The Iron Shirt...Is it a Myth?

Carcano

Carcano

Valued Senior Member
Many Asian martial arts involve developing what is called the 'iron shirt' whereby the human body can be made imperious to strikes which would normally cause serious damage.

Is it a magician's trick designed to fool gullible followers?

Or a reality that defies known science?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyPYe2Uwlvs
 
It looks real, but if you look at 2:36 when the man punches he breezes just to the side. Maybe that's why he punched again. The first punch may have been a mistake. Then again I highly doubt someone who has been trained even for a short amount of time would miss him. Also, the kicks appeared to be pretty powerful, but for someone trained in this stuff it can't be that hard to pull back so it looks like they are kicking him with full force. Although, this could be real.
 
Carcano said:
Many Asian martial arts involve developing what is called the 'iron shirt' whereby the human body can be made imperious to strikes which would normally cause serious damage.

Is it a magician's trick designed to fool gullible followers?

Or a reality that defies known science?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyPYe2Uwlvs
Click to expand...

Take my word for it these are gimmicks that tradition martial arts (Kung Fu mainly) love to do as proof of how effective a certain styles are.
They are circus tricks that anyone can learn and have nothing to do with fighting, Harry Houdini used to do that “I can take a blow trick”, and unexpected blow ruptured his appendix and caused his death.

If you Google martial art sites you’ll find many people claiming superpower that can be gained from their style of fighting these are all are Bull. If you want to look on Youtube or watch UFC 1 to 3 you’ll see how Traditional so called Grandmasters fare against real fighters.
Have a look at the martial arts social group.

Here is a link to one traditional master who was dumb enough to issue an actual challenge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

But it seems to work well when he does it with his own guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc&feature=related

Funny that!
 
ScaryMonster said:
They are circus tricks that anyone can learn and have nothing to do with fighting, Harry Houdini used to do that “I can take a blow trick”, and unexpected blow ruptured his appendix and caused his death.
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I dont know anything about Houdini but I imagine he suffered injury because it was, as you say, unexpected.

It does appear as if these conditions are performed with conscious concentration....as opposed to being 'on' all the time.

One thing I noticed though, its only effective against body blows.

No strikes to the face here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwBmA8r9v40&feature=player_embedded
 
ScaryMonster said:
Here is a link to one traditional master who was dumb enough to issue an actual challenge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I
Click to expand...
I find this video very interesting btw. I dont think the master is 'traditional' because there is no tradition of throwing people around without any physical contact whatsoever.

Not even the founder of Aikido could do that.

He has no credentials that I can find. However, whats interesting is how his students seem to be under the same kind of hypnotic conditioning as you see at a faith healing, where guys like Benny Hinn slay people at a distance with the power of the holy spirit.
 
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ScaryMonster said:
If you want to look on Youtube or watch UFC 1 to 3 you’ll see how Traditional so called Grandmasters fare against real fighters.
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Havent found any yet but this is something I'm curious about.

Most likely what happens in Kung-Fu vs MMA is the MMA guy rushing forward and neutralizing any striking techniques with an arm lock to the head, torso or legs.

Once the fight is on the ground its all over.
 
Carcano said:
Havent found any yet but this is something I'm curious about.

Most likely what happens in Kung-Fu vs MMA is the MMA guy rushing forward and neutralizing any striking techniques with an arm lock to the head, torso or legs.

Once the fight is on the ground its all over.
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Yes that’s how it usually goes, in the 60s and 70s the myth of the martial arts master was born.
It actually started earlier with Mr. Motto the master of JuiJitsu movies, although Juijitsu and Judo are pretty practical sorts of grappling.
The thing that happened in the 60s was that things like breaking boards and bricks became a spectacle at Karate demonstrations, so the logic went if this man can break a pile of bricks with his bare hands then his strikes must be much more powerful then a boxers punches. QED
Only it wasn’t true! Breaking is a trick, not a proof of ones fighting skill, also amongst groups like Kung Fu exponents the drills and fighting moves became ritualized, they worked when they were fighting someone else who also used this ritualized method but fails miserably when they fight someone who isn’t constrained by the rules.

That’s what happens when a Wing Chun dude fights an MMA fighter, which brings me to the point on Iron Shirt, the type of punching the Wing Chun Kung Fu guys are doing is called chain punching the idea is to strike in rapid succession as fast as they can.
Only problem about it is that its not very powerful or effective against anyone except other Wing Chun guys.
You saw the complaint type thing with the Kiai Master demonstration? That’s not an unusual phenomena in traditional martial arts, the point is that the students comply with the teacher because they want to believe that when they are learning is empowering and effective, its almost cultist in that sense.
 
ScaryMonster said:
the point is that the students comply with the teacher because they want to believe that when they are learning is empowering and effective, its almost cultist in that sense.
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Fucking 'A' dude, how many people are going to kick an old man down in his own Quoon?

Although I have shown disrespect for a Sensei who was a bullshitter when I was studying Jiu Jitsu, and I smacked him in the face. He asked me to, so I did, I did not pull my punch, and I certainly didn't telegraph it like other students did. I think he learned more than me that day.
 
Yeah, wow, I felt kind of sorry for the old man. It's like he was feeding his kids so much BS that he started liking the taste himself :S

I don't know much about MMA or Kiai but I know a guy who is a professional cage-fighter. He's a psycho. He musy have a lot of testosterone and it seems like he's board to death of normal life. He also can not drink alcohol or he ends up in jail. He can't sit still either. Constantly paces back and forth ALL the TIME. Can't hold a relationship either. He was over to my grandparents house and we were having some drinks and he ate through like 2 whole chickens! and then wanted to go out to dinner. he started swearing and complaining and couldn't stop pacing. I only met him a few times and that was a enough for me. He's just too psycho. He said he only feels OK in the cage getting ready to kill or get killed. That's it. He seems to do well enough so I think he has a killer instinct together with a lot of training? he's not that tall either. My other buddy said he's like a killer. He just wants to kill. All the time....

creepy....
 
Michael said:
Yeah, wow, I felt kind of sorry for the old man. It's like he was feeding his kids so much BS that he started liking the taste himself :S

I don't know much about MMA or Kiai but I know a guy who is a professional cage-fighter. He's a psycho. He musy have a lot of testosterone and it seems like he's board to death of normal life. He also can not drink alcohol or he ends up in jail. He can't sit still either. Constantly paces back and forth ALL the TIME. Can't hold a relationship either. He was over to my grandparents house and we were having some drinks and he ate through like 2 whole chickens! and then wanted to go out to dinner. he started swearing and complaining and couldn't stop pacing. I only met him a few times and that was a enough for me. He's just too psycho. He said he only feels OK in the cage getting ready to kill or get killed. That's it. He seems to do well enough so I think he has a killer instinct together with a lot of training? he's not that tall either. My other buddy said he's like a killer. He just wants to kill. All the time....

creepy....
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Yeah there are some dickheads doing mixed martial arts but it seems that the really good ones aren’t all pricks.
It takes a lot of hard work and dedication to become a good grappler or kickboxer, and the thug types only ever last at it a year or two, you should see the job we do on idiots who pick on beginners in my Brazilian JuiJitsu club!
Everyone love it when one of these psycho macho men gets choked out by a purple belt girl and pisses his pants.
 
ScaryMonster said:
Yeah there are some dickheads doing mixed martial arts but it seems that the really good ones aren’t all pricks.
It takes a lot of hard work and dedication to become a good grappler or kickboxer, and the thug types only ever last at it a year or two, you should see the job we do on idiots who pick on beginners in my Brazilian JuiJitsu club!
Everyone love it when one of these psycho macho men gets choked out by a purple belt girl and pisses his pants.
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hahaha - that would be really good to see :D

I remember something sort of similar happening in a martial arts class I had when I was 14 or so. Some 6 foot tall thug started punching on one of the girls (a small korean) during his first lesson. He was punching her full throttle. Leaving these huge marks on her. She accidentally knocked him unconscious and somehow he ended up with a broken nose. Which was amazing considering he was about twice as tall as her. I missed seeing what happened :( Probably talking instead of paying attention!
 
I know a martial artist (Hapkido) who practices similar techniques to develop what they call internal power. Of course, his core muscles are also incredibly conditioned. I think the breathing techniques combine somehow with the muscle development to make ordinary blows tolerable. It is known, for instance, that drunk people can fall down without hurting themselves because they are relaxed.

My friend does this thing where you put your arm straight against his abdomen, and he gives you a shove using only those muscles. He says he has a "monster" in his stomach.
 
Michael said:
He must have a lot of testosterone and it seems like he's board to death of normal life. He also can not drink alcohol or he ends up in jail.
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Testosterone and ethanol are the two most destructive molecules on the planet.

Whoever has an excess of the former should stay away from the latter.
 
spidergoat said:
I know a martial artist (Hapkido) who practices similar techniques to develop what they call internal power. Of course, his core muscles are also incredibly conditioned. I think the breathing techniques combine somehow with the muscle development to make ordinary blows tolerable. It is known, for instance, that drunk people can fall down without hurting themselves because they are relaxed.

My friend does this thing where you put your arm straight against his abdomen, and he gives you a shove using only those muscles. He says he has a "monster" in his stomach.
Click to expand...

Yeah its a trick, one which the Hapkido founder actually stole from Daito Ryu JuiJitsu, in actual fact the credential of the Hapkido founder are suspect as he claimed to be a like in student of Sokaku Takeda the Daito Ryu founder. He even claimed to be his adopted son.
Which is highly unlikely give the animosity that traditional Japanese have toward Koreans, also one in Daito Ryu circles ever remembers Choi Yong Sul ever having trained with Sokaku Takeda.
Daito Ryu was a precursor to Aikido which was founded by Morihei Ueshiba.

Damn some of thinks I remember about martial arts? Don’t get me started on Dillman!
 
Dillman

phlogistician said:
Fucking 'A' dude, how many people are going to kick an old man down in his own Quoon?

Although I have shown disrespect for a Sensei who was a bullshitter when I was studying Jiu Jitsu, and I smacked him in the face. He asked me to, so I did, I did not pull my punch, and I certainly didn't telegraph it like other students did. I think he learned more than me that day.
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsSz...8DA1CA9A&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=34

I mentioned Dillman, and so I probably have to elaboration on what I mean, Dillman is a con man those people pay money to be fed bullshit.
There so many things wrong about that seminar on so many levels! Not the least of it is a prepubescent child with a black belt.
Dillman runs what is called a McDojo, he charges for everything and will issue certification certificates even if you do a mail order course.
And 8th degree masters! According to whom?
And he’s chi bolts don’t work on sceptics because they know how to point their toes up! WTF

And then there’s his student Tom Cameron “The human stun gun”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdrzBL2dHMI
Who’s deadly Dim Mak only works on people who believe in it and apparently Mixed Martial artists are too highly trained as athletes for it to work on them.
 
ScaryMonster said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsSz...8DA1CA9A&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=34
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Hoo boy, he was riffing there for sure, making up the excuses with the tongue and toes, ...

Why did they keep calling Dillman a 'Karate' master in the voice over? Chi is Kung Fu, Chinese. Karate Japanese, nearest to Chi is the 'Kia' but as we know, that's a very definite thing, beathing, and shouting, not mystic energy.

Dillman runs what is called a McDojo,
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My other half attended a McDojo for a while. I went to observe her grading. In her 'class' there were another two girls, and two guys. One of the girls was 'bunny boxing' with cocked wrists when she should have been demonstrating Kata, and sensei, did he correct her? No, he wasn't really paying attention. One of the guys was fucking awesome, precise, fast, and graceful. Just how these two were in the same class escaped me. All graduated their grading, when there was a clear gradient in skill, and bunny boxer needed remedial training, but hey, it was a McDojo, please come again and keep paying. Anyway, I resisted the urge to challenge sensei, and just told my other half she was wasting her money.

And then there’s his student Tom Cameron “The human stun gun”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdrzBL2dHMI
Who’s deadly Dim Mak only works on people who believe in it and apparently Mixed Martial artists are too highly trained as athletes for it to work on them.
Click to expand...

Ha, that was funny. Proves it's all just kissing the instructor's ass and polishing his ego, but of course, they always have an excuse for why this deadly techique fails. (Good to see Stephan Bonnar in that vid, and I reckoned he got shafted by the judges on 'The Ultimate Fighter')
 
Mc Dojo ad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOarzp3Rm8Y

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDojo

"Let's say you join a martial arts club, partly on the dojo's literature that claims it's the exclusive representative in the United States of a 1,000 year old mystical martial arts only taught previously to Chinese Taoist sages.

Cool, you think. You're learning stuff only few Westerners are privy to, and it raises your status during cocktail hour discussions. As you break a sweat during training sessions and fork over the monthly dues, you don't mind. You're imagining that you're in the footsteps of ancient samurai warriors, or Taoist mystics.

But are you? Or are you and your money being neatly parted by a con artist who knows how to use just the right words to scam you, and what you are learning is only a mish-mash of techniques stolen from videotapes and obscure books?" Wayne Muromoto.

If your Caucasian master of Janken-Po-ryu squints his eyes to look more oriental and slurs his speech like a combination Marlon Brando and Master Po, but he's lived most of his life in Butte, Montana, don't think he's a wise master. Think that this guy's got some serious mental problems.
 
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