Theistic Evolutionary Theory?

[Dennis Tate]

What if our Creator in a sense "evolved" or learned over infinite time in the past?

What if our Creator is composed of fundamental or nearly fundamental energy as is postulated in String Theory?

What if Adam and Eve were in a sense "invented" much like we humans may soon, (or perhaps already have invented), Artificial Intelligence?

What if our Creator planned and choreographed an essentially infinite number of Big Bang type events over infinite time in the past, (although time is not quite the correct word because time cannot exist until the existence of space), but anyway..... this takes us off in a direction that has a lot of potential!

 

[Dennis Tate]

What kind of a plan might a Being composed of fundamental energy come up with
after planning and choreographing an essentially infinite number of Big Bang type events over infinite time in the past?


Perhaps a plan kind of like this:

Near death experiencer Christian Andreason, chapter three.....

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

Who goes to Heaven?

In the endbelieve it or not (sigh of relief) everyone gets to come home! I know some people will have a hard time hearing this. Especially those who believe that people who do evil deserve damnation. But you must understand; Heaven does not think as we do. Heaven is a place of ultimate LOVE! They want nothing more than to see us healed and restored should we have been damaged by evil. And to Heaven, those who are hurt by evil or even seen as Souls' who actually do it ... are all seen as individuals who are hurting in the worst wayand in need to repair. Also, do you honestly think Jesus would have asked us to forgive, serve and Love one another without hesitationif Heaven does not do that as well? Think about it.

Understand, God has a perfect system of justice. What comes around, always goes around. No one ever gets away with anything. I can promise you that! What we do not rectify and make right in this life, we will have to accomplish in the next one. The great Christian teacher from India, Paramahansa Yogananda, believes that Heaven does not usually allow us to remember former incarnations because of the challenging Karma we may have endured before. He says, there is no greater "hell" than the hell we create for ourselves though the perpetration of unloving behavior. The energy of such deeds always comes to find us in later lives.

When we have learned how to become individuals that base our entire existence and consciousness around manifesting LOVE, we then become capable of entering the domain of the higher Realms of Heaven while also understanding how Heaven thinks. In the Bible, it is written, "Our thoughts are not like God's thoughtsand our ways are not like God's ways." And without the energy of Love permeating our being fully, we will never even come close to thinking like God.

The bottom line is this: until we practice Love consistently, we will only go so far until we are made to incarnate somewhere in God's Super Universe again and again (unlimited times) until we finally learn our lesson. Until then, we will be allowed to come back home to various parts of the Realm temporarily, so that we can be refreshed, refurnished and taught by our elders, Soul Family and our guides. But once we are done, it is off to work we go!

But what about the people who ALWAYS do bad things in life?

 

[Dennis Tate]

In the Jewish and Christian scriptures this is indicated in Ezekiel chapter thirty seven...
Revelation chapter twenty....
Romans chapters nine, ten and eleven......

Time is not limited to being one straight line but instead will actually end up looking more like the roots and branches of a tree as new time lines are created
that take a moment in time.....
but then every human living at that moment is recreated exactly as they were....
in the first time line.. .but then more of the Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh so that
more and more and more and more of us are led to Salvation in these new time lines that actually
fit with the new Multiverse Theory.....
except that each time line gets better and better and better and better......
and time lines in which worse and worse and worse decisions are made.... will not be permitted to occur!

So this is Theistic Multiverse Theory.....
not the Atheistic or Agnostic version of Multiverse.

 

[Michael 345]

What if our Creator is composed of fundamental or nearly fundamental energy as is postulated in String Theory?

Is it?

Don't think so

That would be like this


Science does not insert miracle or god into formula

 

[Dennis Tate]

Is it?

Don't think so

That would be like this

View attachment 3973
Science does not insert miracle or god into formula

What I mean is that YHWH is the First Scientist......
YHWH is the First Inventor......
but we are biased against this idea because that would mean that YHWH INVENTED SCIENCE......
and our being in the image of our Creator... .helps to explain how we got involved in scientific research.


www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/

 

[Dennis Tate]

Former Atheist and near death experiencer Mellen Benedict was shown
what sure sounds like an organized.... .planned... Cyclic Model of the Universe / Multiverse?


https://www.near-death.com/experiences/exceptional/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a05

At this point of my near-death experience, I found myself in a profound stillness, beyond all silence. I could see or perceive FOREVER, beyond Infinity. I was in the Void.



I was in pre creation, before the Big Bang. I had crossed over the beginning of time / the First Word / the First vibration. I was in the Eye of Creation. I felt as if I was touching the Face of God. It was not a religious feeling. Simply, I was at one with Absolute Life and Consciousness. When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That’s a mind-expanding thought, isn’t it? Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event that created the Universe. I saw during my life after death experience that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating Universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by super computers using fractal geometry equations.

The ancients knew of this. They said God had periodically created new Universes by breathing out, and recreated other Universes by breathing in. These epochs were called Yugas. Modern science called this the Big Bang. I was in absolute, pure consciousness. I could see or perceive all the Big Bangs or Yugas creating and recreating themselves. Instantly I entered into them all simultaneously. I saw that each and every little piece of creation has the power to create. It is very difficult to try to explain this. I am still speechless about this.

This could remind us of chapter thirteen of Stephen Hawking's Universe entitled The Anthropic Principle in which he explains an Agnostic or Atheistic version of the Cyclic Model of the Universe.

 

[Michael 345]

What I mean is that YHWH is the First Scientist......

Seriously? Surely such trivia is moot considering god would be the default first of everything?

 

[Dennis Tate]

Seriously? Surely such trivia is moot considering god would be the default first of everything?

But you would be amazed how Theists can find this simple concept highly offensive!

 

[Michael 345]

But you would be amazed how Theists can find this simple concept highly offensive!

As per Stephen Fry would put it

So theist are free to winge and whine as much as they want

 

[Dennis Tate]

As per Stephen Fry would put it
View attachment 3974
So theist are free to winge and whine as much as they want

YOU GOT IT BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dennis Tate]

Seriously? Surely such trivia is moot considering god would be the default first of everything?

One thing that God would not necessarily be the first at is
going off into Selfishness.... Greed... the opposite of Humility .....
Insecurity.... and feelings of Inferiority........????

One near death experiencer was shown that Covering Cherub Halel who became Lucifer
ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and he seems to have gotten off
into some highly questionable psychological experiments apparently focused on his attempt to
prove that he had a better plan than his Creator.

It is interesting but all of Lucifer's attempts to mess things up.....
may well be producing film footage that has eternal and essentially infinite value.....
due to it being impossible to produce that type of footage under the type of conditions that would have
existed if no type of FALL had occurred?!

I really liked this explanation for EGO:

Christian Andreason, near-death .com :

Ego is that thing that helps us learn what LOVE is by showing us what it is not. All things on Earth must come to a place of balance. All things must have a parallel. This is how we are each caused to grow Spiritually. Just as a face (due to gravity) may wrinkle with time, so does a Soul become weighed down with ego. Ego is always LOVE'S opposite. Love raises vibration and ego lowers it. Ego is a mental essence that each of us is made to endure for as long as we walk the planet. Ego is that thing that tells us in our mind, "No you can't do that ... because you're not talented, thin, good-looking, wealthy, intelligent, young, strong, interesting or intuitive ENOUGH!" This is the voice of the Liar. The Liar is the voice of ego. Let me put it this way: wherever there is separation, condemnation, self-doubt, lack-mentality, bitterness, hostility or segregation ... you can best be sure ego is not far behind.

a. Why does ego do this?
Ego wants to keep you earthbound and Heavenless for as long as it can. It is an essence that has been sent here to learn just as you have. However, it has a duty to challenge each of us and cause us to learn as it learns for itself. There is nothing to fear about the ego. It is just a fragile, spoiled child that screams and rants until it gets what it wants. And like any child, if you ignore it during its temper flare long enough, sooner or later it will get the message that those kinds of methods are not productive and will not yield positive results.

Struggling against Ego... may be what makes all of us humans much stronger....
much like lifting heavier weights produces more muscle mass??? On the plus side....
we humans seem to learn more from some of our seemingly larger errors????

 

[Luchito]

What if our Creator in a sense "evolved" or learned over infinite time in the past?

What if our Creator is composed of fundamental or nearly fundamental energy as is postulated in String Theory?

What if Adam and Eve were in a sense "invented" much like we humans may soon, (or perhaps already have invented), Artificial Intelligence?

What if our Creator planned and choreographed an essentially infinite number of Big Bang type events over infinite time in the past, (although time is not quite the correct word because time cannot exist until the existence of space), but anyway..... this takes us off in a direction that has a lot of potential!

If a creator evolves, such is not an indication that his creation will do the same.

 

[Dennis Tate]

If a creator evolves, such is not an indication that his creation will do the same.

That is a good point....
frankly.... I am of the opinion that an increase in HUMILITY plays an important role in the ushering in of a truly utopian era by the year 2185 or so?

https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/howard-storm.html#a04

Howard Storm's light being friends told him more about the new world to come. According to them, God wished to usher in the kingdom within the next two hundred years. In order to do so, God had rescinded some of the free will given to creatures, in favor of more divine control over human events. This new world order, according to Howard, will resemble some near-death descriptions of heaven. People will live in such peace and harmony and love that communication will be telepathic, travel instantaneous and the need for clothing and shelter eliminated. The lion will indeed lie down with the lamb.

I do believe that the majority of relatively HUMBLE human beings.....
are now willing to INVITE our Creator to intervene in our affairs because the results of NOT having assistance from heaven in our affairs somehow.....
is kind of scary. I have the impression that that invitation...... from fifty one percent of humans..... is an important part of the formula.

 

[sculptor]

There's a good take away:

"I'm offended by that!"

"Well, so fucking what?"

..........................................................................................
"If you think that that was offensive, wait a minute, I'm just getting warmed up."

.................................
Long ago, a Jewish friend of my beloved spouse claimed that I was antisemitic
and I responded
"I'm not antisemitic _ _ _ _ _ , it's just you that I don't like"

 

[Dennis Tate]

There's a good take away:

"I'm offended by that!"

"Well, so fucking what?"

..........................................................................................
"If you think that that was offensive, wait a minute, I'm just getting warmed up."

.................................
Long ago, a Jewish friend of my beloved spouse claimed that I was antisemitic
and I responded
"I'm not antisemitic _ _ _ _ _ , it's just you that I don't like"

For the record.... I am actually really impressed with the way that the Moderators here take my discussions and somehow copy and paste them into a forum.....
where the expectations on my ability to "prove" my assertions has been lowered.
I am more used to being excommunicated, disfellowshipped, ostracized or banned in some form...... so this is kind of awesome in my opinion?!

My all time record for getting myself kicked out of Christian churches is TWO in just over one month back in 1991.....
so frankly.... the somewhat Atheistically inclined moderators on this forum are being much more relatively "merciful" than I have encountered in churches!!!!!

 

[Dennis Tate]

If a creator evolves, such is not an indication that his creation will do the same.

I just got back one of the best, if not the best response that I think I have ever received on this topic of some variation of Theistic Evolutionary Theory.

What do you personally think of this response by The Traveller?

Perhaps I can help you - a little. The concept of eleven dimensional space time comes to theoretical physics through super string theory. However, the reason that 11 dimensions stand out in string theory is because one of the possible explanations of our universe via the Big Bang theory comes from the mathematical convenience that the Big Bang was the result of an 11 dimensional space time continuum collapse into our current 3 dimensional space time. One of the problems with all this is that time cannot be proven to be a mathematical dimension - plus under Einstein's theories that are highly respected - time is not continuous.

Contrary to the thinking of some that dive into the fantasy side of speculation - the science and mathematics of a superior being must come from higher dimensions to have superior knowledge and power over beings of lessor dimensions. This simple element of reality dictates that a superior G-d must of necessity have physical dimensions. In short - a physical dimensional body. That such a bein also has other (spiritual) dimensions is theatrically possible and indeed a necessity for a superior being. The point being that from all we know from science - a superior G-d must have physical dimension to dominate our universe's space time. Plus the single example of G-d existing in our space time is Jesus Christ or as you implied Messiah Yeshua had both a physical body and resurrected physical body undistinguishable by sight from our own - which we are told in scripture is an exact copy of G-d in plurality.

Just for fun - one final idea from someone that used to work on projects for the USA government (military) that required a security clearance. Technically security clearance levels are not so much a matter of the information as it is the need to know. So to say that something is above your security clearance level is an indication of your individual "NEED" to know. But there is a caveat to the need to know that is offset by a level of trust. Jesus spoke in terms of this when he said: "this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." Which implies that we all have a need to know. So if it is above our security clearance it can only be because our understanding and opinions cannot be trusted.



The Traveler

 

[James R]

Here's what I think...

Perhaps I can help you - a little. The concept of eleven dimensional space time comes to theoretical physics through super string theory. However, the reason that 11 dimensions stand out in string theory is because one of the possible explanations of our universe via the Big Bang theory comes from the mathematical convenience that the Big Bang was the result of an 11 dimensional space time continuum collapse into our current 3 dimensional space time.

I don't know what this "collapse" he is talking about is supposed to mean. The basic idea of the 11 dimensions is that four of them are the familiar dimensions of space and time, while the other seven are extra "rolled up" spatial dimensions.

One of the problems with all this is that time cannot be proven to be a mathematical dimension - plus under Einstein's theories that are highly respected - time is not continuous.

I'm having trouble parsing that sentence, too. It is an assumption of string theory that time is one of the dimensions, if I understand it correctly. It is not something that is to be proven. As for Einstein's theories, they are classical theories that treat time as continuous, whereas The Traveler is possibly (?) claiming the opposite about Einstein's theories. If that's the case, then The Traveler is wrong about that.

Contrary to the thinking of some that dive into the fantasy side of speculation - the science and mathematics of a superior being must come from higher dimensions to have superior knowledge and power over beings of lessor dimensions. This simple element of reality dictates that a superior G-d must of necessity have physical dimensions. In short - a physical dimensional body. That such a bein also has other (spiritual) dimensions is theatrically possible and indeed a necessity for a superior being. The point being that from all we know from science - a superior G-d must have physical dimension to dominate our universe's space time.

At this point, The Traveler goes off into fantasy land, such that he's no longer talking about anything scientific.

There is no "science and mathematics of a superior being", so it is a bit of a mystery about how The Traveler could possibly comment on any such thing in any authoritative way. The idea of a "lessor dimension" is similarly mysterious, and unexplained by The Traveler (it's also poorly spelled).

Then he goes off into all the stuff about God, saying that God must have a physical body. If so, where is it? And what's all this about "necessity"? None of that has been demonstrated.

Nothing he says there is remotely scientific.

Plus the single example of G-d existing in our space time is Jesus Christ or as you implied Messiah Yeshua had both a physical body and resurrected physical body undistinguishable by sight from our own - which we are told in scripture is an exact copy of G-d in plurality.

Here, The Traveler brings in his own biased perspective on God. It seems this guy is a Christian, of sorts. Anyway, for whatever reason, The Traveler is keen to draw a spurious connection between the "science" he invented previously and "scripture".

Just for fun - one final idea....

I don't see any relevance in that last paragraph.

 

[Dennis Tate]

Here's what I think...


I don't know what this "collapse" he is talking about is supposed to mean. The basic idea of the 11 dimensions is that four of them are the familiar dimensions of space and time, while the other seven are extra "rolled up" spatial dimensions.


I'm having trouble parsing that sentence, too. It is an assumption of string theory that time is one of the dimensions, if I understand it correctly. It is not something that is to be proven. As for Einstein's theories, they are classical theories that treat time as continuous, whereas The Traveler is possibly (?) claiming the opposite about Einstein's theories. If that's the case, then The Traveler is wrong about that.


At this point, The Traveler goes off into fantasy land, such that he's no longer talking about anything scientific.

There is no "science and mathematics of a superior being", so it is a bit of a mystery about how The Traveler could possibly comment on any such thing in any authoritative way. The idea of a "lessor dimension" is similarly mysterious, and unexplained by The Traveler (it's also poorly spelled).

Then he goes off into all the stuff about God, saying that God must have a physical body. If so, where is it? And what's all this about "necessity"? None of that has been demonstrated.

Nothing he says there is remotely scientific.


Here, The Traveler brings in his own biased perspective on God. It seems this guy is a Christian, of sorts. Anyway, for whatever reason, The Traveler is keen to draw a spurious connection between the "science" he invented previously and "scripture".


I don't see any relevance in that last paragraph.

I should let you know that The Traveller is a Latter day Saint who I met through a discussion forum ran by Latter day Saints.

I quote him in post number three on this page:

https://thirdhour.org/forums/topic/...kiel-37-and-the-white-throne-judgment/?page=3