The Legend of Moses

M

Mohsen Ezz El-Din Al-Bakr

Registered Member
If Pharaoh and his soldiers truly drowned in the sea, as the religious narratives claim, then it is self-evident — scientifically and logically — that we should find material evidence:
chariot wheels, weapons, remnants of human bones, skulls, horse skeletons… anything that indicates an entire army drowned at once.
We are not talking about one or two individuals, but about a massive event that is supposed to have changed the course of history, and which the three religions believe in, representing nearly half of the world’s population.
The question is very simple:
Where is the evidence?
The floor of the Red Sea has undergone scientific surveys, submersible explorations, and geological and archaeological research.
And yet:
— no wheels
— no bones
— no skulls
— no remains of an army
— not a single material trace that can be scientifically documented
Is it reasonable that an entire army could disappear without leaving a single trace?
If this event is a historical reality, proving it is not impossible.
And if there is no material evidence after all this time and scientific advancement, then the question becomes legitimate and necessary:
Are we facing a historical event…
or an article of faith that has been treated as an absolute truth without scrutiny?
I say it clearly:
I challenge — collectively — the followers of the three religions to present one single piece of material evidence, scientifically documented, that proves this claim — not a sacred text, not an interpretation, not belief… but evidence from reality.
You represent half of the world’s population. Gather what you collect to proselytize Christianity, what is also collected for Islamic preaching, and what Jews collect in funds to support their mythical narrative. This time, allocate it to divers — it would be far more eloquent and far more effective in your calls for people to follow your religion.
You will certainly find nothing but nonsense and illusion.
...
...
my regards
Always giving
 
Mohsen Ezz El-Din Al-Bakr said:
If Pharaoh and his soldiers truly drowned in the sea, as the religious narratives claim, then it is self-evident — scientifically and logically — that we should find material evidence:
chariot wheels, weapons, remnants of human bones, skulls, horse skeletons… anything that indicates an entire army drowned at once.
We are not talking about one or two individuals, but about a massive event that is supposed to have changed the course of history, and which the three religions believe in, representing nearly half of the world’s population.
The question is very simple:
Where is the evidence?
The floor of the Red Sea has undergone scientific surveys, submersible explorations, and geological and archaeological research.
And yet:
— no wheels
— no bones
— no skulls
— no remains of an army
— not a single material trace that can be scientifically documented
Is it reasonable that an entire army could disappear without leaving a single trace?
If this event is a historical reality, proving it is not impossible.
And if there is no material evidence after all this time and scientific advancement, then the question becomes legitimate and necessary:
Are we facing a historical event…
or an article of faith that has been treated as an absolute truth without scrutiny?
I say it clearly:
I challenge — collectively — the followers of the three religions to present one single piece of material evidence, scientifically documented, that proves this claim — not a sacred text, not an interpretation, not belief… but evidence from reality.
You represent half of the world’s population. Gather what you collect to proselytize Christianity, what is also collected for Islamic preaching, and what Jews collect in funds to support their mythical narrative. This time, allocate it to divers — it would be far more eloquent and far more effective in your calls for people to follow your religion.
You will certainly find nothing but nonsense and illusion.
...
...
my regards
Always giving
Click to expand...
Yes history does not support the Biblical claims regarding the Exodus and Scholars acknowledge this.
This is not new Mohsen.

Have you read Israel Finkelstein and Francesca Stavrakopoulou?
 
Mohsen Ezz El-Din Al-Bakr said:
If Pharaoh and his soldiers truly drowned in the sea, as the religious narratives claim, then it is self-evident — scientifically and logically — that we should find material evidence:
chariot wheels, weapons, remnants of human bones, skulls, horse skeletons… anything that indicates an entire army drowned at once.
We are not talking about one or two individuals, but about a massive event that is supposed to have changed the course of history, and which the three religions believe in, representing nearly half of the world’s population.
The question is very simple:
Where is the evidence?
The floor of the Red Sea has undergone scientific surveys, submersible explorations, and geological and archaeological research.
And yet:
— no wheels
— no bones
— no skulls
— no remains of an army
— not a single material trace that can be scientifically documented
Is it reasonable that an entire army could disappear without leaving a single trace?
If this event is a historical reality, proving it is not impossible.
And if there is no material evidence after all this time and scientific advancement, then the question becomes legitimate and necessary:
Are we facing a historical event…
or an article of faith that has been treated as an absolute truth without scrutiny?
I say it clearly:
I challenge — collectively — the followers of the three religions to present one single piece of material evidence, scientifically documented, that proves this claim — not a sacred text, not an interpretation, not belief… but evidence from reality.
You represent half of the world’s population. Gather what you collect to proselytize Christianity, what is also collected for Islamic preaching, and what Jews collect in funds to support their mythical narrative. This time, allocate it to divers — it would be far more eloquent and far more effective in your calls for people to follow your religion.
You will certainly find nothing but nonsense and illusion.
...
...
my regards
Always giving
Click to expand...
What does Islam teach about the stories in Exodus? Does it regard them as historical fact, or as legends?
 
Mohsen Ezz El-Din Al-Bakr said:
Who told you I'm a Muslim?I don't believe in any religion; they're all myths.
Click to expand...
I didn't say you were, actually :) . But from your classic muslim name, I assume you come from a society with a muslim culture and will be a lot more familiar with Islam than I am. Do you know how these stories are treated in Islam?

In Christianity they are treated as possibly true or at any rate containing a grain of truth, though I remember learning, even at junior school, that there is a lot of uncertainty about things like the crossing of the Red Sea. So a good story but maybe a bit of a "fisherman's tale". But then my background is Catholic. Some evangelical Protestants (the kind of people who take the Genesis creation story literally) no doubt think it happened exactly as recounted in Exodus. So there is a spectrum of views.
 
Mohsen Ezz El-Din Al-Bakr said:
If Pharaoh and his soldiers truly drowned in the sea, as the religious narratives claim, then it is self-evident — scientifically and logically — that we should find material evidence:
chariot wheels, weapons, remnants of human bones, skulls, horse skeletons… anything that indicates an entire army drowned at once.
We are not talking about one or two individuals, but about a massive event that is supposed to have changed the course of history, and which the three religions believe in, representing nearly half of the world’s population.
The question is very simple:
Where is the evidence?
The floor of the Red Sea has undergone scientific surveys, submersible explorations, and geological and archaeological research.
And yet:
— no wheels
— no bones
— no skulls
— no remains of an army
— not a single material trace that can be scientifically documented
Is it reasonable that an entire army could disappear without leaving a single trace?
If this event is a historical reality, proving it is not impossible.
And if there is no material evidence after all this time and scientific advancement, then the question becomes legitimate and necessary:
Are we facing a historical event…
or an article of faith that has been treated as an absolute truth without scrutiny?
I say it clearly:
I challenge — collectively — the followers of the three religions to present one single piece of material evidence, scientifically documented, that proves this claim — not a sacred text, not an interpretation, not belief… but evidence from reality.
You represent half of the world’s population. Gather what you collect to proselytize Christianity, what is also collected for Islamic preaching, and what Jews collect in funds to support their mythical narrative. This time, allocate it to divers — it would be far more eloquent and far more effective in your calls for people to follow your religion.
You will certainly find nothing but nonsense and illusion.
...
...
my regards
Always giving
Click to expand...
Их уже давно всех рыбы съели. А оружие сгнило от ржавчины.
 
exchemist said:
I didn't say you were, actually :) . But from your classic muslim name, I assume you come from a society with a muslim culture and will be a lot more familiar with Islam than I am. Do you know how these stories are treated in Islam?

In Christianity they are treated as possibly true or at any rate containing a grain of truth, though I remember learning, even at junior school, that there is a lot of uncertainty about things like the crossing of the Red Sea. So a good story but maybe a bit of a "fisherman's tale". But then my background is Catholic. Some evangelical Protestants (the kind of people who take the Genesis creation story literally) no doubt think it happened exactly as recounted in Exodus. So there is a spectrum of views.
Click to expand...


All the myths found in the Torah were literally transferred to Islam: Noah, Moses, Jonah’s whale, and others... however, Islam and Muslims differ in that if you question these myths, you will be harmed. They absolutely do not accept questioning. Originally, Muhammad's wealthy wife, Khadija, was his primary supporter. Despite being much older than him, Muhammad effectively traded his youth for her wealth and status. During her lifetime, he never dared to indulge in his later womanizing tendencies. It was her cousin, the priest Waraqa, who dictated the early narratives to him. Muhammad used to travel on Khadija’s trading journeys and meet the monk Bahira. This was during the Meccan period when Muhammad was weak. However, after Khadija died and he moved to Yathrib (Medina), he became powerful, and his behavior shifted radically. He began to "run wild" after women in every direction. His verses transformed into verses of violence, destruction, and enslavement. All the verses—with all due respect to you and your followers—began to serve Muhammad's lustful desires; any woman he liked, he would justify marrying through a specific verse. Furthermore, there was a tribal conflict between the Hashimite clan and the Umayyad clan. These families were cousins, and their conflict began as a family power struggle before the advent of Islam. Muhammad came and tipped the scales in favor of the Hashimites, but later, the Umayyads regained control of key state positions. This is the entire story of Islam up to the present day. The Shi'a represent a continuation of the Hashimite faction, still cursing the enemies of Banu Hashim to this day. Meanwhile, the Sunnis represent the Umayyad faction, or the "reconciliatory" current that deliberately ignores the early massacres to maintain power. Both are bloody and destructive, but the Sunnis have been more devastating globally, as they were the ones who plundered the world under the guise of the "Islamic Caliphate," a legacy of conquest and destruction they still long for today. Islam is a struggle for influence and power, which began with the appropriation of myths to provide religious justification, then transformed into a force of conquest, plunder, and pillage. Its entire history is bloody.
 
The essence of the story (escape from slavery in Egypt) could be true with highly exaggerated details.
There are also possible esoteric and symbolic interpretations.
 
Mohsen Ezz El-Din Al-Bakr said:
All the myths found in the Torah were literally transferred to Islam: Noah, Moses, Jonah’s whale, and others... however, Islam and Muslims differ in that if you question these myths, you will be harmed. They absolutely do not accept questioning. Originally, Muhammad's wealthy wife, Khadija, was his primary supporter. Despite being much older than him, Muhammad effectively traded his youth for her wealth and status. During her lifetime, he never dared to indulge in his later womanizing tendencies. It was her cousin, the priest Waraqa, who dictated the early narratives to him. Muhammad used to travel on Khadija’s trading journeys and meet the monk Bahira. This was during the Meccan period when Muhammad was weak. However, after Khadija died and he moved to Yathrib (Medina), he became powerful, and his behavior shifted radically. He began to "run wild" after women in every direction. His verses transformed into verses of violence, destruction, and enslavement. All the verses—with all due respect to you and your followers—began to serve Muhammad's lustful desires; any woman he liked, he would justify marrying through a specific verse. Furthermore, there was a tribal conflict between the Hashimite clan and the Umayyad clan. These families were cousins, and their conflict began as a family power struggle before the advent of Islam. Muhammad came and tipped the scales in favor of the Hashimites, but later, the Umayyads regained control of key state positions. This is the entire story of Islam up to the present day. The Shi'a represent a continuation of the Hashimite faction, still cursing the enemies of Banu Hashim to this day. Meanwhile, the Sunnis represent the Umayyad faction, or the "reconciliatory" current that deliberately ignores the early massacres to maintain power. Both are bloody and destructive, but the Sunnis have been more devastating globally, as they were the ones who plundered the world under the guise of the "Islamic Caliphate," a legacy of conquest and destruction they still long for today. Islam is a struggle for influence and power, which began with the appropriation of myths to provide religious justification, then transformed into a force of conquest, plunder, and pillage. Its entire history is bloody.
Click to expand...
As were many historical theocracies and empires. I am familiar with the texts not so much the history of Islam.
 
There are other fundamental problems with the Exodus narrative. For example, there is no evidence that the Egyptians ever kept large numbers of Hebrew slaves.
 
The story can also be conceived as an allegory of awakening, destroying the blocking ego, passing through the sea of false desire. then the desert of attaining wisdom, to a new reality.
 
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