The universal cycloid motion through time.

[Write4U]

does that have relevance to the proposal at hand, that there is on some simple level a similarity to the movement through time and the zero contact of a rotating system with the medium it travels in/over?

The relevance is the complicated theory that there never was nothing and that there was no beginning of time, but that there is eternal energy in an eternal medium that always was.

That, my friend, is not a simple supposition.......

 

[nebel]

there is eternal energy in an eternal medium that always was

it might not be complicated, but at minimum satisfies the energy laws we have tested, meets Occam's razors sharp edge, and
beats "kicking the can down the road" of the the creating the creation event sequence. The can obviously has a cycloid motion though. so, allow me to skip that IC diversion for now.

 

[Write4U]

That might be a convenient belief system, but I cannot ignore the notion that there must have been a beginning, the absolute simplest state of nothingness from which something (a singularity) emerged.

After a beginning I can imagine a cyclical evolutionary chronology in various patterns of renewal.

I particularly like the simple toroidal pattern that fundamentally satisfies all mathematical requirements, from chaos to conservation of energy.

 

[nebel]

That might be a convenient belief system, but I cannot ignore the notion that there must have been a beginning, the absolute simplest state of nothingness from which something (a singularity) emerged.

well it is convenient in the sense that it recognises our inability, given our past, background, to look beyond our mental fixed concepts, formed by millions of years of environmental pressures. inability to comprehend eternity. but, it is one thing to believe that the universe, life created itself, another, to assume that the energy required created itself too.

I can imagine a cyclical, various patterns

I particularly like the simple toroidal pattern

Yes, although a donut will not give, along its surface the panoramic view that we get from an apparent expanding sphere, the toroid gets us back to the cycloid motions in the universe.

From my more youthful soaring flight days, I remember getting into the center of a thermal, feeling the uplifting power of that central chimney of the rising toroidal air, that rolled up with zero lift at the outside, and seat of the pants force in the center. like a smoke ring or forming mushroom cloud in slow motion.
thank you for bringing the cycloid back to the thread.
Perhaps the universe is like a giant spherical cycloid rising out of the Big Bang point in timespace , energytime.?

 

[Write4U]

but, it is one thing to believe that the universe, life created itself, another, to assume that the energy required created itself too

OTOH, the concept of an eternal energy source is on an equal footing with the emergence of energy from a state of nothingness. I agree that both these concepts are daring to say the least,

Yes, although a donut will not give, along its surface the panoramic view that we get from an apparent expanding sphere, the toroid gets us back to the cycloid motions in the universe

I believe that a toroid actually does offer an expanding surface beginning from a central singularity and once having crossed the equator, the surface contracting back toward the central singularity.

Why The Universe Probably Isn’t Shaped Like A Donut

And what’s the simplest example of a flat, multiply-connected, three-dimensional space? A torus, whose shape most commonly resembles a donut: the kind with a hole in the center.

A visualization of a 3-torus model of space, where our observable Universe could be just a small portion of the overall structure. Note that the surface of the torus itself is what corresponds to space, reduced in dimensionality for visualization purposes. It is not the interior of the torus that's of interest here.

That’s precisely what the latest study is about that’s sparking the recent headlines: the revival of an 18-year-old idea in a slightly different incarnation. Much like the idea that the Universe could have the topology of a dodecahedron, the idea that the Universe has the topology of a donut does come along with implications for what we should observe, but these too are only implications in a statistical sense.

Dependent on the size of the donut/torus, particularly if it’s only a little bit larger than the observable part of our Universe, its predictions are slightly more consistent with our observations than a flat, simply-connected Universe that requires this ~0.1% likelihood to have been spontaneously realized.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...bly-isnt-shaped-like-a-donut/?sh=f3f721c6e60b

Perhaps the universe is like a giant spherical cycloid rising out of the Big Bang point in timespace , energytime.

Yes, "music of the spheres" seems to be the concensus, but I believe that a toroid offers several advantages, one being that the overall volume of the universe remains the same while giving the relative appearance of expansion and contraction riding the Pilot wave from its original creative white hole (BB) back to and trough its source of origin, a central cosmic black hole each time offering an energetic reionization to the whole.

 

[nebel]

our observable Universe could be just a small portion of the overall structure. Note that the surface of the torus itself is what corresponds to space, reduced in dimensionality for visualization purposes. It is not the interior of the torus that's of interest here

This is for some reason more complicated than the universe modeled as a bubble expanding out into time from the central point of the Big Beginning. but note that
the whole shabang is suspended in the immense volume of time out of which energy emerged to create all that matter on the surface in round motions. wheeling whichever way. (as the steel loops of a radial tire)
speaking of round motion, rotation, at some point there has to be a zero contact cycloid effect with the timespace the universe is immersed, held in. or?

 

[Write4U]

This is for some reason more complicated than the universe modeled as a bubble expanding out into time from the central point of the Big Beginning.

IMO, the problem is conservation. what will happen to an ever-expanding bubble, unless there is a subsequent contraction?

But note that the whole shabang is suspended in the immense volume of time out of which energy emerged to create all that matter on the surface in round motions. wheeling whichever way. (as the steel loops of a radial tire)
speaking of round motion, rotation, at some point there has to be a zero contact cycloid effect with the timespace the universe is immersed, held in. or?

This is where we diverge. What is a volume of time?
Energy is not a result of time. Time is a result of expressed energy. IOW as soon as there was an energetic event time began. Mainstream science has that beginning point at the singularity of the BB, where a "white hole" singularity appeared that rapidly spewed chaotic energy into a "permittive nothingness".

It is only when the state of absolute zero temperature cooled the plasma that elements began to form and the universe acquired substance. At that point spacetime began. At least that's how I see it.

If we visualize the universe ultimately as a balance between "positive" and "negative" states, then a central black hole --> function --> white hole singularity seems a viable concept.

 

[river]

nebel said: ↑
does that have relevance to the proposal at hand, that there is on some simple level a similarity to the movement through time and the zero contact of a rotating system with the medium it travels in/over?

The relevance is the complicated theory that there never was nothing and that there was no beginning of time, but that there is eternal energy in an eternal medium that always was.

That, my friend, is not a simple supposition.......

Highlighted

The theory of there never was nothing , makes things less complicated .

Eternal Physical Three Dimensional Objects , The Periodic Table . The medium is the Cosmic Plasma current .

 

[nebel]

IMO, the problem is conservation. what will happen to an ever-expanding bubble, unless there is a subsequent contraction?

A constant expansion becomes rather minor with age. Every second the universe 's "circumference in timespace" expanding outward from the source, the point Big Beginning yields only 6.28 seconds or light seconds at "c" measured around. That was true in the first second and will be at the "last". As seen in time, even at a trillion years old, it will become only 6.28 LSeconds bigger per second at that clip through time. The total energy, from infinity, is also preserved, so, while the universe still picks up energy in its expansion, There is nothing wrong all becoming no-nothing again, just
plain energy in timespace. having an energytime.
now, back to the cycloid.

 

[nebel]

Eternal Physical Three Dimensional Objects , The Periodic Table . The medium is the Cosmic Plasma current .

Our 3D objects are not eternal, but the energy they emerged from at the BB must be. EE , eternal energy with its time capsule. aka energytime, timespace
Waves , in matter and space with their cycloid action are are a temporary phenomenon too.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Eternal Physical Three Dimensional Objects , The Periodic Table . The medium is the Cosmic Plasma current .

Our 3D objects are not eternal, but the energy they emerged from at the BB must be. EE , eternal energy with its time capsule. aka energytime, timespace
Waves , in matter and space with their cycloid action are are a temporary phenomenon too.

Highlighted

Disagree . 3D physcal objects are eternal . Without so , something would not exist . Something ( The Universe ) , with depth , breadth and length , exists . Clearly .

 

[Write4U]

Highlighted

The theory of there never was nothing , makes things less complicated .

Eternal Physical Three Dimensional Objects , The Periodic Table . The medium is the Cosmic Plasma current .

The concept of irreducible complexity is the most complicated of all. There has to be an origin.

The implication of complexity is the prior existence of parts and by extension the prior existence of a singulariry.

 

[Write4U]

Highlighted

Disagree . 3D physcal objects are eternal . Without so , something would not exist . Something ( The Universe ) , with depth , breadth and length , exists . Clearly .

I agree that mathematics has to be a fundamental logical universal function, else order could not emerge from chaos.
But that is only inside the universe, after the "beginning".

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Highlighted

The theory of there never was nothing , makes things less complicated .

Eternal Physical Three Dimensional Objects , The Periodic Table . The medium is the Cosmic Plasma current .

The concept of irreducible complexity is the most complicated of all. There has to be an origin.

The physical . The origin is the three dimensional physical object .

 

[river]

I agree that mathematics has to be a fundamental logical universal function, else order could not emerge from chaos.
But that is only inside the universe, after the "beginning".

Highlighted

What are you agreeing to ? What post # ?

 

[Write4U]

The physical . The origin is the three dimensional physical object .

Yes, origin is the emergence of a 3 dimensional object .

But if you speak of origin you contradict the concept of eternity.

What are you agreeing to ? What post # ?

Your post #71 describes the mathematical function.

 

[river]

↑
The physical . The origin is the three dimensional physical object .

Yes, origin is the emergence of a 3 dimensional object .

But if you speak of origin you contradict the concept of eternity.

Origin , 3 dimensional physical object , is eternal . Its not about emergence but always has been .

 

[nebel]

Disagree . 3D physcal objects are eternal . Without so , something would not exist . Something ( The Universe ) , with depth , breadth and length , exists . Clearly

Have you thought about 3D not possible if you have only 1D , the first dimension --time, ---omnidimensional, occupied only by undefined energy, no 3 dimension needed because that is the domain of matter, material, stuff, which is existing for only 13.8 billion years?
stuff and space with many rotations, revolutions, having cycloid moments,

 

[Write4U]

Origin , 3 dimensional physical object , is eternal . Its not about emergence but always has been .

Why is that necessary?

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Disagree . 3D physcal objects are eternal . Without so , something would not exist . Something ( The Universe ) , with depth , breadth and length , exists . Clearly

Have you thought about 3D not possible if you have only 1D , the first dimension --time, ---omnidimensional, occupied only by undefined energy, no 3 dimension needed because that is the domain of matter, material, stuff, which is existing for only 13.8 billion years?
stuff and space with many rotations, revolutions, having cycloid moments,

To your first statement , No . Because 1D dimension can't expand into 3D . 1D confines .

3D is all around us .

Then the domain is based on the physical which is three dimensional . not time . The fundamentals of existence is based on the physical three dimension Universe .

Highlighted

Stuff IN Space . Space its self does not cycloid . Space has no " Fabric " to it . There are things IN Space that can produce a cycloid . But not space its self .