The perfect Society...
- Thread starter NenarTronian
- Start date
pumpkinsaren'torange
Registered Senior Member
that sounds suspiciously a bit like socialism..
Actually, socialism is a bit like a termite colony. Except in a termite colony a termite will never think of starting a revolution, accepting or offering a bribe, or wishing anything but good will for their country. They work at 100% effort 100% of the time. Not very much like, lets say, russians.
pumpkinsaren'torange
Registered Senior Member
damned ants!!pumpkinsaren'torange
Registered Senior Member
over here, we call 'em "gray" pants...
The main problem with socailism is tha teverybody has to want the system to work, adn work to make it work. obviously, that doesn't happen very often. The biggest problem with the USSR was that the government was easily corrupible, they spent too much money on the military, and the corrupt people in th egov't were not looking to the interests of the system.
Artificial-Intelligence Government
The question asks what a utopian society would be like, not if it works, so I'll answer that. I don't think an entirely utopian society will ever work with humans, especially as we are.
First, I'm surprised that no one has brought up AI. There would be a perfectly unbiased, benevolent planetary AI overseeing the world, in charge of all production, agriculture, and distibution. It would also keep close tabs on the environment, of course.
The government would be mostly fascist, with the AI in charge. It would prevent all murders, provide therapy, and all the other things that governments usually provide. At this point we would have quite a few pyschological treatments(brainwashing?), not too mention genetic ones.
Humans would be free to do whatever, as long as they don't infringe on others rights. Socializing, researching, recreation, taking trips across the solar system. Each person would be entitled to a certain amount of mass
This would probably be possible in a couple hundred years, if we actively pursued it. A problem would be overpopulation... no kids for people, I guess. People would still experience hurt in relationships, and problems with their social life maybe, but I don't see anyway to overcome this.
Most of this comes from those Reality Dysfunction books by Peter Hamilton, now that I think of it.
To tell the truth, if I didn't have to struggle to do anything, my life would lose it's meaning. If everthing was perfect, humans would probably turn into hedonistic slobs... but then, slobs makes the society unperfect.
The question asks what a utopian society would be like, not if it works, so I'll answer that. I don't think an entirely utopian society will ever work with humans, especially as we are.
First, I'm surprised that no one has brought up AI. There would be a perfectly unbiased, benevolent planetary AI overseeing the world, in charge of all production, agriculture, and distibution. It would also keep close tabs on the environment, of course.
The government would be mostly fascist, with the AI in charge. It would prevent all murders, provide therapy, and all the other things that governments usually provide. At this point we would have quite a few pyschological treatments(brainwashing?), not too mention genetic ones.
Humans would be free to do whatever, as long as they don't infringe on others rights. Socializing, researching, recreation, taking trips across the solar system. Each person would be entitled to a certain amount of mass
This would probably be possible in a couple hundred years, if we actively pursued it. A problem would be overpopulation... no kids for people, I guess. People would still experience hurt in relationships, and problems with their social life maybe, but I don't see anyway to overcome this.
Most of this comes from those Reality Dysfunction books by Peter Hamilton, now that I think of it.
To tell the truth, if I didn't have to struggle to do anything, my life would lose it's meaning. If everthing was perfect, humans would probably turn into hedonistic slobs... but then, slobs makes the society unperfect.
NenarTronian,
Education is the key. If we teach our children some basic values such as Love one another and, consequently, help one another; we may be able to make a natural society based on Love and care. The society would work naturally as if it were a single living body, in the same way our cells work to sustain our bodies. There would be no government. Everything and everyone would be self-governed.
Education is the key. If we teach our children some basic values such as Love one another and, consequently, help one another; we may be able to make a natural society based on Love and care. The society would work naturally as if it were a single living body, in the same way our cells work to sustain our bodies. There would be no government. Everything and everyone would be self-governed.
GRO$$!!
Long time no see! Where have you been?
Long time no see!
Where have you been?Sup I've been busy... life has been a rollercoaster all around 'Tis all cool. How ya been?
I didn't have much time to explain myself earlier, but why I believe to the key to a happier future is education is because it is education that will allow people to create this future.
In my opinion, this is a question of why government exists in the first place... why can't we just vote on EVERYTHING? I think politicians are elected to make decisions for us, because they know how to organise and work with making society work better.
The problem with that though, is that politicians can get greedy. Most current forms of gov'nt have solved this by making short-terms of service for presidency, senate, w/e sort of gov'nt... but the long term solution is having politically, economically, and overall educated people making sure people in office are the right people making the right decisions.
An example: George Bush and his recent tax cuts (forgive the GB bashing)
The economically un-aquainted person will go... "tax cuts... more money for me... good". Meanwhile, someone who has been familiarized basic economics understands that "tax cuts... current economy... utilization of expansionary fiscal policy... NOT too good for our economy at the moment...".
In the end, in order to make a better society with a better government, people must elect a good government right now, in order to do that, they must be well educated so they what a good government is and know what do demand from it.
I've been busy... life has been a rollercoaster all around 'Tis all cool. How ya been?I didn't have much time to explain myself earlier, but why I believe to the key to a happier future is education is because it is education that will allow people to create this future.
In my opinion, this is a question of why government exists in the first place... why can't we just vote on EVERYTHING? I think politicians are elected to make decisions for us, because they know how to organise and work with making society work better.
The problem with that though, is that politicians can get greedy. Most current forms of gov'nt have solved this by making short-terms of service for presidency, senate, w/e sort of gov'nt... but the long term solution is having politically, economically, and overall educated people making sure people in office are the right people making the right decisions.
An example: George Bush and his recent tax cuts (forgive the GB bashing)
The economically un-aquainted person will go... "tax cuts... more money for me... good". Meanwhile, someone who has been familiarized basic economics understands that "tax cuts... current economy... utilization of expansionary fiscal policy... NOT too good for our economy at the moment...".
In the end, in order to make a better society with a better government, people must elect a good government right now, in order to do that, they must be well educated so they what a good government is and know what do demand from it.
I've been well...
What I meant by education is that we should teach our children to NOT be selfish and greedy, but seek the greater good. If we really want to make a better society, then we need to work on our values, before we work on the system. The current system is based on greedy and selfish desires. There is no sense of service and collectivity. This is pretty bad, since we ARE a society, a whole. If one part fails, all the others are affected. This is what haven't been working. Of course, communism attempted that. But the problem with communism is that it just tried to change the system. What happened is that the people that were in power had the same values that the greedy capitalists have. So, you can see why it didn't work. The mistake of communism wasn't on the system, but they didn;t take care of the values first. This is the very core of our problems: our values.
What I meant by education is that we should teach our children to NOT be selfish and greedy, but seek the greater good. If we really want to make a better society, then we need to work on our values, before we work on the system. The current system is based on greedy and selfish desires. There is no sense of service and collectivity. This is pretty bad, since we ARE a society, a whole. If one part fails, all the others are affected. This is what haven't been working. Of course, communism attempted that. But the problem with communism is that it just tried to change the system. What happened is that the people that were in power had the same values that the greedy capitalists have. So, you can see why it didn't work. The mistake of communism wasn't on the system, but they didn;t take care of the values first. This is the very core of our problems: our values.
the common argument to though, is that people will always work for themselves with more effort than they will work for society... even though we ARE a part of siciety, I believe it will be quite some time before our brains can advance beyond "i go work, i get money... i have money, i can buy stuff" concept to the "i work to produce things for society which i then take back (in a different form maybe) when i spend my money"
peace
GRO$$,
It's just a matter of educating our children to be selfless, to regard others as more important as themselves. That should be the focus of their education.
It's just a matter of educating our children to be selfless, to regard others as more important as themselves. That should be the focus of their education.
That's just wonderful, Truthseeker. I have a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Now, Can I have all your money? I really, really need it. And after all, I'm more important than you. You just said so.
Again, education is important, otherwise your values would be like The Marquis'.... which apparently are self-centred.
Simply put, free will the ability to possess and own inanimate objects rules this out as a possibility.
You utopia society would need one thing that I don't think could ever come to be. Absolutely neeccesary for this to ever exist would be
A human's comfort with not having an opinion.
Without opinions only would this be possible. All other issues would be averted if every human had an exact common mindset in regards to everything around them. Any preference or disagreement would make it not a utopia for that one particular person, and thusly you would have your ANTAGONIST for the story about how the utopia came to an end.
Without the lead character in Orwell's 1984, everybody else was under the impression they are happy. Without the lead character in Brave New World, everybody else was made to be content. Both these stories are about opinion as a basic human need (and other things) . this is why it is not possible in a human society as we now are.
-HS Dropout
You utopia society would need one thing that I don't think could ever come to be. Absolutely neeccesary for this to ever exist would be
A human's comfort with not having an opinion.
Without opinions only would this be possible. All other issues would be averted if every human had an exact common mindset in regards to everything around them. Any preference or disagreement would make it not a utopia for that one particular person, and thusly you would have your ANTAGONIST for the story about how the utopia came to an end.
Without the lead character in Orwell's 1984, everybody else was under the impression they are happy. Without the lead character in Brave New World, everybody else was made to be content. Both these stories are about opinion as a basic human need (and other things) . this is why it is not possible in a human society as we now are.
-HS Dropout