The UK

Seattle said:
The UK used to be productive, for periods. Welfare state and productive isn't the best mix though.
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Up until the early/mid 2000s the UK productivity grew pretty much in line with other industrialised nations.
So being a welfare state clearly isn't/wasn't the issue.
Since the early 2000s, though, the UK productivity has stagnated somewhat.
We've certainly shot ourselves in the foot during that time: the period of austerity under Cameron, then Brexit, all of which reduced investment, weakened recovery from the 2008 financial crisis, and slowed productivity growth.
Part of this was due to the strictures of austerity, but part was also due to lack of stability, which companies don't like if they're going to invest.
Then, of course, we had the ****-womble Truss and her 45-day disaster that tanked our economy for a bit.
We also focused during that time of keeping people working.
It was as if we would rather have 2 people employed doing 1 person's job than have 1 of them unemployed (exaggerated for effect).
This gave a big hit to our average productivity, but at least kept people earning.
Although wages stagnated as well.
And firms kept under-investing.

The stagnation of our productivity is not because we are a welfare state.
Other nations that are welfare states have not had the same issues that the UK has had in this regard.
 
Baldeee said:
The stagnation of our productivity is not because we are a welfare state.
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I would only add that Seattle has set the terms of this chat as premised on the assumption that productivity is the best metric of a nation's quality of life. I don't accept that. It comes with much implicit bias, especially towards rampant consumerism as something we're supposed to accept as an unqualified good.
 
RECENT UK NEWS TOPICS

Hundreds more prisoners released early but jails still full
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czd24z7563no

Scotland - which along with other parts of Britain has one of the highest incarceration rates in Europe - has approved several emergency measures in recent years in a bid to cut prisoner numbers.

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The extraordinary election meltdown that could see Starmer ousted
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More than 20 million people are eligible to vote in Thursday’s local elections in England - and their verdict could shape the nation’s political landscape for many years to come. [...] Labour will lose around 1,850 of the 2,500 council seats it is defending across the country, while the Conservatives will shed about 600 of the 1,300 they possess.

Nigel Farage’s Reform UK is expected to gain 1,550 seats, while the resurgent Green Party of England and Wales, led by Zack Polanski, is predicted to pick up around 500. The Liberal Democrats - whose leader, Sir Ed Davey, insisted last month that the party would “keep on winning” - are expected to gain around 150 seats.

[...] In normal times, Starmer “would probably face a challenge in the wake of the huge losses of councils and councillors it’s set to face”, Bale said. But the Middle East crisis may offer a stay of execution, with the Prime Minister emphasising the need for stability at a time of such geopolitical uncertainty.

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https://conservativehome.com/2026/05/04/george-pickering-a-british-first-amendment-would-not-work/

[...] a recently drafted bill which would enshrine free speech in UK law, similar to the First Amendment in the United States. ... Last year it was revealed that police in England and Wales were making more than 30 arrests per day for social media posts and other messages which were deemed to have caused “annoyance,” “inconvenience” or “anxiety”.

[...] But would a Freedom of Speech Bill actually be able to prevent such overreach? ... Violations of the First Amendment in the US would have been no mystery to La Boétie: officials were able to effectively break the law because they knew the public...

[...] Unfortunately, the British public simply does not value free speech. A YouGov poll found last year that only 28 per cent of people believe that one should be able to speak one’s mind on social media, while 61 per cent felt it was more important that online abuse and threats should be prevented.

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Reform pledges to open migrant detention centres in Green-voting areas
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Reform UK has said it would open migrant detention centres for people awaiting deportation in areas that vote for the Green Party. [...] Zia Yusuf, Reform UK's home affairs spokesperson, said Green-controlled areas would be prioritised because of what he described as the party's support for "open borders". A Green Party spokesperson said it was a "disgusting idea" and accused Reform of "making abhorrent announcements in attempts to distract voters" from its other policies.

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Reform UK has unveiled a plan to lock them up tens of thousands of migrants in detention centres—in areas the Green Party wins. The “Vote Green, Get Illegals” campaign, launched on Monday, is a piece of political theatre to appeal to right wing and racist voters.

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This follows research commissioned by Irwin Mitchell which revealed a quarter of mothers lack confidence in the safety and quality of maternity services. The survey of 1,145 adults across England and Wales, conducted by YouGov, discovered that 53 per cent of mothers encountered maternity care complications requiring additional support. [...] Some 27 per cent of those surveyed believed maternity services were deteriorating, compared to 22 per cent who felt they were getting better.
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TheVat said:
Pink Floyd. Better bash them, too, Seattle. They're, y'know, more of that Limey stagnation and underperformance.
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To think that the band could instead have been called Anderson Council. (If you don't know what I'm referring to, look it up ;))
 
TheVat said:
I would only add that Seattle has set the terms of this chat as premised on the assumption that productivity is the best metric of a nation's quality of life. I don't accept that. It comes with much implicit bias, especially towards rampant consumerism as something we're supposed to accept as an unqualified good.
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Productivity is the best metric of a nation's economy. Your "quality" of life might not be the same as mine, meaning it's subjective.

For Parmalee it might be having a dog, a bicycle and being left alone. That's legit. For other's it might be a government job, a pension and less risk taking. That's fine too. That's not mine but it's different for everyone.
 
Every country has its problems. Australia's at this time has a housing shortage, and general cost of living caused by Trump and his war.
The fact of the matter is of course this thread was started in frustration, anger and envy, because members have dared criticise an egotistical pussy grabbing convicted felon, who choses to govern on the premise of "might is right" has acted like a traitor in seemingly and insidiously supporting Russia's invasion of the Ukraine, and then constantly lies through his teeth about what he has achieved. To the world in general, he and his cheer leaders, are obnoxious, vile creatures without any empathy to or for anyone else. To Russia, North Korea and China, he is obviously a joke, a clown, and a dangerous adversary that no one, including the west can ever trust.
It is not about the UK or any other nation and their individual problems.
It is time in effect, that nations need to stand up to this bullying, clown, as PM Carney has done, and unite as one against his obsessive and selfish demands.
The USA at this time has gone from being a trusted friend and ally, to a pariah, politically despised by the world. That is what this thread is about.
 
Seattle said:
Productivity is the best metric of a nation's economy. Your "quality" of life might not be the same as mine, meaning it's subjective.
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Productivity is certainly the best metric if you want to understand productivity. As to whether it is the "best metric of a nation's economy", well, that's (ironically) subjective. The "best" depends on what you prioritise. And, really, there is no "best". One would really needs to look at a suite of metrics.
But, sure, it may be that countries, or people, that prioritise productivity would favour productivity as "the best metric", but others might look at GDP, and others even HDI. Or something else.
 
Sarkus said:
Productivity is certainly the best metric if you want to understand productivity. As to whether it is the "best metric of a nation's economy", well, that's (ironically) subjective. The "best" depends on what you prioritise. And, really, there is no "best". One would really needs to look at a suite of metrics.
But, sure, it may be that countries, or people, that prioritise productivity would favour productivity as "the best metric", but others might look at GDP, and others even HDI. Or something else.
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The point is I wasn't referring to quality of life since that was the claim.
 
Seattle said:
The point is I wasn't referring to quality of life since that was the claim.
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Any country that has a President who is a convicted felon, has pardoned hundreds of criminals and murderers, has no universal health care scheme to speak of, prefers the old west, law of the gun mentality, and has gone through a civil war, hasn't much of quality of life.
 
Seattle said:
The point is I wasn't referring to quality of life since that was the claim.
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And the point I was making was that productivity isn't necessarily the "best metric", since that was the claim you made.
 
Seattle said:
Productivity is the best metric of a nation's economy. Your "quality" of life might not be the same as mine, meaning it's subjective.

For Parmalee it might be having a dog, a bicycle and being left alone. That's legit. For other's it might be a government job, a pension and less risk taking. That's fine too. That's not mine but it's different for everyone.
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And yet metrics like the Happiness Index show that social science has managed to come up with consistent broad indicators of QOL. Such surveys do not support countries with high levels of economic inequality (no matter how high their productivity) showing high QOL. When those at the lower end suffer poorer healthcare, frequent budget crises, diminished educational options, violent crime victimization and generally unstable (or crisis) situations regarding housing, this pulls down clearly delineated metrics of QOL, no matter how productive Silicon Valley or the Bakken Shale is at this moment.
 
Roosters for ever said:
Any country that has a President who is a convicted felon, has pardoned hundreds of criminals and murderers, has no universal health care scheme to speak of, prefers the old west, law of the gun mentality, and has gone through a civil war, hasn't much of quality of life.
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If you say so. Keep on preaching!
 
TheVat said:
And yet metrics like the Happiness Index show that social science has managed to come up with consistent broad indicators of QOL. Such surveys do not support countries with high levels of economic inequality (no matter how high their productivity) showing high QOL. When those at the lower end suffer poorer healthcare, frequent budget crises, diminished educational options, violent crime victimization and generally unstable (or crisis) situations regarding housing, this pulls down clearly delineated metrics of QOL, no matter how productive Silicon Valley or the Bakken Shale is at this moment.
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Economic inequality causes that how?
 
Roosters for ever said:
Not preaching old chum, simply stating truth. It's your preaching that is evident, making excuses at each and every turn re the tyrant Trump and his criminal misdemeanors as history will forever record.
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When you run out of something to say, just throw out the word "Trump". I get it.

What were you talking about before Trump?
 
Seattle said:
When you run out of something to say, just throw out the word "Trump". I get it.

What were you talking about before Trump?
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Wrong, just pointing out why Trump is a threat to the world, and pointing out how disillusioned the Trump hillbilly supporters like yourself are and the commonality you all have with your "fuck you Jack, I'm alright" Trump inspired mentality.
I mean that is the reason you started this thread wasn't it? Simply out of anger, frustration and the reality of the members daring to criticise your evil minded mentally unstable convicted felon you have for a President.
You as an obvious supporter of Trump and his methodology and mentality of "might is right" is again disgusting, wrong, and obnoxious.
Just as the German citizens in WW2 were.
 
Roosters for ever said:
Wrong, just pointing out why Trump is a threat to the world, and pointing out how disillusioned the Trump hillbilly supporters like yourself are and the commonality you all have with your "fuck you Jack, I'm alright" Trump inspired mentality.
I mean that is the reason you started this thread wasn't it? Simply out of anger, frustration and the reality of the members daring to criticise your evil minded mentally unstable convicted felon you have for a President.
You as an obvious supporter of Trump and his methodology and mentality of "might is right" is again disgusting, wrong, and obnoxious.
Just as the German citizens in WW2 were.
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No, it had nothing to do with Trump. Try again...
 
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