The Noem/Lewandowski sex planes

[Seattle]

No, just making excuses for corruption in government officials and then going off on pseudo-sociology rant about how participation medals led to moral decay in progressive politics. Thank goodness you didn't gossip.

Noem's corruption begins well before her cabinet posting.

Following Bombshell AP Investigation Exposing Kristi Noem Corruption, DGA Files Public Records Requests - DGA

In response to a scathing report from the Associated Press showing South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem abused her taxpayer-funded office for the benefit of family members, the Democratic Governors Association sent public records requests to the Office of the Governor for all records concerning her...

democraticgovernors.org

Where do I make excuses for corruption in government? Why would I want corruption in government?

 

[Seattle]

For someone who criticises other people for taking things too literally, it is surprising that you are not taking the idea that "she bought" planes to mean that her organisation bought them, i.e. the fairly standard understanding of what was written. Yes, technically they said "she bought", but if she bought them for herself, the issue raised would be a non-issue: what she does with her own personal planes is of noone's business (unless she breaks the law in some manner with them). The context matters.
But, sure, whatever.

Ah, I see. Because my political views are what would be considered in the US as "progressive" - anything you think is of a progressive nature must therefore be in my wheelhouse. Got it. So, even accepting that participation medals would fall under the banner of "progressive" - which I don't accept - it must mean that I, as someone who does favour a number of progressive measures, must therefore be comfortable with them? In the same way that if I like ice-cream I must like all flavours of ice-cream, right?

Your argument is fallacious. First I don't accept that participation medals are in any way politically progressive. For some they may be seen that way. Not for me. It may sound like a useful bit of cultural rhetoric for you, but it fails in the specific.

Second, you are committing the slippery slope fallacy. There is no evidenced causal relationship, but you infer one at every step. I mean, you could probably blame home computers as well, and technological improvements in general. Things have improved markedly since the 80s, so, sure, let's blame them as well. What about global warming? We haven't blamed that for a while.

So, yeah, thanks for playing. And you seem to have dropped your medal.

Exchemist took it to mean that she bought it with embezzled money and therefore it was a criminal matter. Bill took it to be a sex plane. How do I know what "you people" are concerned about?

What would I blame home computers for exactly?

 

[Sarkus]

Exchemist took it to mean that she bought it with embezzled money and therefore it was a criminal matter. Bill took it to be a sex plane. How do I know what "you people" are concerned about?

You could ask, and seek clarification. Does that work for you?

What would I blame home computers for exactly?

Well, the growth of homes with home computers coincides with the growth of "progressive" politics. Or is it with the growth of "participation medals"? Who knows. And that's the point. Correlation doesn't equate to causation, and slippery slopes with no accepted causation between the elements are just as fallacious.

 

[Seattle]

You could ask, and seek clarification. Does that work for you?

Well, the growth of homes with home computers coincides with the growth of "progressive" politics. Or is it with the growth of "participation medals"? Who knows. And that's the point. Correlation doesn't equate to causation, and slippery slopes with no accepted causation between the elements are just as fallacious.

That's true.

If a kid screams for candy when he is taken to a grocery store and his mom gives him candy, he will keep misbehaving each time he goes to the grocery store .

If home computers were starting to be popular while he was a kid, that's correlation without causation. That's why I mentioned participation trophies and not home computers.

 

[TheVat]

And Noem is out! AFT. And she can't keep the sex jet.

WaPo:

Homeland Security Secretary Kristi L. Noem is being replaced, President Donald Trump said Thursday, after more than a year leading some of his administration’s most controversial missions to remove undocumented immigrants from the United States and dismantle the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

Trump announced the decision on social media and said Noem would be replaced with Sen. Markwayne Mullin (R-Okla.)

Me: Can't be worse than his predecessor, but his political views, e.g. Stop the Steal, 2020, generally point to another Turnip lickspittle. No surprise there.

 

[billvon]

Do you mean this plane has been bought with government money? How is this not criminal embezzlement?

Because she said it wasn't. She needed it. And she lets other people use it sometimes.

 

[billvon]

Do you really think she could embezzle enough to buy a plane and then no one would notice?

She could certainly embezzle enough to buy a plane, and many people would notice, and nothing would happen. The administration is above the law.

 

[billvon]

And Noem is out! AFT. And she can't keep the sex jet.

Hopefully she gets the sex toys back.

 

[Sarkus]

That's true.

If a kid screams for candy when he is taken to a grocery store and his mom gives him candy, he will keep misbehaving each time he goes to the grocery store .

If home computers were starting to be popular while he was a kid, that's correlation without causation. That's why I mentioned participation trophies and not home computers.

Then evidence the actual causation between participation trophies and the increase in progressive policies, and you may be on to something. And I do mean evidence, not just wishy-washy "oh, they both focus on inclusion, don't they?" type of nonsense. But you won't be able to. Because there is none. There is zero evidence, for example, that people who are awarded participation trophies feel entitled, work less hard in life, or any of the things that cultural rhetoric would have one believe. And I think you'll struggle to find any evidence that people who feel entitled favour progressive policies over other policies. There may be some anecdotal evidence, but then there's anecdotal evidence for alien visitation as well.
But, hey, knock yourself out trying.

 

[TheVat]

Hopefully she gets the sex toys back.

Like Corey you mean?

 

[exchemist]

And Noem is out! AFT. And she can't keep the sex jet.

WaPo:

Homeland Security Secretary Kristi L. Noem is being replaced, President Donald Trump said Thursday, after more than a year leading some of his administration’s most controversial missions to remove undocumented immigrants from the United States and dismantle the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

Trump announced the decision on social media and said Noem would be replaced with Sen. Markwayne Mullin (R-Okla.)

Me: Can't be worse than his predecessor, but his political views, e.g. Stop the Steal, 2020, generally point to another Turnip lickspittle. No surprise there.

Well, well. So her behaviour has been too much even for Trump (and presumably for MAGA, hence the sudden defenestration) after all. One wonders whether the ICE Sturmabteilung will continue as before or will get different instructions now.

 

[Seattle]

Then evidence the actual causation between participation trophies and the increase in progressive policies, and you may be on to something. And I do mean evidence, not just wishy-washy "oh, they both focus on inclusion, don't they?" type of nonsense. But you won't be able to. Because there is none. There is zero evidence, for example, that people who are awarded participation trophies feel entitled, work less hard in life, or any of the things that cultural rhetoric would have one believe. And I think you'll struggle to find any evidence that people who feel entitled favour progressive policies over other policies. There may be some anecdotal evidence, but then there's anecdotal evidence for alien visitation as well.
But, hey, knock yourself out trying.

Show me "evidence" for any opinion that you hold. Show me evidence that enabling poor behavior leads to more poor behavior.

 

[DaveC426913]

Show me evidence that enabling poor behavior leads to more poor behavior.

Well, in courts of law, repeat offenders are punished more harshly, presumably this is because habitual offenders need a bigger boot to kick some sense into them. Is this really in dispute?

 

[Seattle]

Well, in courts of law, repeat offenders are punished more harshly, presumably this is because habitual offenders need a bigger boot to kick some sense into them. Is this really in dispute?

Most common sense isn't in dispute.

 

[billvon]

Like Corey you mean?

I never thought about that! Does Cory come with the plane? Does Mullins have to, you know, service him?

 

[James R]

Yes, she is the head of Homeland Security and the planes are for official travel.

Wouldn't it be cheaper for her to travel business class on regular flights?

What about that huge national debt you keep talking about? You don't seem very concerned about the government splashing out on sumptuous luxury jet planes for the people closest to the Orange One.

Why is that?

 

[Seattle]

Wouldn't it be cheaper for her to travel business class on regular flights?

What about that huge national debt you keep talking about? You don't seem very concerned about the government splashing out on sumptuous luxury jet planes for the people closest to the Orange One.

Why is that?

I don't care one way of the other. I don't try to micromanage the government. If I was in charge of cutting government debt, I wouldn't start with worrying about whether cabinet secretaries flew on government planes or commercial planes.

That has nothing to do with the thread. It was about a "sex plane" and the wording was that she bought it and someone was even concerned that maybe she was "embezzling"? I don't even like her. No one does.

Why are you so easily distracted? Do you have issues focusing on the signal rather than the noise?

But yes, to answer your question, it would probably be cheaper for everyone in government to fly commercial and everyone in business for that matter. It would also be better for government officials not to buy "sex planes". Satisfied?

It was also be better if there was no war, only peace, no sickness, everyone got along, etc.

 

[James R]

I don't care one way of the other. I don't try to micromanage the government. If I was in charge of cutting government debt, I wouldn't start with worrying about whether cabinet secretaries flew on government planes or commercial planes.

Do you think these plane purchases (or plans to purchase) are just one of the "Trump administration’s cost-effective and innovative ways of delivering on the American people’s mandate for mass deportations of criminal illegal aliens"?

That has nothing to do with the thread. It was about a "sex plane" and the wording was that she bought it and someone was even concerned that maybe she was "embezzling"? I don't even like her. No one does.

She has been moved to a place in the administration where she will be less visible and less able to cause further damage to the reputation of the administration (as if further damage would make much difference). Not fired, though, obviously.

Why are you so easily distracted?

I'm not. I'm posting on topic about the sex planes.

Do you have issues focusing on the signal rather than the noise?

I don't think so. What are you referring to?

But yes, to answer your question, it would probably be cheaper for everyone in government to fly commercial and everyone in business for that matter. It would also be better for government officials not to buy "sex planes". Satisfied?

Yes. I'm glad we clarified your views on those things. That's all I wanted to know.

Thanks, Seattle!

It was also be better if there was no war, only peace, no sickness, everyone got along, etc.

Again, we find ourselves in furious agreement. That makes a nice change. Keep it up!

 

[Seattle]

Do you think these plane purchases (or plans to purchase) are just one of the "Trump administration’s cost-effective and innovative ways of delivering on the American people’s mandate for mass deportations of criminal illegal aliens"?

She has been moved to a place in the administration where she will be less visible and less able to cause further damage to the reputation of the administration (as if further damage would make much difference). Not fired, though, obviously.

I'm not. I'm posting on topic about the sex planes.

I don't think so. What are you referring to?

Yes. I'm glad we clarified your views on those things. That's all I wanted to know.

Thanks, Seattle!

Again, we find ourselves in furious agreement. That makes a nice change. Keep it up!

I'm reasonable. I'm just not an unthinking cheerleader. A good idea is a good idea and a bad one is a bad idea. It's not about "sides". She didn't buy a plane for sex parties. I'm surprised you got involved in such a silly thread to begin with.

 

[James R]

She didn't buy a plane for sex parties.

Sounds like her planes are equipped for sex parties.