The UK

parmalee said:
Phew! I'm glad I got your approval.

Seriously though: Yes, quality of life is in many respects a subjective measure; nevertheless there are plenty of objective criteria through which such can be sussed. Such criteria may not be perfect or flawless, but they can be useful and meaningful nonetheless. Elimination of near universal "stressors", for instance, reflect a higher quality of life or a higher rating on "happiness" indexes. Knowing one won't be bankrupted by medical debt; knowing one can obtain an education without going seriously into debt; knowing one can easily get from place to place without having to bear the burdens of owning and maintaining a vehicle; and so forth. These things can all be measured fairly reliably and they are to some degree determinative of one's quality of life.

Further, a culture and mindset wherein accumulation of wealth and having whole lots of shit--well beyond what one needs to feel safe and secure, that is--is considered far less important insofar as determining one's quality of life is another factor--which was kind of my point with respect to the low per capita income in Nepal. That may be harder to measure, but it's not all that terribly difficult to work out either--again, kinda my point with respect to prevalence of storage units in the US.
Click to expand...
I have to say the "having whole lots of shit" ethos is one that particularly seems a drain on our nation's cultural vitality and spiritual life. Part of the vortex that Ginsberg was writing about. All the shit that won't let go of you. If that's "productivity," give me a little cabin in Nepal anyday.
 
Seattle said:
Most neighborhoods are somewhat of necessity economically similar so you don't have poor people walking though middle-class, upper-middle class or extremely rich neighborhoods.

I live in a nice neighborhood, I don't go into the area that Bill Gates lives, yet I'm not envious or jealous.
Click to expand...
:oops: No wonder the USA has so many racially motivated problems!
I live in an working class suburb in Sydney, next door to one of the finest surfing beaches there is. Myself and my wife often go for a drive, stop off for a coffee at where ever, irrespective of any categorized labels people like to put on that area. We have often had a coffee in probably the most hobnob suburb in Sydney, walked the streets, past homes of some of Sydney's most well-to-do citizens and spoken to many. I have also played footy in an area of Sydney, often referred to as slums.
Not saying that this sort of equality applies to everyone in either the well-to-do suburb, or that of the inferred lower class suburb. But in general, such snobbery does not exist.
For example, I have passed the home of one of Sydney's and Australia's most wealthiest man...a former retired radio announcer, and on many occasions stopped off for a beer at the local just 100 mtrs from his stately home.
 
Seattle said:
It's seems to me that most of this argument is just an attachment to one's own system and somehow feeling it's the best and why doesn't everyone else agree and if they don't agree, they must not "give a fuck about Jack" to use Roosters eloquent vocabulary.

In a word, it's ignorant.
Click to expand...
My eloquence (as you put it) is what it is. Perhaps *shock horror* you are more taken with the eloquence shown by that, you know, that orange bloke whose name you don't want to mention.
Perhaps you are simply a snob?
In a word, it's "Classism" (class discrimination)
 
Roosters for ever said:
My eloquence (as you put it) is what it is. Perhaps *shock horror* you are more taken with the eloquence shown by that, you know, that orange bloke whose name you don't want to mention.
Perhaps you are simply a snob?
In a word, it's "Classism" (class discrimination)
Click to expand...
You are implying that I'm judgmental? Priceless...

At one time I was working at a temp job while looking for a permanent job and I was working at Amazon. I was in line at the company cafeteria with Jeff Bezos behind me several times and once ended up a a table and Bezos sat at the next table almost touching my table.

Hardly a snobby culture, is it? Maybe you (and your son) should actually travel to the US?
 
Last edited:
TheVat said:
I have to say the "having whole lots of shit" ethos is one that particularly seems a drain on our nation's cultural vitality and spiritual life. Part of the vortex that Ginsberg was writing about. All the shit that won't let go of you. If that's "productivity," give me a little cabin in Nepal anyday.
Click to expand...
You don't have to have "a lot of shit" and yet you can still accumulate wealth in he US, but you already know that, right?
 
Chris1000K said:
The UK has more freedom than the US, J walking isn't a thing and the UK has the right to rome, crossing private land where necessary.
The UK isn't as politically divided as the US.
The UK is more diverse than the US, you can get food from over 270 different cultures in London, which is the most diverse city on Earth, a shining symbol of freedom that was once America's promise.
The UK population creates more scientific papers per capita than the US.
The UK creates more books than the US.
The UK has better teeth and oral hygiene.
The UK life expectancy is 2.7 to 4.7 years higher than the US.
The UK has lower better levels of inequality than the US.
The UK has far more stringent, higher & better food quality and safety standards than the US.
The UK has lower knife crime than the US.
The UK has far lower gun crime than the US.
The UK has a fraction of the US murder rate.
The UK has lower overall crime rates than the US.
The UK has almost no medical bankrupsies.
The UK has so much cheaper private medical insurance than the US.
The UK has far better pubic transport.
The UK has more walkable towns & cities.
The UK has better quality motorway services.
The UK has better quality petrol/gas stations.
The UK has no major natural disasters, earthquakes are incredibly tiny, likewise tornados.
The UK has better overall happiness than the US.
The UK has better Education performance than the US.
The UK has better workers rights, maternity & paternity pay and minimum 28 paid days off.
The UK roads are significantly safer than US roads.
The UK banking is more technologically advanced, and consumer-friendly with fewer fees) while US banking is fragmented.
The UK has 4 of the worlds top 10 universities, despite a 5th of US population.
The UK has a higher national minium at more than twice that of the US.
The UK has faster and cheaper Internet than the US.
Click to expand...
Since you seem to like AI here is some AI humor...

The "Right to Roam" vs. Reality
  • The Boast: "We have the right to roam across private land!"
  • The Reality: The "right to roam" mostly just means you have the legal right to get stuck in a bog while a grumpy sheep stares at you. You're free to cross that field, provided you don't mind climbing over sixteen rusted barbed-wire fences only to realize the "shortcut" leads to a pub that closed in 1994.

Motorway Services & Banking
  • The Boast: "Better quality motorway services and advanced banking!"
  • The Reality: Calling a Wimpy or Burger King inside a building that smells like "coffee and damp dampness" a "luxury service" is a stretch. And while banking is tech-forward, British people mostly use those "advanced" apps to check exactly how many pence they're in the red after paying £7 for a "meal deal" sandwich.

Diversity & Food
  • The Boast: "Food from 270 cultures in London!"
  • The Reality: London has 270 cultures, yet the national dish remains a Greggs sausage roll eaten in the rain while waiting for a bus that’s "cancelled due to the wrong kind of leaves on the track".

Walkable Cities & Safety
  • The Boast: "More walkable cities and safer roads!"
  • The Reality: Our cities are "walkable" because the roads were designed for horses and are now too narrow for a modern car to fit into a tiny parking space. "Jaywalking isn't a thing" because we just assume the white-van driver is going to hit us anyway, so why make it a crime?

General Vibe
  • The Boast: "Better education and happiness!"
  • The Reality: British people are "happier" because their expectations are floor-level. An American expects to be President; a Brit considers it a "cracking good day" if the supermarket self-checkout doesn't yell about an "unexplained item in the bagging area".
 
L
Seattle said:
Since you seem to like AI here is some AI humor...

The "Right to Roam" vs. Reality
  • The Boast: "We have the right to roam across private land!"
  • The Reality: The "right to roam" mostly just means you have the legal right to get stuck in a bog while a grumpy sheep stares at you. You're free to cross that field, provided you don't mind climbing over sixteen rusted barbed-wire fences only to realize the "shortcut" leads to a pub that closed in 1994.

Motorway Services & Banking
  • The Boast: "Better quality motorway services and advanced banking!"
  • The Reality: Calling a Wimpy or Burger King inside a building that smells like "coffee and damp dampness" a "luxury service" is a stretch. And while banking is tech-forward, British people mostly use those "advanced" apps to check exactly how many pence they're in the red after paying £7 for a "meal deal" sandwich.

Diversity & Food
  • The Boast: "Food from 270 cultures in London!"
  • The Reality: London has 270 cultures, yet the national dish remains a Greggs sausage roll eaten in the rain while waiting for a bus that’s "cancelled due to the wrong kind of leaves on the track".

Walkable Cities & Safety
  • The Boast: "More walkable cities and safer roads!"
  • The Reality: Our cities are "walkable" because the roads were designed for horses and are now too narrow for a modern car to fit into a tiny parking space. "Jaywalking isn't a thing" because we just assume the white-van driver is going to hit us anyway, so why make it a crime?

General Vibe
  • The Boast: "Better education and happiness!"
  • The Reality: British people are "happier" because their expectations are floor-level. An American expects to be President; a Brit considers it a "cracking good day" if the supermarket self-checkout doesn't yell about an "unexplained item in the bagging area".
Click to expand...
Love it!!! Thank you made me laugh. You, sir, clearly understand the British sense of humour.

And in that spirit, to reference your last point, I’d like to pay tribute to your President for truly demonstrating that, indeed, any American really can become President!
 
Last edited:
Chris1000K said:
L

Love it!!! Thank you made me laugh. You, sir, clearly understand the British sense of humour.

And in that spirit, to reference your last point, I’d like to pay tribute to your President for truly demonstrating that, indeed, any American really can become President!
Click to expand...
Haha...that truly is the message and we have the history to prove it!
 
Seattle said:
You are implying that I'm judgmental? Priceless...

At one time I was working at a temp job while looking for a permanent job and I was working at Amazon. I was in line at the company cafeteria with Jeff Bezos behind me several times and once ended up a a table and Bezos sat at the next table almost touching my table.

Hardly a snobby culture, is it? Maybe you (and your son) should actually travel to the US?
Click to expand...
That was over 30 years ago. Amazon and Bezos have changed quite considerably over the decades.
 
RECENT UK NEWS TOPICS

Thursday means ‘Starmageddon’, says Flynn
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/thursday-means-starmageddon-says-flynn

The Prime Minister could face “Starmageddon” in tomorrow’s local elections, according to SNP Westminster leader Stephen Flynn. Polling suggests that Sir Keir Starmer’s Labour will fall from power in Wales for the first time since devolution in 1999, be beaten into third place by Reform at Holyrood and lose more than 2,000 council seats across England.

Party colleagues including former deputy prime minister Angela Rayner, Health Secretary Wes Streeting and Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham are all thought to be preparing a bid depose the scandal-struck Prime Minister after the full extent of the drubbing is known.

Nigel Farage's Reform UK look set to crush Labour at local elections, says bookies
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/nigel-farages-reform-uk-look-37115129

Bookies are backing Reform UK to emphatically ‘win’ May 7’s local elections, with Nigel Farage’s party 11/10 favourites to secure the most seats. According to Odd’s Checker, 55% of bets placed through their website this week fancied Reform to win the most seats – way ahead of Keir Starmer’s Labour Party with 15%.

Only 1% of the betting company’s punters backed Your Party, Liberal Democrats and Workers’ Party of Britain to win the most seats. The Conservatives fared little better with 8%, while Zack Polanski’s Green Party was supported by 13%. Reform’s slightly more right wing little brother Restore Britain – although only backed by 6% to win the most seats – were depicted favourably by Odds Checker, with odds of 9/1 this week an improvement from their previous of 11/1 the week before.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

One year on: The hidden impact of Trump’s trade deal with the UK
https://www.politico.eu/article/one...ct-of-us-donald-trump-trade-deal-with-the-uk/

The consequences of the trade pact are still rippling through Britain’s arable heartlands. By granting the U.S. a 1.4 billion-liter duty-free quota for bioethanol — roughly the size of the U.K.’s domestic bioethanol sector — the government had effectively traded away an entire industry in return for concessions elsewhere in the economy, Mills said.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Meet the drag queen pro wrestler looking to take the fight to Starmer in elections
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/meet-drag-queen-pro-wrestler-37111526

A drag queen-turned-pro wrestler is leading the left-wing fight against Sir Keir Starmer by standing for election for the Greens. Steven Braines, 44, will spend Thursday trying to win votes in the Labour stronghold of Newham, East London. And that night, the former psychologist will be grappling with rivals in the wrestling ring under his comedic alter ego, Sandra Spitz.

But he insists his candidacy is no joke and said the Greens are confident of getting at least one candidate elected in the three seats up for grabs in the Green Street East ward. He told The Daily Star: "The party numbers have soared under Zack Polanski and people now see that the Greens have a chance of winning, especially after the Gorton and Denton byelection."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Major airlines cancel 13,000 flights in May - including more than 100 from Heathrow
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/flight-cuts-threaten-summer-holidays-37115516

The industry says it is not experiencing any current shortages, given the usual six weeks’ visibility of supply, but international agencies have predicted that Europe faces shortages of jet fuel if the war in the Middle East continues to disrupt supplies. The UK government has said that unusual measures could be taken in advance to avoid late disruption for holidaymakers over the summer season. This includes consolidating schedules on routes where there were multiple flights to the same place on the same day.

Ministers said that if carriers have not sold a significant proportion of tickets, flights may also be cancelled to prevent wasting fuel from running near-empty planes. The transport secretary, Heidi Alexander, has said there were no “immediate supply issues”, but the government was “preparing now to give families long-term certainty and avoid unnecessary disruption at the departure gate this summer”.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Britain’s growing car theft crisis revealed
https://www.channel4.com/news/britains-growing-car-theft-crisis-revealed

It’s a crime with tens of thousands of victims each year, but very few consequences for the criminals behind it. Exclusive data obtained by Channel 4 News reveals how sophisticated vehicle thieves are targeting anything on wheels, from cars to vans and even ambulances. But the proportion of crimes being solved by police forces across England and Wales is far lower than even just a few years ago.

 
TheVat said:
I have to say the "having whole lots of shit" ethos is one that particularly seems a drain on our nation's cultural vitality and spiritual life. Part of the vortex that Ginsberg was writing about. All the shit that won't let go of you. If that's "productivity," give me a little cabin in Nepal anyday.
Click to expand...
Yep. I've long been an adherent of the Can motto: Restriction/limitation is the mother of invention.

I'm not usually in the habit of argument via YouTube video, but this is only a few minutes long and Beato pretty much nails it--and this applies across a host of creative endeavors:

Back in the 90s and early 'aughts, I could easily live in places like SF, NYC, Chicago, Toronto, et al, having only to work part-time (which is all I've ever only been able to work really, owing to neurological health issues). Nowadays that would be nearly impossible.
 
parmalee said:
Yep. I've long been an adherent of the Can motto: Restriction/limitation is the mother of invention.

I'm not usually in the habit of argument via YouTube video, but this is only a few minutes long and Beato pretty much nails it--and this applies across a host of creative endeavors:

Back in the 90s and early 'aughts, I could easily live in places like SF, NYC, Chicago, Toronto, et al, having only to work part-time (which is all I've ever only been able to work really, owing to neurological health issues). Nowadays that would be nearly impossible.
Click to expand...
I'm not a musician other than someone who plays guitar at home. I did listen to Rick's entire video.

I wonder what you find especially compelling? The point seems to be a complaint but little else.

Back in the day, people complained about record labels ripping everyone off. If only musicians could produce their own music. Now they can and pretty cheaply. You could do it while unemployed since your time is unlimited.

He says the hit groups now are very limited. They always were. Music was never a lucrative business for most. Now the money is in touring, that's expensive of course.

The industry has changed. That's reality. No one owes it to the world to produce music. It's always been a market thing. Rick, and most people of similar age (including me) don't like modern "music". Again, that's reality.

No one ever heard of Rick Beato, the musician, back in the "golden years" and we know of him now only through YouTube. Everyone has access to YouTube.

This is hardly about rich kids. It's about change. It's a complaint but not about a wrong that needs righting. You can still be young, live at home to produce music. You can work at a bar, have roommates and produce music. It's easier in that regard than it's ever been. You don't need to rent a space in NYC. Anyone with a house or a parent with a house and a basement is all the "room" you need.

I'm just interested in what the compelling part of his message is for you? It just sounds like complaining to complain to me. The rich kid part is just ridiculous. That's not an argument.
 
Last edited:
TheVat said:
Asked and answered, hundreds of times in various threads at SFN. That's basic knowledge one needs to bring to a good-faith chat. Which this one feels less and less to be.
Click to expand...
You aren't making an argument. You are just making a value judgment.
 
Chris1000K said:
It was meant to demonstrate, that having a larger economy, doesn't mean that quality of life is necessarily better for your citizens. And yes you can generate lists between different countries, but this list highlights, how, in most the key areas of life, the US approach to corporate profits first, doesn't and isn't particularly benefitting their citizens. From health, work, food, travel, safety, education the US having a large economy isn't translating into a better quality of life for it's people compared to the UK, with it's smaller per capita GDP figure.

I would also point out as well though, that when you look at China, and you see, an incredible new road network, gleaming new cities, advanced technology everywhere, and some of if not the best high-speed rail network in the world, do you honestly think that this country is producing fewer goods and services than the US every year, especially, considering whilst it's doing amazing things in it's own country, it's also going around the world building infrastructure, like the British in the 19th century, but on a an even grander scale.

Yet, people in the US look at their GDP figure, and assume because it's the largest, their nation is somehow the most productive. The reality, is that GDP figures measure the assigned price to goods and services, to create an overall figure, they don't measure like for like how much is actually being produced. So, when Americans are comparing their economy to other countries and wondering why so many people in the US are living in poverty, and they have crumbling infrastructure, they might well wonder if the fact that other countries are assigning much lower prices to their annual production of goods and services, is giving people in the US a somewhat distorted picture of just how productive their economy really is, relative to other countries.

Americans are sold the lie of American exceptionalism, so that they don't start asking why other countries have paid holidays, no medical debt and a precautionary approach to food safety. America is a country of amazing, creative, caring, honest, kind, hard working and thoroughly decent people, that are being given a raw deal and who deserve better, but for too many unfortunately, they have just never seen how things in other countries could also make their lives so much better, if given the chance.
Click to expand...
Yes, all fair points. Raw GDP per capita is certainly not a very useful indicator of the prosperity of the citizens, as so much depends on how that is distributed across the population. In the case of the US there is a long Wiki article on the subejct here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States

When it comes to how the gains from improving economic productiveity are shared there is a particularly interesting graph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealt...Family_Income_Growth_in_the_United_States.png

According to this, median US income has not risen in real terms since about the turn of the century, in spite of productivity continuing its upward trajectory. And thus we have guys like Bezos playing at being spacemen, mere luxury yachts now being for the little people, it seems.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top