the assumption is that any civilization that avoids self-immolation must therefore be tremenously wise, peaceful and beatific.
A big assumption methinks
The reason we don't meet aliens
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the assumption is that any civilization that avoids self-immolation must therefore be tremenously wise, peaceful and beatific.
A big assumption methinks
exogenesis is speculation not fact
perhaps you neglect the enormity of the time scales involved?
furthermore is it possible to note, at the very least, small scale and perhaps logical trends with regards to the evolution of our species?
would you perhaps then make the case why reptiles/whatnot should have developed a sentience comparable to ours? is there a biological framework that could support that particular line of evolution?
From where I sit Americans are aliens as are all the hardworking immigrants who do odd jobs for Sandy.
perspectives are different for many...true Gods would be Gods for all. Americans would not be aliens to Japanese, who are far more developed than Americans. Sandy would not be God to hardworking immigrants if these immigrants reached a higher than Sandy's status.
A true God is that of a God unsurpassed by others.
The Lord speaks to Sandy. You can't get more developed than that !
your sarcasm is appreciated but inadequate for it mocks Sandy as a character.
Sarcasm ? Ask her and she'll confirm what I say !
And I thought you were joking ! May the god of gods smile kindly on you and your mission to bring knowledge to us heathens.
My mission is different than be an advocate of God, for I do not know God as well as you might.
Agreed - while my post neither addressed the issue of exogenesis, nor multiple instances of abiogenesis directly. I was clear on the fact that the existence of extraterrestrial life - intelligent or otherwise - with a technological culture or not - arising from whatever mechanism you choose to pick - is speculation.
The enormous timescales are mentioned
Indeed - that's why I did
I certainly would not make that case, in fact that's why the position I stated in my last post was the contrary one.
I see no justification for beleiving that the evolution of intelligence is a given.
Indeed given the considerable amount of time that reptiles were the dominant species - and given that during their peak, environmental conditions were considerably more stable (i.e no regular periods of glaciation) than they have been in the pleistocene, it would seem therefore that the evolution of intelligence and the emergence of a technological culture is a highly unlikely event.
So there's no reason to suspect that we are surrounded by intelligent alien cultures - let alone visted by space brothers.
Which is what I said in my last post - did you not read it or did you just fail to comprehend it?
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My mission is different than be an advocate of God, for I do not know God as well as you might.
Your humility becomes you. May you be counted among the blessed
That it almost happened 2-3 times already in the history of the only known intelligent life, humans??
Have you tried the Gospel Club in Sandyville. You'll meet weirdos. Is that the same as aliens ?
ahh
pardon
the referenced asteroid strike was an instance of extinction (dinosaurs) rather than the seeding of a planet (exogenesis)
is that the case?
the post in question
if so, our civ is due to this extinction? on what grounds do you make that assertion??
this is the crux of the matter. there seems to be an expectation of a tech civ in other species that persevered for a suitable period of time in favorable conditions. here is how i see it
The thumb, unlike other fingers, is opposable, in that it is the only digit on the human hand which is able to oppose or turn back against the other four fingers, and thus enables the hand to refine its grip to hold objects which it would be unable to do otherwise. The opposable thumb has helped the human species develop more accurate fine motor skills. It is also thought to have directly led to the development of tools, not just in humans or their evolutionary ancestors, but other primates as well. The opposable thumb ensured that writing was possible.The thumb, in conjunction with the other fingers make humans and other species with similar hands some of the most dexterous in the world. (wiki)
that is what allows for intelligence. it is unreasonable to expect a high tech civs should have sprouted simply because a billion other forms of life existed prior to habilis. what would you have a lowly amoeba do? sprout a hand and build a bike?
again evolution appears to be progressive...
it is possible though that a more likely scenario may be that the specialized, precision gripping hand (equipped with opposable thumb) of Homo habilis preceded walking, with the specialized adaptation of the spine, pelvis and lower extremities proceeding a more advanced hand. And, it is logical that a conservative, highly functional adaptation be followed by a series of more complex ones that complement it. With Homo habilis an advanced grasping-capable hand was accompanied by facultative bipedalism, possibly implying, assuming a co-opted evolutionary relationship exists, that the latter resulted from the former as obligate bipedalism was yet to follow. Walking may have been a byproduct of busy hands and not vice versa.(wiki)
we are a logical culmination of our particular species tho definitely not one of necessity
sorry
statistical equations say otherwise.
suspicion is an emotional consideration.
surrounded and space brothers are debunker/pseudo skeptic speak
i shall consider you the enemy
you have been warned
Many animals, primates and others, also have some kind of opposable thumb or toe:
* Bornean Orangutan - opposable thumbs on both hands and both feet. The interdigital grip gives them the ability to pick fruit.
* Gorillas-opposable on both hands and both feet.
* Chimpanzees have opposable thumbs on both hands and both feet.
* Lesser Apes have opposable thumbs on both hands and both feet.
* Old World Monkeys, with some exceptions, such as the genera, Piliocolobus and Colobus.
* Cebids (New World primates of Central and South America) - some have opposable thumbs.
* Koala - opposable toe on each foot, plus two opposable digits on each hand.
* Opossum - opposable thumb on rear feet.
* Giant Panda - Panda paws have five clawed fingers plus an extra bone that works like an opposable thumb. This "thumb" is not really a finger (like the human thumb is), but an extra-long sesamoid bone that works like a thumb.
* Troodon - a birdlike dinosaur with partially opposable thumbs.(wiki)
billion my ass
now
do you just vomit words into a post?
kinda like....let the letters spew where they may?
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Yes- but towards complexity not necessarily towards the kind of intelligence necessary for a technological culture - take cephalopods for example - highly evolved and complex - intelligent to the point they display behaviour only seen in higher ,mammals and primates (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/mg19826531.000-the-secret-language-of-cuttlefish.html )- easily as dexterous as H.sapiens - been around for much longer - and to date has not developed a technological culture.
Count those assumptions!
And yet even if they are correct, there's no reason the add the final and massive assumption that they would obligately lead - not simply to intelligence - which is fairly commonplace in the animal kingdom - but to a technological culture.
Indeed the fact that adaptations that lead to intelligence and/or enable tool use ARE relatively commonplace and yet technological cultures are decidedly singular within terrestrial species would suggest otherwise.
Its just healthy scepticism - I've seen the equations and they are LOADED with assumptions - they are an interesting mind experiment for sure , but until we have better data to plug into them I will remain sceptical
Thus neatly proving my point - thanks for that
One point I will concede is that we have indeed only just started looking - but the truth is out there - not down here as you assert
Anytime when the nuclear silos cover was opened due to international criseses. I could list those, but you need to do a little research on your own.
Let's throw in the couple of accidents when there was no political crisis just electrical problems and we already have 4-5 occasions when the Earth could have gone astray....
So it seems to me that since humans went nuclear in 1945, we had a chance of blowing ourselves up in about every 15 years....And that my friend is nothing compared to the universe's timetable...
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