The UK

[Seattle]

I’ve read the "Trump" thread here. We all know his traits, they haven't changed in a decade. But what’s interesting is the constant "UK vs. US" commentary, usually from posters who seem to think the UK is still a global benchmark for quality of life.

Since we love talking about failing leaders, scandalous elites, and healthcare crises, why not look at the UK through that same lens?

People here love the "Epstein" talking point when it comes to US politicians. That’s cool. But why is the thread so quiet about Prince Andrew’s arrest earlier this year? It’s hard to lecture the US on corruption when a member of your own Royal Family was taken into custody for "misuse of public office" regarding those same Epstein files.

The NHS is your favorite program, but look at the actual performance data. You have over 7 million people on waiting lists, that’s 1 in 10 of your population. You aren't "living longer"; you are "lingering longer."

You’ve fallen behind almost the entire EU in this metric. You’re living longer than Americans only because we have higher rates of accidental deaths (cars, drugs, guns) among young men. If you’re a healthy 30-year-old, the US system offers better survival rates for cancer and heart disease than the NHS.

The US economy remains the engine of the world. Meanwhile, the UK is experiencing stagflation. UK GDP growth for 2026 is effectively a flat-line (around 1%).

It’s easy to mock "American Greed," but that greed fuels the innovation and defense (NATO) that allows the UK to maintain its status. Without the US economy, the UK is just a cold, expensive island with low productivity and 1940s-era infrastructure that hasn't been upgraded.

If you think US politics is a circus, look at Keir Starmer. Between the Mandelson/Epstein envoy scandal and his own party calling for his resignation over civil service interference, the UK government is currently a mess. There’s a high probability he won't even finish his term.

The US certainly has its faults at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, but the ceiling in the US is infinite. In the UK, the floor is rising, the ceiling is dropping, and the middle class is being squeezed into 40% housing costs and a 12-month wait for a basic scan.

Maybe it’s time to stop focusing on the "orange man" and start asking why your own national performance doesn't match your national pride.

 

[exchemist]

I’ve read the "Trump" thread here. We all know his traits, they haven't changed in a decade. But what’s interesting is the constant "UK vs. US" commentary, usually from posters who seem to think the UK is still a global benchmark for quality of life.

Since we love talking about failing leaders, scandalous elites, and healthcare crises, why not look at the UK through that same lens?

People here love the "Epstein" talking point when it comes to US politicians. That’s cool. But why is the thread so quiet about Prince Andrew’s arrest earlier this year? It’s hard to lecture the US on corruption when a member of your own Royal Family was taken into custody for "misuse of public office" regarding those same Epstein files.

The NHS is your favorite program, but look at the actual performance data. You have over 7 million people on waiting lists, that’s 1 in 10 of your population. You aren't "living longer"; you are "lingering longer."

You’ve fallen behind almost the entire EU in this metric. You’re living longer than Americans only because we have higher rates of accidental deaths (cars, drugs, guns) among young men. If you’re a healthy 30-year-old, the US system offers better survival rates for cancer and heart disease than the NHS.

The US economy remains the engine of the world. Meanwhile, the UK is experiencing stagflation. UK GDP growth for 2026 is effectively a flat-line (around 1%).

It’s easy to mock "American Greed," but that greed fuels the innovation and defense (NATO) that allows the UK to maintain its status. Without the US economy, the UK is just a cold, expensive island with low productivity and 1940s-era infrastructure that hasn't been upgraded.

If you think US politics is a circus, look at Keir Starmer. Between the Mandelson/Epstein envoy scandal and his own party calling for his resignation over civil service interference, the UK government is currently a mess. There’s a high probability he won't even finish his term.

The US certainly has its faults at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, but the ceiling in the US is infinite. In the UK, the floor is rising, the ceiling is dropping, and the middle class is being squeezed into 40% housing costs and a 12-month wait for a basic scan.

Maybe it’s time to stop focusing on the "orange man" and start asking why your own national performance doesn't match your national pride.

A good example of an invitation to indulge in false balance.

The USA is unique among advanced democracies in have elected to political leadership, twice, a man who is brazenly bent on destroying the impartiality of the institutions of the state and bending them to serve his own personal ends. By doing so he is turning the US democracy into autocracy. King Charles pointed this out to Congress just the other day.

That's why we have a thread on Trump and not one on Starmer.

 

[Roosters for ever]

The US certainly has its faults at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder,

And as has been shown in the "Trump" thread, the likes of yourself apparently don't give a damn fuck about those unfortunate enough to be at the bottom of that ladder.

but the ceiling in the US is infinite.

As it is in the UK, Australia, Canada, NZ and most other countries. The difference being that in those countries getting to the ceiling generally does not entail crawling over those on the bottom of the ladder.

Maybe it’s time to stop focusing on the "orange man" and start asking why your own national performance doesn't match your national pride.

And perhaps the citizens of Germany during WW2 should have focused more on Hitler and what he was doing and his goals.
The Orange dictator will certainly be remembered in history in a similar vane.

 

[Seattle]

And as has been shown in the "Trump" thread, the likes of yourself apparently don't give a damn fuck about those unfortunate enough to be at the bottom of that ladder.

As it is in the UK, Australia, Canada, NZ and most other countries. The difference being that in those countries getting to the ceiling generally does not entail crawling over those on the bottom of the ladder.

And perhaps the citizens of Germany during WW2 should have focused more on Hitler and what he was doing and his goals.
The Orange dictator will certainly be remembered in history in a similar vane.

We care about those at the bottom, just not to the exclusion of everyone else. The drug addicts need help but not to the exclusion of everyone else. Homeless drug addicts on the street affects everyone else as well.

 

[Seattle]

We carry 'No Kings' signs at protests, yet you pay rent to a King every time you turn on a light bulb powered by an offshore wind farm. You mock US 'ambition,' but your own productivity is 20% lower because half your country acts like they’re waiting for a government pension at age 40.

 

[Roosters for ever]

We care about those at the bottom, just not to the exclusion of everyone else. The drug addicts need help but not to the exclusion of everyone else. Homeless drug addicts on the street affects everyone else as well.

But that's not the case. In fact it is a brazen lie. I don't read too much about millionares/billionares becoming paupers simply because of the need to care for those on the bottom rung. But then again, like near everything you claim in defence of your orange dictator, it is nothing more then misguided inferences and the usual excuses.
Our grossly superior universal health scheme for example is based on ability to contribute. Is this the reason for your mistaken gripe? Are you complaining about millionares/billionares needing to contribute more to facilitate the care of those less fortunate and unable to contribute?
I wonder how you would feel if some unfortunate incident deprived you of your earning capacity, and you needed to sell your home for care?
Finally (as you seem greatly offended by criticism of the USA) no one, particularly me, denies that the USA was the leader of the free world, and was a technologically, scientific power house. What people are seeing is that this convicted orange dictator/felon is doing great harm in the world and gives a fuck about no one. He operates under the banner of might is right, and treads underfoot anyone who opposes him. He is taken obviously with other dictators like Putin, and publicly puts down the leader of an incredibly brave country of Ukraine, because he choses to defend that country against the invasion of another Trump like bully in Putin.
You as a supporter of Trump and his methodology and mentality of "might is right" is again disgusting, wrong, and obnoxious.

 

[Seattle]

But that's not the case. In fact it is a brazen lie. I don't read too much about millionares/billionares becoming paupers simply because of the need to care for those on the bottom rung. But then again, like near everything you claim in defence of your orange dictator, it is nothing more then misguided inferences and the usual excuses.
Our grossly superior universal health scheme for example is based on ability to contribute. Is this the reason for your mistaken gripe? Are you complaining about millionares/billionares needing to contribute more to facilitate the care of those less fortunate and unable to contribute?
I wonder how you would feel if some unfortunate incident deprived you of your earning capacity, and you needed to sell your home for care?
Finally (as you seem greatly offended by criticism of the USA) no one, particularly me, denies that the USA was the leader of the free world, and was a technologically, scientific power house. What people are seeing is that this convicted orange dictator/felon is doing great harm in the world and gives a fuck about no one. He operates under the banner of might is right, and treads underfoot anyone who opposes him. He is taken obviously with other dictators like Putin, and publicly puts down the leader of an incredibly brave country of Ukraine, because he choses to defend that country against the invasion of another Trump like bully in Putin.
You as a supporter of Trump and his methodology and mentality of "might is right" is again disgusting, wrong, and obnoxious.

I'm not a Trump support, a "brazen" liar, nor am I "obnoxious". You don't seem to be able to think very clearly however. I'm for Universal catastrophic health care. I'm not for allowing drug addicts and the homeless to sleep on sidewalks and in the parks (as is common in Seattle).

Regarding what Trump is doing, I haven't commented on most of it and I am not impressed in general. That doesn't seem to sink into your 81 year old brain (which is older than Trump) but I try to allow for that.

 

[parmalee]

A good example of an invitation to indulge in false balance.

The USA is unique among advanced democracies in have elected to political leadership, twice, a man who is brazenly bent on destroying the impartiality of the institutions of the state and bending them to serve his own personal ends. By doing so he is turning the US democracy into autocracy. King Charles pointed this out to Congress just the other day.

That's why we have a thread on Trump and not one on Starmer.

To this I would add that, as a fer instance, Nepal ranks very high on several of those global happiness indexes despite it's populace having a very low per capita income of around 5 thousand US dollars. Explaining how this could possibly be the case to someone who, to all indications, values GDP above all else and, again, to all indications, considers financial education to be of vastly greater import than, well, education generally is an utterly futile task.

Kinda like how while the actions and policies of the Trump administration are utter and complete crap, the very fact of him--and many in his regime--being a serial rapist and pedophile is every bit as important as the actions and policies insofar as assessing the "merits" of this administration goes.

I learned recently (via David Cross's most recent stand-up special) that something like 70-odd percent of all personal storage units in the world are in the US, who comprise roughly 5 percent of the world's population--despite Americans generally having much larger homes for which to store all of their worthless and wasteful shit. A lot of people, and Americans most especially, simply cannot see beyond dollars and material things.

 

[C C]

[...] If you think US politics is a circus, look at Keir Starmer. ... the UK government is currently a mess. [...]

Meh. Must be a fairly boring news weekend if the DM has to drum up ridiculous fears of the WPB taking over. And Starmer posturing about policing language at protests is a superficial gesture to the tiny pocket of 300,000 Jews whose votes are accordingly trivial in contrast to almost 4 million Muslims.

---

Workers Party of Britain gave out sweets to celebrate Iran's 'success' against 'the Zionists'
https://www.dailymail.com/news/arti...kers-Party-Britain-sweets-celebrate-Iran.html

EXCRPTS: Radical Muslim election candidates in Birmingham handed out sweets to celebrate Iran's 'success' against 'the Zionists' [...] In a video posted online, Wajad Burkey and Sardar Khan, both members of George Galloway's Workers Party of Britain, posed with a box of sweets and praised Iran after it blocked the Strait of Hormuz and secured a ceasefire in the war with Israel and the US. The shocking footage comes amid growing fears that [...] England's second city is on the brink of falling under the control of a coalition of sectarian Muslim politicians... (MORE - details)

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The Thai-based billionaire bankrolling Reform UK
https://novaramedia.com/2026/05/01/the-thai-based-billionaire-bankrolling-reform-uk/

EXCERPTS: The man bankrolling Reform UK’s rise in British politics is a reclusive Thai-based crypto billionaire with a love of aviation. Christopher Harborne, 63, gave £9m to Nigel Farage’s party in August last year – the largest single political donation ever made in the UK by a living person – and has provided two-thirds of all funds Reform has received.

[...] While Farage insists that Harborne wants “absolutely nothing in return at all” from his investment, the Reform leader has become a cheerleader for crypto, this month promoting a ‘Bitcoin treasury’ called Stack BTC – chaired by former chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng... (MORE - details)

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UK PM says some pro-Palestinian marches could be banned
https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...-some-pro-palestinian-marches-could-be-banned

EXCERPTS: Labour leader Starmer is under pressure to act after a spate of antisemitic incidents [...] Starmer ... was booed by some locals, who accused him of not doing enough to protect them. They also denounced pro-Palestinian activists holding marches in British cities...

[...] "I'm a big defender of freedom of expression, peaceful protests," he told the BBC. "But when there are chants like 'globalise the intifada', that's completely off limits. "Clearly, there should be tougher action in relation to that."

Starmer said he wanted to police the language used on marches more strongly and that there were "instances" when some protests should be stopped altogether. [...] The Jewish community in Britain views the chant as "very, very dangerous", said Starmer... (MORE - details)
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[parmalee]

UK PM says some pro-Palestinian marches could be banned
https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...-some-pro-palestinian-marches-could-be-banned
...
Starmer said he wanted to police the language used on marches more strongly and that there were "instances" when some protests should be stopped altogether. [...] The Jewish community in Britain views the chant as "very, very dangerous", said Starmer... (MORE - details)
_

Sheesh. While not nearly as odious as American Christian Zionists saying what is and what isn't antisemitic, Starmer positing what Britain's "Jewish community" views as "dangerous" is pretty damn ridiculous.

 

[Sarkus]

Sheesh. While not nearly as odious as American Christian Zionists saying what is and what isn't antisemitic, Starmer positing what Britain's "Jewish community" views as "dangerous" is pretty damn ridiculous.

I'm sure he would have only said and done these after talking to the top representatives of the Jewish community. So I think he's just repeating what they have told him, rather than making it up as he goes along.

 

[Sarkus]

I’ve read the "Trump" thread here. We all know his traits, they haven't changed in a decade. But what’s interesting is the constant "UK vs. US" commentary, usually from posters who seem to think the UK is still a global benchmark for quality of life.

That's not what is happening at all. Yes, people are bashing Trump, and taking the opportunity to poke at the US in more general terms, but noone, at least noone here from the UK, is holding the UK as the pinnacle. As a reference, yes, because that's what we know. Just as Australians will compare to their system etc. But not as a "global benchmark" as you claim. There may be some things we think we do better, such as look after our poor, and healthcare, but not everything.

Since we love talking about failing leaders, scandalous elites, and healthcare crises, why not look at the UK through that same lens?

Sure.

People here love the "Epstein" talking point when it comes to US politicians. That’s cool. But why is the thread so quiet about Prince Andrew’s arrest earlier this year? It’s hard to lecture the US on corruption when a member of your own Royal Family was taken into custody for "misuse of public office" regarding those same Epstein files.

What's there to discuss? He was found guilty of inappropriate behaviour in the court of public opinion. He was stripped of his titles, and more. He has been held accountable as far as the Royal family can muster. What else do you want to discuss about him? And it's easy lecture the US on corruption. One can acknowledge that it exists in the UK, and show that it is nowhere to the same extent as in the US, for example. That there exists, say, one bad apple in your own basket does not mean you can't point out the numerous rotten apples in another. In fact, the way we have dealt with our person in the Epstein files could give us even greater cause to point at the US inaction.

The NHS is your favorite program, but look at the actual performance data. You have over 7 million people on waiting lists, that’s 1 in 10 of your population. You aren't "living longer"; you are "lingering longer."

Yes, our waiting lists are longer for non-elective surgery. It is a trade-off we currently have for giving the same care to everyone. What we don't do is stop people being put on the waiting list simply because they can't afford it. Could the UK do better? Of course. We could increase our funding significantly. It might be an unpopular move, but we could do it.

You’ve fallen behind almost the entire EU in this metric. You’re living longer than Americans only because we have higher rates of accidental deaths (cars, drugs, guns) among young men. If you’re a healthy 30-year-old, the US system offers better survival rates for cancer and heart disease than the NHS.

It's not the "accidental deaths" that keep your life expectancy lower, although they do contribute. The main reason is unhealthy lifestyles, e.g. obesity. It is also why the UK is falling behind Europe: because we tend to copy the US in such matters. We are a more obese country than most of Europe, and it is rising, unfortunately.

The US economy remains the engine of the world. Meanwhile, the UK is experiencing stagflation. UK GDP growth for 2026 is effectively a flat-line (around 1%).

No, we are not experiencing stagflation. We are at risk of it for sure. But our economy is still growing. Just not very much. It is a struggle for our successive governments to improve matters. But in terms of quality of life, it's personally not noticeable.

It’s easy to mock "American Greed," but that greed fuels the innovation and defense (NATO) that allows the UK to maintain its status. Without the US economy, the UK is just a cold, expensive island with low productivity and 1940s-era infrastructure that hasn't been upgraded.

While much of our infrastructure is old, and many of our utility companies have been guilty of corporate greed since turning private, our infrastructure still works. Yes, we have low productivity which has been a constant struggle, but how does US greed allow the UK to maintain its status, exactly?

If you think US politics is a circus, look at Keir Starmer. Between the Mandelson/Epstein envoy scandal and his own party calling for his resignation over civil service interference, the UK government is currently a mess. There’s a high probability he won't even finish his term.

That's because we hold our administration to account, and expect higher standards from them. All politics is a circus, though. But while UK politics is jugglers and high-wire act, struggling to perform, the current US administration is the clown show.

The US certainly has its faults at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, but the ceiling in the US is infinite. In the UK, the floor is rising, the ceiling is dropping, and the middle class is being squeezed into 40% housing costs and a 12-month wait for a basic scan.

It's the trade-off we make to be in a welfare state. We treat everyone with dignity. We still give people opportunity to get ahead, but, yes, things are more limited at the top, but that's the trade-off we make.
Housing is becoming a serious issue, as we haven't built anywhere near the level of stock required for the growing population. This has priced the younger generation out of the market until they are much older. It's a problem that the governments are trying to solve, but it's difficult unless they build far more houses than they are doing.

12-month wait for a basic scan is gross exaggeration. The target is no longer than 6-week wait for basic scans, and the vast majority are within that. If it's urgent it will be much faster. If not so urgent then could be longer.
Remember, though, that people can still take private insurance if they can afford it and want better access. It's not a case of having to stick to the NHS. The NHS is the backstop, that applies equally to everyone.

Maybe it’s time to stop focusing on the "orange man" and start asking why your own national performance doesn't match your national pride.

Nah, I'll focus on the orange man, thanks. What you seem to miss is that most people here in the UK probably talk about UK politics to death outside this forum, discussing it at work, at home with family and friends, we read about it in detail in the papers, etc. So I come here to not talk about UK politics, unless it is germane to the topic at hand. I get why you may do the same with US politics, in which case don't post in the Trump thread. You know: you do you and let others do what they want to do.

So this thread is great. For those that want to poke at the UK. Will be interesting to see what (ill-imformed?) perspectives there are of life in this wonderful little country. Do I think it a great country? Yes. Many are great. Does it have an extraordinarily rich and detailed history? Yes. Many do. Do I think it is without its problems? No. Could things be better? Absolutely.

 

[Sarkus]

We carry 'No Kings' signs at protests, yet you pay rent to a King every time you turn on a light bulb powered by an offshore wind farm.

What a bizarre comment.
If the UK was a Constitutional Republic, that did away with the monarchy, then I'd be protesting whenever someone tried to set themself up as a monarch. Just as I would protest if King Charles tried to take direct control of the UK and do away with Parliament.
So I just find your comparison... odd. You might as well have said that we complain when people here try to buy things with a US dollar... but in the USA you're quite happy with it!

You mock US 'ambition,' but your own productivity is 20% lower because half your country acts like they’re waiting for a government pension at age 40.

Can you cite anyone mocking US 'ambition'?
Can you also cite anyone claiming the UK to be the bee's knees when it comes to healthcare, quality of life, productivity, etc?

You really do seem to think that because we knock the US we must think our own country is the ideal, rather than just a comparison. Ah, well.

 

[Pinball1970]

. Just as I would protest if King Charles tried to take direct control of the UK and do away with Parliament

Yeah we had a previous Charles that lost his head for that sort of behaviour.

 

[Pinball1970]

the UK is still a global benchmark for quality of life.

Three Brits on here I think including me and I do not recall any comments of that nature.

 

[exchemist]

Three Brits on here I think including me and I do not recall any comments of that nature.

No indeed. For quality of life I personally would look to continental Europe rather than Britain.

There is no doubt, though, that negative sentiments towards the USA are far more widespread now in the rest of the world than they used to be. This is a direct result of Trump, who has made a point of insulting and antagonising just about everybody, from Canada, to Europe, to South Africa and on to China. Except Israel of course .

You can see this for example in the downturn in US tourism and the falling prices of hotel accommodation for the World Cup. I certainly would not contemplate visiting the USA. I might get arrested by ICE and sent to El Salvador as a result of rude comments about Trump in my email records. And these same people have the immortal cheek to lecture us Europeans about "free speech"!

 

[parmalee]

I'm sure he would have only said and done these after talking to the top representatives of the Jewish community. So I think he's just repeating what they have told him, rather than making it up as he goes along.

Yeah, Starmer does have at least a proper regard for procedure and normal ways of going about things. And I suppose his remarks are likely somewhat accurate if by "Jewish community" he's referring primarily to religious Jews--it's just that, to paraphrase Brace Belden of TrueAnon, I never really met a Jew who wasn't an atheist/agnostic til I was like 30 or something.

 

[Roosters for ever]

I'm not a Trump support, a "brazen" liar, nor am I "obnoxious". You don't seem to be able to think very clearly however. I'm for Universal catastrophic health care. I'm not for allowing drug addicts and the homeless to sleep on sidewalks and in the parks (as is common in Seattle).

Regarding what Trump is doing, I haven't commented on most of it and I am not impressed in general. That doesn't seem to sink into your 81 year old brain (which is older than Trump) but I try to allow for that.

Yes, as I have mentioned many times, just as the citizens of Germany failed to speak up against their tyrant Hitler!
And clown with regards to my age, yes I am a happy, healthy 81 going on 82 year old. You have yet to get there, and with your virtually non existent health scheme, and your governments anti vaccination program, I doubt you willl.

 

[exchemist]

Yeah, Starmer does have at least a proper regard for procedure and normal ways of going about things. And I suppose his remarks are likely somewhat accurate if by "Jewish community" he's referring primarily to religious Jews--it's just that, to paraphrase Brace Belden of TrueAnon, I never really met a Jew who wasn't an atheist/agnostic til I was like 30 or something.

There are quite a lot of Orthodox and Ashkenazi Jews in the Stamford Hill and Golders Green areas of North London, i.e peopel who are recognisably Jewish when you see them in the street because of the way they dress. The community is far broader than that of course, but those are the people that some nutter might decide to knife.

 

[Pinball1970]

Yes, as I have mentioned many times, just as the citizens of Germany failed to speak up against their tyrant Hitler!
And clown with regards to my age, yes I am a happy, healthy 81 going on 82 year old. You have yet to get there, and with your virtually non existent health scheme, and your governments anti vaccination program, I doubt you willl.

What Seattle should realise is that this presidency really is like nothing before.
He has disrespected friend and foe alike, publicly on social media like a spoilt teenager.
As a "sort of" labour supporter from the UK, Regan was a worry for me as were Bush Snr and Jr, especially Jr BUT they had a dignity a sense of duty that is not on Trumps radar at all, he does not care.

Regarding the UK and many other issues he has flip flopped so many times, again publicly, regarding our relationship I have lost count, this is just in 12 months.

You cannot trust a damn thing that comes out of his mouth.

He is unpredictable and dangerous.