Thoughts on cloning????
- Thread starter sugarsandz12
- Start date
There is no really good reason to clone some one… Now if we were cloning to make stem cell lines that’s a totally different thing, that can do great things!
I really don't dispute that... at least not with the current understanding of "cloning." But I do contend that there is also no good reason not to do the research in how it is done. Especially by proper research scientists rather than corporate funded researchers.
If there is a way to make a dollar (or a Euro) off of the idea, someone will continue the research. Even if to be the first. It would be better to have proper methodology, abundant peer review, and appropriate accountability systems that we are more likely to see in non-corporate research.
As I said, the spin off knowledge alone will undoubtedly be worth the effort, even if cloning hasn't a purpose. And if it doesn't, then the opponents have nothing to fear, because people won't use the process.
If there is a way to make a dollar (or a Euro) off of the idea, someone will continue the research. Even if to be the first. It would be better to have proper methodology, abundant peer review, and appropriate accountability systems that we are more likely to see in non-corporate research.
As I said, the spin off knowledge alone will undoubtedly be worth the effort, even if cloning hasn't a purpose. And if it doesn't, then the opponents have nothing to fear, because people won't use the process.
I agree with Cynthia...I read many posts that expressed fear that cloning could or would be used incorrectly...What is the correct or incorrect way to us any technology? Who decides this for us?
Most of this fear seems to stem from hominid cloning...I would sure as hell prefer "they" play with humans or apes than viruses. I can avoid these genetically engineered "evil" creations much easier than I can super bugs (viruses)...Oh, by the way, they are already cloning and engineering viruses...
I think the benefits of cloning and genetic engineering far outweigh the imagined risks.
- KitNyx
Most of this fear seems to stem from hominid cloning...I would sure as hell prefer "they" play with humans or apes than viruses. I can avoid these genetically engineered "evil" creations much easier than I can super bugs (viruses)...Oh, by the way, they are already cloning and engineering viruses...
I think the benefits of cloning and genetic engineering far outweigh the imagined risks.
- KitNyx
No...It is not. I prefaced my statement with "I think", defining it not as fact, but as personal opinion. I was rewriting my statement to better reflect my thoughs on the issue. We are currently seeing benefits from genetic engineering, to my knowledge we have yet to create a genetic super criminal.
- KitNyx
- KitNyx
Ok - you're entitled to your opinion. But I still think your language was biased. You called the benefits 'real' and the risked 'imagined'. In fact they are both equal parts real and imagined.
If there weren't any risks we wouldn't be running field trials on GM products. And if the only benefits of GM were the financial gains acruing to the corporations involved, and there were NO other benefits at all, we would still (as a species) be taking those risks on behalf of a few thousand corporate shareholders.
Maybe the benefits will be worth the risks, (although I have yet to hear what those benefits will be in the long term), but let's not kid ourselves that these risks are being taken for any other reason than financial gain. Or do you really believe that Monsanto et al are trying to make the world a better place?
I do not dilute myself into thinking anyone is truely selfless in their effort to make the world a better place (Unfortunately, not even myself). I realize I am switching between a discussion on genetic engineering and cloning, and this discussion is only about cloning. I think the line between the two is very vague, so I tend to get caught up in one at the same time as the other.
On cloning ONLY, I would have to agree with you. I do not know of any benefits we are currently gaining from cloning, so your observation about my statement being biased is true. I do have a biase toward unregulated research. I am not saying research should go unmonitored, only unrestricted.
Unfortunately, I can not promise that I will attempt to correct my biase in the future, because...well...because it is my belief. If we did not deal with opinions and personally held beliefs on this forum then all we would have would be raw math. I prefer to hear people's opinions. Hearing that people believe different than myself helps me keep my biases in check. Hearing other trains of logic help me refine my ideas of morality.
I do thank you for the feedback. Although I do not always enjoy it, getting criticism can always be made constructive.
- KitNyx
On cloning ONLY, I would have to agree with you. I do not know of any benefits we are currently gaining from cloning, so your observation about my statement being biased is true. I do have a biase toward unregulated research. I am not saying research should go unmonitored, only unrestricted.
Unfortunately, I can not promise that I will attempt to correct my biase in the future, because...well...because it is my belief. If we did not deal with opinions and personally held beliefs on this forum then all we would have would be raw math. I prefer to hear people's opinions. Hearing that people believe different than myself helps me keep my biases in check. Hearing other trains of logic help me refine my ideas of morality.
I do thank you for the feedback. Although I do not always enjoy it, getting criticism can always be made constructive.
- KitNyx
Fair enough. I suppose it all depends on whether you believe science is making the world a better place or a worse one. As it is only science that allows us to breed in such numbers as to find GM (and other risky ventures) beneficial I feel that we would be better off doing less of it. But like your view it's just an opinion.
i see no reson why we should not clone humans, or anything for that matter. as far as morals go. however it could be a definitly good thing if the sole intent is to weed damaging geenes from the human gene pool. in that case it would by far do more good by vastly decreasing birthdefects then the bad that would happen by the few that would end up caused during testing.
altho this would also essentially end human evolution.
unless cloning does actually increase the mutation rate and cross over points like im tolld, inwich case our speceis would be seriusly fucked up and perhaps die, degenerate into lesser creatures, or evolve at an estounding rate.
as for the pathetic ethic view that hollds the idea that it shouldnt be done because its tampering with stuff, fuck that. if we werent ment to then y can we? (was adom ment to eat that blasted fruit? hell ya!) and its not messing with it. its coppying it. its damn near what happens naturally too, simply implanting dna into an egg is clonings simplest, and currently only fesable, form (as far as animals go).
now im gonna skip oot and rant a bit. so dont even read farther, k?
cloning can also be used for stem cell research. wich in my veiw is an awsome wanderfull thing. for 1 point its not killing of human life (imho) because the damn cells arent even human left. they have the ability to become human, but there just a clump o cells damnit! now im all angry over pathetic christian morales!!! grrrr...
oh yah, theres no reson why we shouldnt clone, and i believe its perfectly possible. im suprised every1 is so against it. its not doing what god is spposed to do. for 1 there is no fuckin god, damnit!. 2. reproduction is biological, not magic like your parents tell you and as these blasted morons believe, it can be compared to giving a midget growth hormones. you can say "thats gods place! he didnt want him to be tall and thast why the poor blokes a midget!" or you can say "poor guy... hes stuck 3 feet tall for life. i know! il inject him with bovign growth hormones and make him capable of leading a normal life (not that hed want to or anything)!"
an don enginering: i see nothiong wrong with it. hell ya the whole echo system could easily get shitted cause of it. sure we could all die cause some scientist messed up and made an artichoke that spreads like grass and kills off all other life, but whoc ares? i thinkt hat would be kinda fun... and anyway life isnt a scifi movy. what are the odds of it actually happening? fuck all that! science rox and the only way to the futer is to kill the past!
PS. sry for not posting in so long. but the mods were getting rly mad at me so i had to lay low for a time....
altho this would also essentially end human evolution.
unless cloning does actually increase the mutation rate and cross over points like im tolld, inwich case our speceis would be seriusly fucked up and perhaps die, degenerate into lesser creatures, or evolve at an estounding rate.
as for the pathetic ethic view that hollds the idea that it shouldnt be done because its tampering with stuff, fuck that. if we werent ment to then y can we? (was adom ment to eat that blasted fruit? hell ya!) and its not messing with it. its coppying it. its damn near what happens naturally too, simply implanting dna into an egg is clonings simplest, and currently only fesable, form (as far as animals go).
now im gonna skip oot and rant a bit. so dont even read farther, k?
cloning can also be used for stem cell research. wich in my veiw is an awsome wanderfull thing. for 1 point its not killing of human life (imho) because the damn cells arent even human left. they have the ability to become human, but there just a clump o cells damnit! now im all angry over pathetic christian morales!!! grrrr...
oh yah, theres no reson why we shouldnt clone, and i believe its perfectly possible. im suprised every1 is so against it. its not doing what god is spposed to do. for 1 there is no fuckin god, damnit!. 2. reproduction is biological, not magic like your parents tell you and as these blasted morons believe, it can be compared to giving a midget growth hormones. you can say "thats gods place! he didnt want him to be tall and thast why the poor blokes a midget!" or you can say "poor guy... hes stuck 3 feet tall for life. i know! il inject him with bovign growth hormones and make him capable of leading a normal life (not that hed want to or anything)!"
an don enginering: i see nothiong wrong with it. hell ya the whole echo system could easily get shitted cause of it. sure we could all die cause some scientist messed up and made an artichoke that spreads like grass and kills off all other life, but whoc ares? i thinkt hat would be kinda fun... and anyway life isnt a scifi movy. what are the odds of it actually happening? fuck all that! science rox and the only way to the futer is to kill the past!
PS. sry for not posting in so long. but the mods were getting rly mad at me so i had to lay low for a time....
btw about a yr ago some scientists mapped the polio virus and manually constructed it using strings of amino acids, then injected it into mice where it took advantage if living cells and formed fully fuctianle virii.
In light of recenty developments concerning human cloning, we may well want to ask ourselves the following hypothetical question:
If you push a naked clone of yourself off a tall building,
is it
a) murder
b) suicide
c) merely making an obscene clone fall?
If you push a naked clone of yourself off a tall building,
is it
a) murder
b) suicide
c) merely making an obscene clone fall?
Murder: if the clone is a sentient being of human mind then it has all human rights.
ive never really understood this question, it seems obvious to me. A clone (as technology today stands) will be a twin but raised under totally different circumstances and possibly even in a different generation - a fundamentally different person. Is a natural twin a person? of course they are, killing them is murder so would it be with a clone. Its not like a clone would emerge fully grown with a perfect replica of the DNA donor's experiences and knowledge. even if that were somehow the case the instant one person becomes two people, so to speak, they would become different since both could not be in precisely the same place at the same time after the replica was created and they would immediately diverge becoming individuals.
oh buffys ....
What I posted was a joke if you didn't know!! I even put smily faces at the end.
What I posted was a joke if you didn't know!! I even put smily faces at the end.