Time is NOT the 4th dimension...

Again considering only the macro view, the only thing that did not move was the rock, however without another reference to something that experiences motion there is no way to attribute an empirical duration to the rock not changing position. Please show me if you can describe an empirical reference of a duration that is void of motion.
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The Universe as a whole

Imagine yourself watching the Universe from without

You will find that to the Universe the rock has not changed position
 
We can come up with quite a few definitions of time......Time is the rate of change.....Time is what separates events.....
The dimension of time is as real as the three axis that point to the dimensions of space, and all four being abstract quantities.
That doesn't make them any the less real, unless some just feel like being different and apart to what is generally accepted within the scientific community.

Worth noting also that discussions about the proper definition and meaning of time, has been going on now for ages.

If there is no change, no more expansion of space, there is no time. What would happen if we were wrong [just playing the devil's advocate here] about the Universe accelerating for eternity?
What would happen if the Universe started to contract?....the cosmological arrow would point in another direction, and time would continue.

On thinking on the micro scale of sub atomic particles, I see any movement among them as governed by temperature and 0 Kelvin not being reached...Energy in other words.
If 0 K was theoretically reached, in a body, time would still flow/change/eventuate.
Cryogenics has to do with age as opposed to time.
I have heard scientists say that in the near future, we maybe expected to live to 150 years on average.

Like I said, the debate will continue....have fun!!
 
The dimension of time is as real as the three axis that point to the dimensions of space, and all four being abstract quantities.
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The dimensions of space exist in all things , three dimensionally

Time is not on the same level at all

You still do not understand time
 
And of course the prime reasons why time should be thought of as real, and as I have already mentioned with no adverse comment as yet, There is no Universal now.....What I see on Alpha Centauri tonight is not tonight in another FoR.......and the experimental existence of gravitational time dilation.

Now I have work to do, and not much more time in debating the above.....no pun intended.
 
river said:
The dimensions of space exist in all things , three dimensionally

Time is not on the same level at all

You still do not understand time
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No, you are actually wrong. I do understand time, and it in most parts aligns with the mainstream explanation, rather then yours...which this forum knows through experience, will always be anti anti mainstream, for no other reason, then it makes you feel good.
 
paddoboy said:
No, you are actually wrong. I do understand time, and it in most parts aligns with the mainstream explanation, rather then yours...which this forum knows through experience, will always be anti anti mainstream, for no other reason, then it makes you feel good.
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If you understand time then explain in your own words
 
river said:
If understand time then explain in your own words
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That's been explained in a few posts already, so my advice to you is read them, because I will not be goaded by someone already renowned as the forum troll.
Now please alleviate your obvious misunderstanding about time, and check my previous comments and others also.
Have fun!! :)
 
paddoboy said:
That's been explained in a few posts already, so my advice to you is read them, because I will not be goaded by someone already renowned as the forum troll.
Now please alleviate your obvious misunderstanding about time, and check my previous comments and others also.
Have fun!! :)
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What posts , in your own words ...

Give the # of the posts , such as posts # 30 , 25 etc.
 
paddoboy said:
On thinking on the micro scale of sub atomic particles, I see any movement among them as governed by temperature and 0 Kelvin not being reached...Energy in other words.
If 0 K was theoretically reached, in a body, time would still flow/change/eventuate.
Cryogenics has to do with age as opposed to time.
I have heard scientists say that in the near future, we maybe expected to live to 150 years on average.

Like I said, the debate will continue....have fun!!
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Just to elaborate on the point I made back further up.....Although time encompasses all, macro and micro, I see the analogy made earlier with the frozen shrimp, as rather silly. The presence of heat energy alone governs the movement of sub atomicals, and to invoke cryogenics to "stop time " as it seems to have been suggested has no basis in reality.

Time has many definitions as I also mentioned, and this gives rise to the number of debates throughout the ages concerning it.
I still like my original definition, I have made a number of times, of "Time being that which separates events " as a more realistic and simplistic way of looking at time. This same definition/picture of time then gives rise to claiming that Time as the legitimate fourth dimension, can be said to have arisen from the very nature and structure of the Universe itself, that being space.
Matter/energy is also said to arise from space, or more correctly in this advanced modern age, space/time.
 
Also, it would be wise for some to read Stephen Hawking's BHoT and some of the reasons for the absolute physical reality of time.
 
Maxila said:
Because empirical evidence is clear and it is the default foundation for explaining phenomena using a credible scientific methodology. Only if every possible empirical explanation is exhausted should one admit defeat and explain a phenomena in what is tantamount to saying "it's magic" and defies any scientific explanation. We should not be so quick to abandon scientific reasoning in favor of voodoo reasoning simply because it's convenient to what we believe we already know; otherwise we'd still be using Newtons equations of motion and gravity and explaining their anomalies to experimental evidence as mystical forces too.
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Physics isn't tantamount to magic unless you don't know any. IE you. You keep touting your analysis in every forum you visit. It's irrelevant what you think time is. It's real natural phenomena whose physics is very useful. You're to busy looking for bullshit to learn anything.
 
paddoboy said:
Just to elaborate on the point I made back further up.....Although time encompasses all, macro and micro, I see the analogy made earlier with the frozen shrimp, as rather silly. The presence of heat energy alone governs the movement of sub atomicals, and to invoke cryogenics to "stop time " as it seems to have been suggested has no basis in reality.

Time has many definitions as I also mentioned, and this gives rise to the number of debates throughout the ages concerning it.
I still like my original definition, I have made a number of times, of "Time being that which separates events " as a more realistic and simplistic way of looking at time. This same definition/picture of time then gives rise to claiming that Time as the legitimate fourth dimension, can be said to have arisen from the very nature and structure of the Universe itself, that being space.
Matter/energy is also said to arise from space, or more correctly in this advanced modern age, space/time.
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Time being that which separates events , is not original by you , it is old

It is events , movement by things , that separates

Space doesn't create energy/matter , both space and energy/matter become simutaneously
 
river said:
Time being that which separates events , is not original by you , it is old

It is events , movement by things , that separates

Space doesn't create energy/matter , both space and energy/matter become simutaneously
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Yep, it is, most assuredly, but remembering of course that we all stand on the shoulders of giants........
Now show me something original by yourself? I've just shown you mine. By that I mean, some pseudoscience you have raved on here about, that you didn't pick up from one of your favorite Nexus magazines.
Of course you can't.
Think again young fella...space does create matter/energy.....the BB was an evolution of space and time...where do you think matter/energy sprung from?...And no, they did not appear simultaneously.....well maybe in one of your Nexus magazines, that would be about all!
 
brucep said:
Physics isn't tantamount to magic unless you don't know any. IE you. You keep touting your analysis in every forum you visit. It's irrelevant what you think time is. It's real natural phenomena whose physics is very useful. You're to busy looking for bullshit to learn anything.
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And he aint Robinson Crusoe!! :)
 
Skimming the main arguments of the thread, I have a few questions and a logical conclusion which I hope will contribute to understanding the properties of time as a dimension. I believe by reducing the question to its fundamental known properties, the answer about time may emerge "in time".

a) Can time exist independent of the three spatial dimensions? IOW, is time a "constant"?

b) Is time a causal force? IOW, will something happen if only we wait long enough?

IMO the answer to both questions is: no

OTOH,

c) Can time be separate from the three spatial dimensions? IOW, can we make measurements without "creating" time?

d) Can time be separate from causality? IOW, can change occur without "creating" time?

Again, IMO, the answer to both is: no

From this can we conclude that time is a "result" of change? I believe this is an accepted definition in science. But that does not show that there is an independent dimension where time may be found.

I propose that time is an emergent (temporal) property along with the emergence of (spatial) reality itself. Neither exists yet in the future, but together they combine to form a dynamic constant called spacetime which allows the future to "unfold" from the Implicate to the Explicate (Bohm).
 
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