The truth is a lie.

[Olga]

The dictatorship of the weak versus the dictatorship of the strong.

 

[Olga]

Несколько месяцев назад я пришла на этот сайт, где большинство составляют приверженцы демократов, и смогла с интересом понаблюдать, что же представляют из себя так называемые западные демократы. Для себя я поняла некоторые вещи. То, что они называют "демократия", на самом деле является ничем иным, как "диктатурой слабых". Каждое общество способствует формированию определённого типа людей, и их отношениям между собой. И есть диктатуры открытые, где диктаторы не скрывают своих методов насилия, с помощью которых они управляют обществом, и так же есть диктатуры скрытые, где управляют с помощью хитрости и лжи, где процветает лицемерие, подлость, и интриганство. Что делает сильный и самолюбивый? Он идёт, и берёт своё силой. Что делает слабый и самолюбивый? Он добивается своего хитростью и ложью. Что хуже: открытое насилие, или ложь? Как говорят у нас в России - "хрен редьки не слаще". Да, наверное вас не убьют физически при тех режимах, которые называют себя демократическими, но вас изуродуют психологически. Вот посмотрите на примере этого сайта: человек, ратующий за демократические ценности, получив небольшую власть, начинает убирать неугодных, затыкать рот несогласным, и придумывает для этого множество надуманных причин. Почему он это делает? Потому что он самолюбив , как и все диктаторы. И вся его кажущаяся демократичность слетает как шелуха, когда задевается его самолюбие. Он не демократичен по своей сути, он мимикрирует. А что же делает общество? Неужели никто ничего не замечает? Замечают, конечно. Но одни молчат, потому что не хотят портить отношений, другие молчат, потому что им всё равно, третьи выступают против, и становятся неугодными, которых при первой же возможности изгоняют. Всё как и везде: одни равнодушные, другие трусы, третьи разрозненны. Чем такая "демократия" лучше открытого авторитаризма? Да ничем: в одном открытое насилие, в другом оно скрытое. Одно правит с помощью грубой силы, другое - с помощью лицемерия и лжи. Вот и вся разница. И вы никогда не измените мир вокруг человека, не изменив самого человека. Но это уже другая история...

 

[Wizard of Whatever]

Weak: Help me
Strong" When I can

 

[TheVat]

Olga, private websites are not democracies, and do not represent the political system. And who has banned you? Aren't you still here, posting your grievances?

An online forum is more like a visit to someone's house to join a discussion salon. You have to agree to the homeowner's rules before joining and you don't get a vote on it. Your free choice is either accept those rules of discourse or don't join and find another one you like.

Do you visit someone's house and they ask you to remove your shoes, and you start complaining that you want to walk around in muddy boots and that forced bare feet is some sort of dictatorship? Do you demand that your hosts conduct a vote on wearing boots? Do you, when refused, state that their house proves the West isn't really democratic?

 

[Olga]

Olga, private websites are not democracies, and do not represent the political system. And who has banned you? Aren't you still here, posting your grievances?

An online forum is more like a visit to someone's house to join a discussion salon. You have to agree to the homeowner's rules before joining and you don't get a vote on it. Your free choice is either accept those rules of discourse or don't join and find another one you like.

Do you visit someone's house and they ask you to remove your shoes, and you start complaining that you want to walk around in muddy boots and that forced bare feet is some sort of dictatorship? Do you demand that your hosts conduct a vote on wearing boots? Do you, when refused, state that their house proves the West isn't really democratic?

Теват, я не нарушала правила сайта. И кроме того, хозяин позиционирует себя как приверженец демократических принципов, что автоматически подразумевает свободу слова.

 

[TheVat]

Tevat, I didn't violate the site's rules. Besides, the owner positions himself as a supporter of democratic principles, which automatically implies freedom of speech.

But freedom of speech doesn't mean there are no rules, especially on a science forum where you sign up and agree to rules of evidence, providing citations, etc. You are free to say "the moon is composed of Swiss cheese" but only if you provide evidence of lunar samples which support that. So, democracy at a private website is limited and does not mean total freedom to make stuff up. There are taverns for that, both real ones and websites that operate more like taverns. You dispute that you broke site rules but that is a different issue, an issue you have with James and other members.

But the issue you raise here is if a website is like a democratic society and political system. And I already explained why most private websites are not.

In a tavern I can say "James is a smelly pig fucker" and it may not get any reaction. But this site, you agree to not make personal insults and to provide evidence for claims you make. If you actually believe that James has an offensive body odor and engages in sexual intercourse with farm animals, as a scientific anomaly, then you would need to provide evidence for that and explain its scientific relevance. And my apologies to James R for using his personal life as an example.

 

[Pinball1970]

Теват, я не нарушала правила сайта. И кроме того, хозяин позиционирует себя как приверженец демократических принципов, что автоматически подразумевает свободу слова.

I think James asked you to post on topic that's it Olga, why would he target you?
He probably wants activity at the site from interesting people like the rest of us.
It is not difficult to stick to the topic, we ALL digress a little but make efforts to stick to it.
If James says enough is enough he is speaking for the site, that's his job.
There is another mod, I bumped into him and said hello (he ignored me)

 

[Pinball1970]

Теват, я не нарушала правила сайта. И кроме того, хозяин позиционирует себя как приверженец демократических принципов, что автоматически подразумевает свободу слова.

You have to admit Olga that we know our shit. If you have a science question then more often than not it will get answered.

We all have our areas of expertise, I would absolutely love to say my area is mathematics and physics but it isn't, it is just something I am enthusiastic about.

The site is worth it. Physics forums is very very strict, Stack exchange just answers questions, science forums. Net will allow speculation but is also heavy on moderation and evidence based arguments.

 

[billvon]

Tevat, I didn't violate the site's rules. Besides, the owner positions himself as a supporter of democratic principles, which automatically implies freedom of speech.

No. In a democratic society people generally have freedom of speech. That means you can say whatever you want, with very few limits. You can put up a website and put whatever you want on that website, again with very few limits.

However - and this is the important part - someone else doesn't get to come on YOUR website and demand you let them say whatever they want. It's yours. And you have the freedom to decide what you want to have posted on your website, because you own it. So if someone posts on your website "Olga is a big fat dumb liar" you can delete it if you like.

And so can OTHER people who own websites.

Fortunately you have a quick and easy remedy if you don't like what is posted on someone else's website - don't read it and don't post on it.

 

[Olga]

Olga, private websites are not democracies, and do not represent the political system. And who has banned you? Aren't you still here, posting your grievances?

An online forum is more like a visit to someone's house to join a discussion salon. You have to agree to the homeowner's rules before joining and you don't get a vote on it. Your free choice is either accept those rules of discourse or don't join and find another one you like.

Do you visit someone's house and they ask you to remove your shoes, and you start complaining that you want to walk around in muddy boots and that forced bare feet is some sort of dictatorship? Do you demand that your hosts conduct a vote on wearing boots? Do you, when refused, state that their house proves the West isn't really democratic?

Это временно, всё идёт к этому, повод для блокировки всегда можно найти. Джеймс сказал, что мои посты раздражают каких то старых пользователей, и они сказали ему что уйдут, если я не заткнусь. Поэтому он вынесет мне предупреждения, после которых будет блокировка. Почему бы этим пользователям открыто не высказать мне свои претензии, если в них есть хоть капля порядочности?

Насчёт подкрепления доказательствами: человек(а чаще это группа людей), которые выдвинули гипотезу, подтвердили её экспериментально, и она стала теорией, никогда не пойдут с этой теорией ни на какой сайт. Они пойдут в рецензируемый журнал, и в Нобелевский комитет. На научных сайтах могут выдвигать только идеи те, у кого нет по каким либо причинам самим провести эксперименты, но и держать свои идеи в себе, чтобы о них не узнали конкуренты, они тоже не хотят. Потому что настоящая наука - это не конкуренция, а сотрудничество. Только не все это понимают, особенно те, кто самолюбивы и эгоистичны.

 

[Olga]

I think James asked you to post on topic that's it Olga, why would he target you?
He probably wants activity at the site from interesting people like the rest of us.
It is not difficult to stick to the topic, we ALL digress a little but make efforts to stick to it.
If James says enough is enough he is speaking for the site, that's his job.
There is another mod, I bumped into him and said hello (he ignored me)

Я думаю, он и есть хозяин и модератор сайта в одном лице.

 

[Olga]

You have to admit Olga that we know our shit. If you have a science question then more often than not it will get answered.

We all have our areas of expertise, I would absolutely love to say my area is mathematics and physics but it isn't, it is just something I am enthusiastic about.

The site is worth it. Physics forums is very very strict, Stack exchange just answers questions, science forums. Net will allow speculation but is also heavy on moderation and evidence based arguments.

Здесь не строго научный сайт. Тут есть много различных подразделов.

 

[Olga]

No. In a democratic society people generally have freedom of speech. That means you can say whatever you want, with very few limits. You can put up a website and put whatever you want on that website, again with very few limits.

However - and this is the important part - someone else doesn't get to come on YOUR website and demand you let them say whatever they want. It's yours. And you have the freedom to decide what you want to have posted on your website, because you own it. So if someone posts on your website "Olga is a big fat dumb liar" you can delete it if you like.

And so can OTHER people who own websites.

Fortunately you have a quick and easy remedy if you don't like what is posted on someone else's website - don't read it and don't post on it.

Билл, я показала на примере этого сайта(а могла показать и на примере какого-нибудь другого сообщества) как появляются диктаторы. Вы наверное удивитесь, но многие из ныне действующих авторитарных лидеров, когда то позиционировали себя, как приверженцы демократических и либеральных ценностей. Возможно, они даже сами считали себя таковыми. Но власть проявляет человека, как лакмусовая бумажка. И я вам точно могу сказать: самолюбивый человек - это потенциальный диктатор. Он всегда будет действовать, руководствуясь своими личными амбициями, а не интересами общества. И не важно, руководит он страной, или модерирует на сайте. Суть у них одна и та же. Только есть диктаторы, которые не скрывают, что они могут быть диктаторами, и честно об этом говорят(как Трамп, например), и на мой взгляд, это сильные люди, а есть те, кто постоянно врёт и только притворяется, что он демократичный. Есть признак, по которому таких людей можно вычислить: они постоянно подозревают и обвиняют других в нечестности. Потому что судят по себе. У нас в России даже есть такое выражение: Кто громче всех кричит - "держи вора"!? Тот, кто сам вор.

 

[Pinball1970]

Здесь не строго научный сайт. Тут есть много различных подразделов.

Yes but if you do ask, you have qualified people to answer.

 

[Olga]

Yes but if you do ask, you have qualified people to answer.

Пин, есть образовательные сайты, а есть научно-дискуссионные. Это какой?

 

[billvon]

And it doesn't matter whether they're running a country or moderating a website. The essence is the same.

Likewise, there are members of society who work hard to remain victims. Even in a perfect democracy they will complain about the evil cabal running things who "keeping them down" and preventing from reaching their potential / being recognized for their genius / succeeding at their various endeavors.

 

[billvon]

Pin, there are educational websites, and there are scientific discussion websites. Which one is this?

This is both. Mostly discussion, because the less informed people who post here tend to be pretty immune to education.

 

[James R]

A few months ago, I came to this site, where the majority are supporters of the democrats, and I was able to observe with interest what the so-called Western democrats are.

A democracy is a form of government, usually implemented in a way that allows the people to elect representatives to make decisions, policies, laws, etc. on their behalf. The people - including the elected representatives - are then expected to follow the laws.

The basic idea is that the ultimate source of political power is will of the people, rather than some kind divine right to rule, for example, or the capacity to intimidate the population into submission.

For myself, I understood some things. What they call "democracy" is in fact nothing more than a "dictatorship of the weak."

If you believe that political power should go to those who are best able to beat others into submission, then you have an anti-democratic belief, by definition.

Each society contributes to the formation of a certain type of people, and their relations with each other.

Yes.

And there are open dictatorships, where dictators do not hide their methods of violence, with the help of which they control society, and there are also hidden dictatorships, where they rule with the help of cunning and lies, where hypocrisy,
meanness, and intrigue flourish.

Dictatorships are anti-democratic, by definition.

What does a strong and self-loving person do? He goes, and takes his own by force.

If he doesn't believe that democracy is valuable.

What does the weak and selfish do? He achieves his goal by cunning and lies.

For a Christian, you sure have a bleak view of people, Olga. It sounds like you believe that most people are selfish and only interested in advancing their own interests.

What happened to "love thy neighbour"?

Which is worse: open violence, or lies?

Open violence. People get killed when there's open violence.

Yes, you probably won't be killed physically under those regimes that call themselves democratic, but you will be disfigured psychologically.

No. In a democracy, you can just vote out the people who are telling the lies and get yourself better leaders. You can even run for office yourself.

Look at the example of this site: a person who advocates democratic values, having received a little power, begins to remove undesirables, silence dissenters, and comes up with many far-fetched reasons for this.

Our posting guidelines are published and available for all to read, Olga. You agreed to follow them when you signed up. You haven't read them, have you?

Anyway, I get it that this is the real reason you started this thread: to try to attack me.

So, please document some instances (at least ONE) where I came up was a "far-fetched reason" to remove an "undesirable". A "far-fetched reason" would presumably be one that isn't covered by our site positing guidelines.

Why does he do this? Because he is conceited, like all dictators.

sciforums isn't a democracy, Olga. Do you think that it is?

This a privately-owned website.

And all his seeming democracy flies off like a husk when his pride is hurt.

Examples?

It is not democratic in its essence, it mimics.

Did I claim it is democratic? (It could be argued that some aspects of the way this site works are democratic.)

Of course, they notice. But some are silent because they do not want to spoil relations, others are silent because they do not care, still others are against and become undesirable, who are expelled at the first opportunity.

You're still here, Olga. The first opportunity to expel you was just after you signed up and insisted in posting in Russian. You weren't expelled at that time and you still haven't been expelled.

You aren't a captive here. You know you can leave any time you like. Right?

Why is such "democracy" better than open authoritarianism?

A democracy is better because citizens have the option of replacing the elected representatives with people who they feel better represent their interests.

Tevat, I did not violate the rules of the site.

You did. At least 4 times, because that's how many official warnings you have received. There have probably been other times, too, but I'm very generous and forgiving.

And in addition, the owner positions himself as an adherent of democratic principles, which automatically implies freedom of speech.

You haven't talked to the owners.

This is temporary, everything is moving towards this, a reason for blocking can always be found.

A reason, technically, isn't needed. Nevertheless, the social contract here is that as long as you follow our posting guidelines, we undertake not to arbitrarily block you.

James said that my posts annoyed some old users, and they told him that they would leave if I didn't shut up.

Specifically, there have been complaints that you constantly post off-topic.

You're also quite dishonest when it suits your purposes, as I have personally learned. But that's another matter.

Why don't these users openly express their complaints to me, if they have at least a drop of decency in them?

It is not only me who has asked you, on several occasions, to post on topic.

I think he is the owner and moderator of the site in one person.

I am not an owner of sciforums.

 

[James R]

Here's an extract from our posting guidelines:

Threads and posts
E1. New threads should be posted to the appropriate forum. Thread titles should be meaningful to other users, both now and in the future. Avoid non-specific titles such as ‘Need help’ or ‘Computer problem’ or ‘Theory of relativity’ or ‘Atheism’. If you’re asking a question, provide enough information so that members can help you.

E2. Do not cross-post (i.e. post the same topic to several different subforums). Duplicate threads will be deleted or merged.

E3. Posts to a thread should relate to the topic of the thread. While we accept that discussions often evolve over time, it is usually preferable to discuss tangential matters in a separate thread (a link can be included in the original thread).

E4. Refrain from posting several consecutive posts in a row as this disturbs the readable flow of a thread. If nobody has replied to your first post, edit it instead of posting another post.

Off-topic posts
E5. Posts that tend to disrupt on-topic discussion may be deleted or moved to a separate thread.

and

Off-topic
I13. Repeated off-topic posting designed to interrupt the flow of a thread or to divert attention away from the topic is unacceptable. This includes jokes and inane comments.

Is this unclear to you, Olga?

 

[Olga]

Likewise, there are members of society who work hard to remain victims. Even in a perfect democracy they will complain about the evil cabal running things who "keeping them down" and preventing from reaching their potential / being recognized for their genius / succeeding at their various endeavors.

Это вы сейчас о демократах написали? Вы же постоянно жалуетесь на Трампа, который всем жить не даёт? Тогда у меня к вам вопрос:
Раз американцы, живя в стране с развитой демократией, выбрали Трампа, которого вы считаете авторитарным лидером, значит они:
Вариант 1 - терпилы, которым нравится диктатура.
Вариант 2 - дураки, которых легко обмануть.
Какой вариант вам ближе?