The UK

[Seattle]

Yes, all fair points. Raw GDP per capita is certainly not a very useful indicator of the prosperity of the citizens, as so much depends on how that is distributed across the population. In the case of the US there is a long Wiki article on the subejct here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States

When it comes to how the gains from improving economic productiveity are shared there is a particularly interesting graph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealt...Family_Income_Growth_in_the_United_States.png

According to this, median US income has not risen in real terms since about the turn of the century, in spite of productivity continuing its upward trajectory. And thus we have guys like Bezos playing at being spacemen, mere luxury yachts now being for the little people, it seems.

Could it be that it doesn't matter what Bezos uses his money for and that increases in productivity aren't from workers but from capital? Just asking for a friend.

 

[parmalee]

I wonder what you find especially compelling? The point seems to be a complaint but little else.

Like I said, most larger cities in the US have become quite cost prohibitive--larger cities where there are much larger pools of artists, more and (sometimes) better venues, more sources (labels, etc.) for funding, etc. If you can't work out how and why this is problematic, I can't really help you.

That said, it seems that most others can work out how and why this is problematic. Perhaps one of them can more patiently and sim[ply explain this for you, I simply lack the patience for what I perceive as a wholly futile endeavor.

 

[parmalee]

This is hardly about rich kids. It's about change. It's a complaint but not about a wrong that needs righting. You can still be young, live at home to produce music. You can work at a bar, have roommates and produce music. It's easier in that regard than it's ever been. You don't need to rent a space in NYC. Anyone with a house or a parent with a house and a basement is all the "room" you need.

You clearly have absolutely no understanding of how the art and music industry works, nor have you much knowledge of current trends in such. I don't know what to tell you. Read some books, maybe? Or even just read some in-depth online pieces? It's not my job to educate you on things that are apparent to most informed peoples.

Working from out in the middle of nowhere is fine for people like me (and the people I know) who are either already somewhat "established" and/or have little interest in making art/music their primary or sole source of income, knowing that their work appeals to much smaller, more "niche" audiences anyway (there are avenues for making considerable money in these areas, as well, though they're generally unappealing to leftists and those with a conscience).

 

[exchemist]

Could it be that it doesn't matter what Bezos uses his money for and that increases in productivity aren't from workers but from capital? Just asking for a friend.

So has the gain in productivity over the last 25 years led to no gain in prosperity? Or, if it has led to a gain in prosperity, prosperity for what class of people, given that the median income has stayed flat over that period?

 

[parmalee]

So has the gain in productivity over the last 25 years led to no gain in prosperity? Or, if it has led to a gain in prosperity, prosperity for what class of people, given that the median income has stayed flat over that period?

There's this:

Since 2000, usual weekly wages have risen 3% (in real terms) among workers in the lowest tenth of the earnings distribution and 4.3% among the lowest quarter. But among people in the top tenth of the distribution, real wages have risen a cumulative 15.7%, to $2,112 a week – nearly five times the usual weekly earnings of the bottom tenth ($426).

For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades

Despite some ups and downs over the past several decades, today's real average wage in the U.S. has about the same purchasing power it did 40 years ago. And most of what wage gains there have been have flowed to the highest-paid tier of workers.

www.pewresearch.org

And this:

The leaders of some of the world’s biggest companies got an 11% pay bump last year, while the average worker globally got a measly 0.5% increase. That means CEO pay grew roughly 20 times faster than that of the average worker, according to a Friday study published by the International Trade Union Confederation and Oxfam.

CEOs got an 11% pay raise in 2025. Workers got 0.5% | Fortune

A new ITUC-Oxfam report covering 1,500 companies found CEO pay is outpacing worker wages by a factor of 20—and the gap is only getting wider.

fortune.com

I'm sure that Seattle can explain why this is entirely reasonable--you know that he once sat at a table adjacent to Jeff Bezos some 30-odd years ago (when Amazon operated out of a single warehouse in South Seattle. I also worked there breifly, incidentally).

 

[exchemist]

There's this:

For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades

Despite some ups and downs over the past several decades, today's real average wage in the U.S. has about the same purchasing power it did 40 years ago. And most of what wage gains there have been have flowed to the highest-paid tier of workers.

www.pewresearch.org

And this:

CEOs got an 11% pay raise in 2025. Workers got 0.5% | Fortune

A new ITUC-Oxfam report covering 1,500 companies found CEO pay is outpacing worker wages by a factor of 20—and the gap is only getting wider.

fortune.com

I'm sure that Seattle can explain why this is entirely reasonable--you know that he once sat at a table adjacent to Jeff Bezos some 30-odd years ago (when Amazon operated out of a single warehouse in South Seattle. I also worked there breifly, incidentally).

These CEOs all sit on one another's remuneration committees, so there is every incentive to pump the salaries, arguing that they have rare "talent" that might up sticks and go elsewhere unless they are paid more each year. And actual pay is supplemented with share options.

Their employees, to a great extent un-unionised nowadays, are told they will be paid the market rate and that's it. And as they invest in de-skilling the jobs by means of automation and IT, that market rate does not go up with time.

Or that's how it appears to me at least.

 

[Seattle]

Like I said, most larger cities in the US have become quite cost prohibitive--larger cities where there are much larger pools of artists, more and (sometimes) better venues, more sources (labels, etc.) for funding, etc. If you can't work out how and why this is problematic, I can't really help you.

That said, it seems that most others can work out how and why this is problematic. Perhaps one of them can more patiently and sim[ply explain this for you, I simply lack the patience for what I perceive as a wholly futile endeavor.

Let's face it, you lack the ability.

 

[Seattle]

You clearly have absolutely no understanding of how the art and music industry works, nor have you much knowledge of current trends in such. I don't know what to tell you. Read some books, maybe? Or even just read some in-depth online pieces? It's not my job to educate you on things that are apparent to most informed peoples.

Working from out in the middle of nowhere is fine for people like me (and the people I know) who are either already somewhat "established" and/or have little interest in making art/music their primary or sole source of income, knowing that their work appeals to much smaller, more "niche" audiences anyway (there are avenues for making considerable money in these areas, as well, though they're generally unappealing to leftists and those with a conscience).

That's not an answer.

 

[Seattle]

So has the gain in productivity over the last 25 years led to no gain in prosperity? Or, if it has led to a gain in prosperity, prosperity for what class of people, given that the median income has stayed flat over that period?

If you do the same thing for 25 years, why would you expect to make more than an adjustment for inflation?

If productivity comes from capital, then the gains would go to those who provided the capital obviously. If I lend you money, you pay me back and not your neighbor.

 

[billvon]

Could it be that it doesn't matter what Bezos uses his money for and that increases in productivity aren't from workers but from capital?

I've been an engineer for 40 years, and I can say quite confidently that every step change in productivity I have seen (PCB CAD, VHDL, C++, better processors, programmable test fixtures, POST, robotic board test) have come from the hard work of a great many workers, and none have come from a pile of cash.

 

[Seattle]

I've been an engineer for 40 years, and I can say quite confidently that every step change in productivity I have seen (PCB CAD, VHDL, C++, better processors, programmable test fixtures, POST, robotic board test) have come from the hard work of a great many workers, and none have come from a pile of cash.

I've had an MBA for 50 years and I can say quite confidently that what the pile of cash buys is where most productivity comes from and not from something a "worker' is doing, in this day and age. The capital has to be paid for, and it isn't provided by the worker.

Europe is not as productive and yet they still have workers. Start with first principles rather than feelings.

 

[parmalee]

That's not an answer.

I answered your question in the preceding post.

This post was simply addressing your overly simplistic and ill-informed musings on how music and related industries actual
work. Remember, you're the one who is focused almost exclusively upon GDP, earning potential, and the the like. With that and mind, your musings come across as rather naive.

 

[Seattle]

I answered your question in the preceding post.

This post was simply addressing your overly simplistic and ill-informed musings on how music and related industries actual
work. Remember, you're the one who is focused almost exclusively upon GDP, earning potential, and the the like. With that and mind, you're musings come across as rather naive.

You didn't address the video and my comments. Music has always been niche, it has nothing to do with rich kids, no one ever heard of Rick Beato in the "golden age", labels were accused of ripping off musicians and now we don't have that and it's easier than ever to produce your own music.

That's what the video was about and you responded to little of that. Maybe you aren't capable of doing so but at least say so.

 

[billvon]

I've had an MBA for 50 years and I can say quite confidently that what the pile of cash buys is where most productivity comes from and not from something a "worker' is doing, in this day and age.

C++ enabled MUCH easier modular design of code, critical for high productivity on very complex coding projects where large groups of coders collaborate. Much of the code in your phone and PC would not be possible without C++. At best, it would have taken far longer, and far more people to get it to work.

So which pile of cash invented C++? I will wait.

 

[parmalee]

You didn't address the video and my comments. Music has always been niche, it has nothing to do with rich kids, no one ever heard of Rick Beato in the "golden age", labels were accused of ripping off musicians and now we don't have that and it's easier than ever to produce your own music.

That's what the video was about and you responded to little of that. Maybe you aren't capable of doing so but at least say so.

Please explain how music generally has always been "niche". What does that even mean?

Also, what exactly are you claiming the video was about? You're not making a whole lot of sense.

 

[parmalee]

"

C++ enabled MUCH easier modular design of code, critical for high productivity on very complex coding projects where large groups of coders collaborate. Much of the code in your phone and PC would not be possible without C++. At best, it would have taken far longer, and far more people to get it to work.

So which pile of cash invented C++? I will wait.

Ahhh, so that's where the term "c note" comes from. I had always thought that it referred to the Roman numeral for 100, but it seems that it's just a pile of notes on which C programming language was formulated upon.

 

[Seattle]

C++ enabled MUCH easier modular design of code, critical for high productivity on very complex coding projects where large groups of coders collaborate. Much of the code in your phone and PC would not be possible without C++. At best, it would have taken far longer, and far more people to get it to work.

So which pile of cash invented C++? I will wait.

You think programmers weren't paid. The numbers are aggregates including baristas, truck drivers, etc. Programmers were paid. I didn't want to keep you waiting for long.

 

[Seattle]

Please explain how music generally has always been "niche". What does that even mean?

Also, what exactly are you claiming the video was about? You're not making a whole lot of sense.

Playing dumb isn't an answer. Beato said that some still do make money in music but it's very limited. It's always been very limited.

 

[parmalee]

Playing dumb isn't an answer. Beato said that some still do make money in music but it's very limited. It's always been very limited.

You got that partly right: In the present day it is largely limited to those from vastly more affluent backgrounds.

 

[Seattle]

You got that partly right: In the present day it is largely limited to those from vastly more affluent backgrounds.

It's those rich kids, the greedy corporations and the Billionaires. Who is naive now?

If you and Rick were just wealthy, we'd all be playing your music, right? Wait, you both lived though the Golden Age and yet no one has heard of either of you. This is just complaining and little else.