiping out half the human population. How evil is that?
Sounds "bad" to me, at least for the ones who get buried or drowned or dehydrated or whatever.
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I agree, again. Although, it's not really the planet doing that, it's us.
How come we agree on things all of a sudden ? lol
 
Enmos said:
What if 'humans first' means death to all, including humans ?
Wouldn't it then make sense to save 'everything else' ?
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Your thinking is seriously flawed. The scenario you describe could never occur. If humans fuck up the planet badly enough, they may well fuck themselves over and, perhaps, whatever species we happen to be sharing the earth with at the time. But, ultimately, the earth will regenerate itself as it has from previous mass extinctions.

So the idea of killing all the humans to save the planet is utterly absurd and, well, evil. Life will continue on the earth no matter what we do. We ourselves may or may not continue; but the earth can take care of itself, it does not require your genocidal protection.
 
So, there's nothing evil about the planet "getting rid of" humans, but humans doing it to themselves is evil?

The defining of "evil" is a survival tactic. There really isn't any such thing.
 
Vkothii said:
So, there's nothing evil about the planet "getting rid of" humans, but humans doing it to themselves is evil?

The defining of "evil" is a survival tactic. There really isn't any such thing.
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The planet is not conscious. It has no will. Therefore it can be neither good nor evil. Should mankind go extinct, it wouldn't be due to the good or evil desires of the earth itself.

Humans, on the other hand, do have will. They are conscious. They are responsible for their actions and can choose good or evil.

Perhaps you lack the moral courage to define anything as "good or evil"; but I'll go out on a limb and say a wish for the death of all humans is evil.
 
Ok, so instead of a wish for the death of all humans, how about a prediction that will mean something close to: "the death of all humans", or at best a serious change in our circumstances, and unavoidable conflict over dwindling resources?

What if someone says: "this is a warning", or: "guess what? The Earth doesn't really give a flying fart about you guys", say.

I mean, like how other animals in a similar predicament end up, just for argument's sake.
 
Vkothii said:
Ok, so instead of a wish for the death of all humans, how about a prediction that will mean something close to: "the death of all humans", or at best a serious change in our circumstances, and unavoidable conflict over dwindling resources. What if someone says: "this is a warning", or: "guess what? The Earth doesn't really give a flying fart about you guys", say.

I mean, like how other animals in a similar predicament end up.
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We are different from other animals. We can think. We have free will. We may well think our way out of the predicaments you believe will be our undoing. Nanotechnology, solar power, fusion, bio-tech. Who knows what the future may hold. We may well look back on our present concerns over dwindling oil supplies and excess carbon discharges as evidence of how backward we once were.
 
madanth said:
We may well think our way out of the predicaments you believe will be our undoing. Nanotechnology, solar power, fusion, bio-tech. Who knows what the future may hold.
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And all this is going to happen, like, next year?

Or next decade, or the one after? Next century perhaps?
 
madanthonywayne said:
Your thinking is seriously flawed. The scenario you describe could never occur. If humans fuck up the planet badly enough, they may well fuck themselves over and, perhaps, whatever species we happen to be sharing the earth with at the time. But, ultimately, the earth will regenerate itself as it has from previous mass extinctions.

So the idea of killing all the humans to save the planet is utterly absurd and, well, evil. Life will continue on the earth no matter what we do. We ourselves may or may not continue; but the earth can take care of itself, it does not require your genocidal protection.
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I don't share your optimism, however, I do agree that killing all the humans to save the planet is utterly absurd.. but not because it wouldn't work.
If the greenhouse effect gets severe enough it may become a self-amplifying process. While some bacteria might survive, it wouldn't quite be the same..
Even if it doesn't come this far, the destruction of the environment to the point that most of the organisms become extinct is something I consider to be evil.. more so than killing all the humans.
 
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madanthonywayne said:
The planet is not conscious. It has no will. Therefore it can be neither good nor evil. Should mankind go extinct, it wouldn't be due to the good or evil desires of the earth itself.

Humans, on the other hand, do have will. They are conscious. They are responsible for their actions and can choose good or evil.

Perhaps you lack the moral courage to define anything as "good or evil"; but I'll go out on a limb and say a wish for the death of all humans is evil.
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You just don't see the big picture.. the greater good :D ;)
 
madanthonywayne said:
We are different from other animals. We can think. We have free will. We may well think our way out of the predicaments you believe will be our undoing. Nanotechnology, solar power, fusion, bio-tech. Who knows what the future may hold. We may well look back on our present concerns over dwindling oil supplies and excess carbon discharges as evidence of how backward we once were.
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Yes Homo sapiens is so fantastically superior. So superior in fact that we may eradicate ourselves in the process of being so superior.
The biggest problem of mankind is it's God complex.
 
Whatever the future holds, hydrogen is a real alternative today and tomorrow. If we don't try something then we won't ever know now , will we?
 
Enmos said:
I don't want it, and it is quite unrealistic that anything of the sort will ever happen.
I just think it would be the only solution to the problem.
Needless to say I have given up hope.. we're doomed.
Yes 'we', destruction of the environment eventually spells the destruction of the human race.
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This is one of the most scarey outcomes of the brainwashing of society about the "human caused" global warming.
People literally talking about eliminating the human race to "save the Mother Earth".
This psychotic thinking is even WORSE than wars in the past in the name of religious fanatacism. Seriously.

I'm all for a clean environment and getting off the oil kick, but this psycho bull shit that the
Earth is on the edge of distruction, and it's "all humanity's fault" is nothing less than
bull shit propoganda.
 
Enmos said:
I don't share your optimism, however, I do agree that killing all the humans to save the planet is utterly absurd.. but not because it wouldn't work.
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Your morals are seriously fucked up. Even an ant has the good sence to value ant life above all other.
If the greenhouse effect gets severe enough it may become a self-amplifying process. While some bacteria might survive, it wouldn't quite be the same..
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Come on now, the Permian-Triassic extinction killed 95% of all species on earth, yet it recovered. The Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction killed the dinosaurs. There have been multiple mass extinctions on this planet and yet it has always recovered. You think releasing a bit more CO2 is worse than the multiple asteroid impacts, ice ages, and volcanos that have plagued the earth in the past? Really? How about when the moon crashed into the earth? Is driving an SUV worse than 2 worlds colliding?
 
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