The Rainbow of Spacetime:[More evidence spacetime is real]

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paddoboy

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http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/M...s_also_composed_of_a_certain_rainbow_999.html

Much like white light, spacetime is also composed of a certain rainbow

When white light is passed through a prism, the rainbow on the other side reveals a rich palette of colors. Theorists from the Faculty of Physics, University of Warsaw have shown that in models of the Universe using any of the quantum theories of gravity there must also be a 'rainbow' of sorts, composed of different versions of spacetime. The mechanism predicts that instead of a single, common spacetime, particles of different energies essentially sense slightly modified versions thereof.


dispersion-light-prism-clouds-sky-lg.jpg
Quantum particles of different energies sense different properties of spacetime. The effect is similar to the dispersion of light in prism: photons of different energies sense the same prism as having slightly different properties. Image courtesy FUW. For a larger version of this image please go here.
 
I wonder if the authors completely read or understood .01% of the following :
Mehdi Assanioussi said:
In this letter, we describe a general mechanism for emergence of a rainbow metric from a quantum
cosmological model. This idea is based on QFT on a quantum spacetime. Under general assump-
tions, we discover that the quantum spacetime on which the field propagates can be replaced by
a classical spacetime, whose metric depends explicitly on the energy of the field: as shown by an
analysis of dispersion relations, quanta of different energy propagate on different metrics, similar to
photons in a refractive material (hence the name “rainbow” used in the literature). In deriving this
result, we do not consider any specific theory of quantum gravity: the qualitative behavior of high-
energy particles on quantum spacetime relies only on the assumption that the quantum spacetime
is described by a wave-function Ψo in a Hilbert space HG.
^^above quoted^^ from http://www.academia.edu/15752968/Rainbow_metric_from_quantum_gravity

- from above : "In deriving this result, we do not consider any specific theory of quantum gravity: the qualitative behavior of high-energy particles on quantum spacetime relies only on the assumption that the quantum spacetime is described by a wave-function Ψo in a Hilbert space HG."

So...possibly you could explain how all this is : [More evidence spacetime is real] ?
 
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Different format but essentially the same.

Is there any possibility that you may be mistaken, paddoboy...
- http://www.academia.edu/15752968/Rainbow_metric_from_quantum_gravity , is the Paper that the "Pop-Science" articles are referencing.
Like I asked previously, I wonder if the authors completely read or understood .01% of the original Paper.

paddoboy, did you fully read or try to understand the Paper at the Link that I provided?

paddoboy, would you be so kind as to explain, in your own words, please, exactly what Hilbert Space is?

BTW, are the childish "emoji's" also "[More evidence spacetime is real]" ?
 
Is there any possibility that you may be mistaken, paddoboy...
Same possibility that you may be mistaken.
- http://www.academia.edu/15752968/Rainbow_metric_from_quantum_gravity , is the Paper that the "Pop-Science" articles are referencing.
Like I asked previously, I wonder if the authors completely read or understood .01% of the original Paper.
Your pop science cop out is the same cop out used by many that do not accept present day cosmology. I mean you have rejected the BB in the past...or is that not accepted the BB???:rolleyes: and as such its obvious you have a barrow to push....Go ahead and push it. It's totally irrelevant.
paddoboy, did you fully read or try to understand the Paper at the Link that I provided?
I understand it enough to know its essentially saying the same thing.
paddoboy, would you be so kind as to explain, in your own words, please, exactly what Hilbert Space is?
I'm not getting into your Q+A debacle similar to what the divine one uses. Suffice to say I stand by the articles/s...all of them.
BTW, are the childish "emoji's" also "[More evidence spacetime is real]" ?
Actually the childishness is originating from the fact that anyone could be so daft as to take offence by them....
Oh, and they will continue, when and if I so desire.
If you have a problem with that, then [1] Get them removed officially through the administrators altogether, or [2] Stop making statements where I see the need to apply them.
Have a good day, ya hear! :)
 
The actual paper........................
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0370269315008023
Rainbow metric from quantum gravity:
Abstract:

In this Letter, we describe a general mechanism for emergence of a rainbow metric from a quantum cosmological model. This idea is based on QFT on a quantum spacetime. Under general assumptions, we discover that the quantum spacetime on which the field propagates can be replaced by a classical spacetime, whose metric depends explicitly on the energy of the field: as shown by an analysis of dispersion relations, quanta of different energy propagate on different metrics, similar to photons in a refractive material (hence the name “rainbow” used in the literature). In deriving this result, we do not consider any specific theory of quantum gravity: the qualitative behaviour of high-energy particles on quantum spacetime relies only on the assumption that the quantum spacetime is described by a wave-function Ψo in a Hilbert space HG.
 
LOL, this is nice theoretical speculation about quantum gravity - but not more than speculation. It is in no meaning of the word in any way "evidence" for a reality of spacetime.
If that's the case, we need to give the whole shebang the boot.:rolleyes: including the superfluous ether.
Yes, a theoretical application certainly, but a theoretical application supporting spacetime and reality.
I'm sure if it worked the other way, all of GR's and spacetime reality opponents would be grabbing it with glee.
 
If that's the case, we need to give the whole shebang the boot.:rolleyes: including the superfluous ether.
Yes, a theoretical application certainly, but a theoretical application supporting spacetime and reality.
I'm sure if it worked the other way, all of GR's and spacetime reality opponents would be grabbing it with glee.
There is nothing supporting anything in this paper. It is a claim about some properties which a supposed theory of quantum gravity should have. It is not a viable theory of quantum gravity which is proposed. So, a large difference to my papers which propose viable ether theories for gravity and the SM.

And, no, if it "worked the other way", and the result would have been that in such quantum gravity theories were would be no such rainbow effects, it would not change anything - it would be exactly the same: a theoretical speculation paper about hypothetical theories of QG. Because there is nothing in the paper which would correspond to a "worked" (except, of course, that the researchers have worked to write this paper).

In fact, if you ask me which result would have been more in favour of GR, the "rainbow" result or the opposite "no rainbow" result, I would say the "rainbow" result is much more useful to construct arguments against GR. In this sense, thank you for possibly providing nice arguments against GR (as usual, without understanding it).
 
In fact, if you ask me which result would have been more in favour of GR, the "rainbow" result or the opposite "no rainbow" result, I would say the "rainbow" result is much more useful to construct arguments against GR. In this sense, thank you for possibly providing nice arguments against GR (as usual, without understanding it).

Yes, you have claimed much in your time here, and all concerning your superfluous unevidenced ether.
You are aslo obviously quite adept at twisting anything to suit your agenda, as you have shown in the past also, both in science and your political extremism.
And at least this paper has some citations, while your ether still lingers in oblivion...yeah I know "You don't care!"
I'll stick with the message from the paper and other links thank you.
 
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Its you who likes to repeat many many times some trivialities. Here, I have simply made a one-line summary of a quite short discussion, with two previous posts from myself. In reply to a post which contains the word "oblivion" (too lazy to count how many of your 55 occurrences are repetitions directed against me) and other of your beloved repetitions.
 
Its you who likes to repeat many many times some trivialities. Here, I have simply made a one-line summary of a quite short discussion, with two previous posts from myself. In reply to a post which contains the word "oblivion" (too lazy to count how many of your 55 occurrences are repetitions directed against me) and other of your beloved repetitions.
Trivialities? The only trivialities are concerning your repeated claim in all posts re an ether...And you whinge about repeats? Hypocrisy comes to mind.
Your summary of course is tainted due to your agenda and your belief in an ether rather than spacetime.
 
Same possibility that you may be mistaken.
No, paddoboy, it is NOT the same possibility that I may be mistaken - because I never stated that the Professional Paper, nor the "Pop-Science" articles that referenced that Professional Paper in any way, shape or form Claimed, Stated or Implied that it was indeed "[More evidence spacetime is real]".
I made NO statement to any affect that could be construed as mistaken...I merely presented the Link to the actual Published Professional Paper.

paddoboy, when you come across these "Pop-Science" articles - if you truly want to learn the REAL SCIENCE - why do you not simply TRY TO LEARN by researching the SOURCE, i.e. the PUBLISHED PROFESSIONAL PAPER - the Full Text is available to READ AND STUDIED.
After all, paddoboy, that is the way that us Real Professionals Learn the Real Science.

Your pop science cop out is the same cop out used by many that do not accept present day cosmology. I mean you have rejected the BB in the past...or is that not accepted the BB???:rolleyes: and as such its obvious you have a barrow to push....Go ahead and push it. It's totally irrelevant.
I suppose that I will have to give your Post A "LIKE", since it is just another one of your "run of the mill" Ad Hominem laden Diatribes that you must assume disguises the fact that you have nothing of any value to add to the discussion.
Not only do you have nothing to support your Statement : "[More evidence spacetime is real]", you will not even provide anything to SUPPORT your BLATANT AD HOMINEMS.
For instance, PLEASE provide your EVIDENCE that I, dmoe, "have a barrow to push" and that that "barrow" is "totally irrelevant".

I understand it enough to know its essentially saying the same thing.
So...did you completely read : http:www.academia.edu/15752968Rainbow_metric_from_quantum_gravity ?
If you did READ it, would you be so kind as to Post the "QUOTE" of where it STATES that it is : "[More evidence spacetime is real]" ?
I'm not getting into your Q+A debacle similar to what the divine one uses. Suffice to say I stand by the articles/s...all of them.
If you do not want to get into Questions and Answers, then why Pray Tell do you Post on a Science Forum - Heck if you do not want to participate in Finding Answers to Questions - then you must simply be feigning any TRUE interest in TRUE SCIENCE.

Actually the childishness is originating from the fact that anyone could be so daft as to take offence by them....
Oh, and they will continue, when and if I so desire.
More Ad Hominems -

If you have a problem with that, then [1] Get them removed officially through the administrators altogether, or [2] Stop making statements where I see the need to apply them.
Have a good day, ya hear! :)
So...just more paddoboy...doing whatever it is that you think qualifies as what you see as MAINSTREAM SCIENCE !
paddoboy, is this all that you can profer ?

Why do you not simply TRY TO LEARN, paddoboy?

To quote the late great Frank Zappa, “A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.”
 
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Paddoboy, This pointer is only and only for you..

In that GL thread you are maintaining (of course without understanding the concept) that lensing is achromatic, while refraction is chromatic....Chromatic is actually dispersion of white light into rainbow colors, so why are you taking contradictory stand ? Would you like to go ahead with achromatic nature of spacetime or you would as per your understanding of this pop science article go ahead with chromatic (rainbow) spacetime ?? You have to drop one, which one you wish to ?
 
No, paddoboy, it is NOT the same possibility that I may be mistaken -
In actual fact most of what you say is a mistake, as is obvious to most, you are driven by other factors.:rolleyes:
Your usual "pop science"cop out also adds to the comedy of errors you make.
Let me say again, that all links and articles basically say the same thing, despite your "Hilbert Space" mention:
After all, paddoboy, that is the way that us Real Professionals Learn the Real Science.
I revel in real science and I'm not a professional. Your posts actually reflect something entirely different to anything professional also.
On that score, your non professionalism, as reflected in your posts has been evidenced over most of my 2.5 years on this forum. [or thereabouts: I'll leave you to give us the exact figure ;)]
We do though obviously have a few professionals on this forum...rpenner being one, Aid another, and of course another old sparring partner of yours who also had to put up with the incoherency in your posts, Trippy,one of the mods we havn't seen for a while.

I suppose that I will have to give your Post A "LIKE", since it is just another one of your "run of the mill" Ad Hominem laden Diatribes that you must assume disguises the fact that you have nothing of any value to add to the discussion.
Yo do what you like my friend, it does not affect me in the least.
It's interesting to note though, that what you deem as adhoms, is just deserved criticism of the actions and meanings of your own posts.
Not only do you have nothing to support your Statement : "[More evidence spacetime is real]", you will not even provide anything to SUPPORT your BLATANT AD HOMINEMS.
For instance, PLEASE provide your EVIDENCE that I, dmoe, "have a barrow to push" and that that "barrow" is "totally irrelevant".
The article itself is evidence that it supports the reality of spacetime. Add that to the other obvious facts about spacetime, and the case for its reality is strong.
On your request for evidence for your barow you are pushing, I'll leave that one as I'm sure that is obvious to most on this forum that are familiar with your antics, including the mods.

So...did you completely read : http:www.academia.edu/15752968Rainbow_metric_from_quantum_gravity ?
If you did READ it, would you be so kind as to Post the "QUOTE" of where it STATES that it is : "[More evidence spacetime is real]" ?
Don't be so naive. The article was presenting a quantum method of revealing spacetime for what it is. It was not concerned with the question that we are discussing on this forum now.
Obviously though, like the god, the fact that you reject the BB...or is that really you do not accept the BB? :rolleyes:, is evident that you certainly have an agenda to misrepresent cosmology whenever you can, particularly of course when your's truly is pushing the "science barrow";)
If you do not want to get into Questions and Answers, then why Pray Tell do you Post on a Science Forum - Heck if you do not want to participate in Finding Answers to Questions - then you must simply be feigning any TRUE interest in TRUE SCIENCE.
Perhaps, as usual, you took that the wrong way...I'm speaking of questions with an agenda behind them, questions that are not genuine in acquiring an answer to gain knowledge, but questions that are designed to attempt to deride and treat with scorn......much as most of our anti science cranks are apt to do.
More Ad Hominems -
Not really: just valid criticism of errors and stupidity in your posts.

So...just more paddoboy...doing whatever it is that you think qualifies as what you see as MAINSTREAM SCIENCE !
paddoboy, is this all that you can profer ?
You are the one that suddenly decides to take offence at a few ;):D:rolleyes::smile:
I find it rather funny [funny peculiar, not funny haha] how any level headed person could misconstrue something that has been evident since the new forum format came into vogue :rolleyes:
Why do you not simply TRY TO LEARN, paddoboy?
I'm learning all the time, you?
To quote the late great Frank Zappa, “A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.”
But first you must have a parachute....or a mind. ;)
And dmoe, obviously you will reply, so I'll let you have that for free, OK? :p
 
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1512.05734v4.pdf

SN REFSDAL : PHOTOMETRY AND TIME DELAY MEASUREMENTS OF THE FIRST EINSTEIN CROSS SUPERNOVA

ABSTRACT
We present the first year of Hubble Space Telescope imaging of the unique supernova (SN) ’Refsdal’, a gravitationally lensed SN at z = 1.488 ± 0.001 with multiple images behind the galaxy cluster MACS J1149.6+2223. The first four observed images of SN Refsdal (images S1–S4) exhibited a slow rise (over ∼ 150 days) to reach a broad peak brightness around 20 April, 2015. Using a set of light curve templates constructed from SN 1987A-like peculiar Type II SNe, we measure time delays for the four images relative to S1 of 4±4 (for S2), 2±5 (S3), and 24±7 days (S4). The measured magnification ratios relative to S1 are 1.15±0.05 (S2), 1.01±0.04 (S3), and 0.34±0.02 (S4). None of the template light curves fully captures the photometric behavior of SN Refsdal, so we also derive complementary measurements for these parameters using polynomials to represent the intrinsic light curve shape. These more flexible fits deliver fully consistent time delays of 7±2 (S2), 0.6±3 (S3), and 27±8 days (S4). The lensing magnification ratios are similarly consistent, measured as 1.17±0.02 (S2), 1.00±0.01 (S3), and 0.38±0.02 (S4). We compare these measurements against published predictions from lens models, and find that the majority of model predictions are in very good agreement with our measurements. Finally, we discuss avenues for future improvement of time delay measurements – both for SN Refsdal and for other strongly lensed SNe yet to come.
astronomerso.jpg


SN Refsdal Time Delay Measurements 3 Fig. 1.— The MACS J1149.6+2223 field, showing the positions of the three primary images of the SN Refsdal host galaxy (labeled 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3). SN Refsdal appears as four point sources in an Einstein Cross configuration in the southeast spiral arm of image 1.1. The highlighted box is shown at the same scale in panels on the right side, which illustrate the removal of contaminating diffraction spikes from a difference image. Each difference image is centered on the location of the contaminating star (top panel), then rotated clockwise by 90◦ (middle panel). The rotated difference image is then subtracted from the initial difference image, removing most of the flux from the contaminating diffraction spike at the location of the SN Refsdal point sources (bottom panel).
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Of course also gravitational lensing is evidence for curved spacetime, and as a consequence, the reality of spacetime.
Light follows geodesical paths:
Gravitational lensing is an indication of curved spacetime.
Along with all the other evidence of spacetime like GP-B, the reality of such is overwhelming.
 
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