The Epstein files

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billvon

Valued Senior Member
So far Trump has made three claims about the remaining Epstein files:

"There's bad stuff about me in the files because Obama and Biden made it up and put it there!"
"There's no bad stuff about me in the files because if there was they would have used it by now."
"There are no files."

The only question that remains - are any Trump supporters dumb enough to believe all three of his claims?
 
DaveC426913 said:
Did he actually say that?

It is by far the most damning. He is admitting his name is in the files.
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Yep. The exact quote:

"And I would say that, you know, these files were made up by Comey, they were made up by Obama, they were made up by the Biden."
 
Epstein list: The terms "Epstein list" and "Epstein files" also refers to the myriad of court documents relating to Epstein, some of which have been publicly released. For example, court documents and flight logs have already named various prominent individuals as having travelled with Epstein, or been in contact with him.

Flight logs and other types of associations with Epstein.

Even if the purported flight logs here were actually real, not all the flights were probably to his island (as asserted). Since Bill Clinton is among those, but where Clinton traveled with Epstein is documented in magazine articles published years before Epstein first got into legal trouble in 2005.

Epstein had ties with many politicians, scientists, entertainment celebrities, royal family members, humanitarians, journalists, and other business magnates like Trump. But like Clinton, much of those interactions were probably funding and donation oriented (including using his aircraft), along with Epstein desiring to hobnob with his idols -- rather than involving wide-range illegal and underage sexual services to that vast array of notable individuals.

Still, the stigma of being associated with Epstein in any way at all would be bloated into the latter by the imagination of the average public spectator. And that's likely where the fear rests with these countless "persons of interest", even though most (including Trump) have been "outed" as POI previously (see link at very bottom).

(2002) Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery
https://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/

EXCERPTS: Epstein likes to tell people that he’s a loner, a man who’s never touched alcohol or drugs, and one whose nightlife is far from energetic. And yet if you talk to Donald Trump, a different Epstein emerges. “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” Trump booms from a speakerphone. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”

[...] here’s the thing about Epstein: As some collect butterflies, he collects beautiful minds. “I invest in people — be it politics or science. It’s what I do,” he has said to friends. And his latest prize addition is the former president. In his eyes, Clinton as a species represents the highest evolutionary form of the political animal...

[...] “Jeffrey is both a highly successful financier and a committed philanthropist with a keen sense of global markets and an in-depth knowledge of twenty-first-century science,” Clinton says through a spokesman. “I especially appreciated his insights and generosity during the recent trip to Africa to work on democratization, empowering the poor, citizen service, and combating HIV/AIDS.”

[...] What attracted Clinton to Epstein was quite simple: He had a plane (he has a couple, in fact — the Boeing 727, in which he took Clinton to Africa, and, for shorter jaunts, a black Gulfstream, a Cessna 421, and a helicopter to ferry him from his island to St. Thomas). Clinton had organized a weeklong tour of South Africa, Nigeria, Ghana, Rwanda, and Mozambique to do what Clinton does. So when the president’s advance man Doug Band pitched the idea to Epstein, he said sure. As an added bonus, Kevin Spacey, a close friend of Clinton’s, and actor Chris Tucker came along for the ride.

[...] Epstein has a particularly close relationship with Martin Nowak, an Austrian biology and mathematics professor ... After dinner, Epstein asked if Nowak wanted to meet up with his new friend President Clinton, and off they went to a nearby deli, where Clinton regaled the starstruck former Oxford professor with tales from his own Oxford days. “Jeffrey has the mind of a physicist. It’s like talking to a colleague in your field,” says Nowak. “Sometimes he applies what we talk about to his investments. Sometimes it’s for his own curiosity. He has changed my life. Because of his support, I feel I can do anything I want.”

[...] Epstein brings a trophy-hunter’s zeal to his collection of scientists and politicians. ... Like former Democratic Senate leader George Mitchell, for example. ... Says Mitchell: “He has supported some philanthropic projects of mine and organized a fund-raiser for me once. I would certainly call him a friend and a supporter.”

But it is his covey of scientists that inspires Epstein’s true rapture. Epstein spends $20 million a year on them — encouraging them to engage in whatever kind of cutting-edge research might attract their fancy. They are, of course, quite lavish in their praise in return. Gerald Edelman won the Nobel Prize for physiology and medicine in 1972 and now presides over the Neurosciences Institute in La Jolla. “Jeff is extraordinary in his ability to pick up on quantitative relations,” says Edelman. “He came to see us recently. He is concerned with this basic question: Is it true that the brain is not a computer? He is very quick.”

Then there is Stephen Kosslyn, a psychologist at Harvard [...] Danny Hillis, an MIT-educated computer scientist whose company, Thinking Machines, was at the forefront of the supercomputing world in the eighties [...] On the 727 these days, he [Epstein] has been reading a book by E. O. Wilson, the eminent scientist and originator of the field of sociobiology, called Consilience...
- - - - - - - - - - - -

Here, among the dozens of "persons of interest", only Prince Andrew and Bill Richardson seem to have received accusations:

Jeffrey Epstein list: Who is named in court filings?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67861498
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And now the TurnipOTUS declares his supporters to be gullible idiots (well, a stopped clock, as they say...) and Epstein's list a hoax.

NEW YORK (AP) — President Donald Trump is lashing out at his own supporters, accusing them of being duped by Democrats, as he tries to clamp down on criticism over his administration’s handling of much-hyped records in the Jeffrey Epstein sex trafficking investigation, which Trump now calls a “Hoax.”

“Their new SCAM is what we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein Hoax, and my PAST supporters have bought into this “bull——,” hook, line, and sinker,” Trump wrote Wednesday on his Truth Social site, using an expletive in his post. “They haven’t learned their lesson, and probably never will, even after being conned by the Lunatic Left for 8 long years.”

“Let these weaklings continue forward and do the Democrats work, don’t even think about talking of our incredible and unprecedented success, because I don’t want their support anymore! Thank you for your attention to this matter,” he went on.

The rhetoric marks a dramatic escalation for the Republican president, who has broken with some of his most loyal backers on issues in the past, but never with such fervor. Though Trump cannot legally run for another term, he will need strong support from a united party to pass his remaining legislative agenda in a narrowly-divided Congress and an energized base to turn out in next year’s midterm elections... (end AP clip)

Gosh, TOTUS insulting a sizeable chunk of the Republican base...no big deal, right? Their attention spans are so short, anyway...
 
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If only his party hadn't campaigned on releasing the files. If only he hadn't campaigned on how his administration would be transparent. If only he hadn't said in interviews that he would release the files. If only the MAGA base wasn't substantially made up of people who love a good conspiracy.

If he doesn't want to release the files, sure, that's his choice, and he'd have to answer to his base and others for that. BUT to do a 180 as he is doing, to now claim it is a hoax, written by the Democrats, that the files don't exist, etc, is just pure panic mode.

Hopefully this isn't the last we hear of the files. I hope that whatever is contained within is juicy enough to bring people down, whether they be GOP or Democrat, royalty or celebrity. There's a conspiracy theory one could go down about how so far only 2 people have been imprisoned for the detail, and whether going after others would risk exposing the entire "list", hence no action other than to cover it up. But, meh, we'll see, I guess/hope.

Addendum:
I have seen the argument that Trump is now going from containment to discredit, and that that explains these latest moves and the contradictory approach between now and previously. Something has happened, so the argument goes, that has led Trump to believe that he can no longer contain the contents of the files. Therefore he is doing what he can to discredit the information, either by claiming that it was all written by the Dems, but also by discrediting possible sources of information in the future. For example, the DOJ has just fired Maurene Comey (daughter of ex-FBI director James Comey) who was one of the prosecutors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Why? Maybe it's to be able to say that, should she ever reveal content of the files, that "well, she's just a disgruntled former employee." There has been no explanation for her firing from the DOJ after nearly a decade of service.
 
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This Is Only Possible in Law Enforcement

Podcaster Brian Allen↱ suggests, "We now know exactly who had custody of the Epstein prison footage and how 2 minutes and 53 seconds vanished before the world saw it," and, well that's just not accurate. Knowing who we're looking for is not necessarily the same as knowing who that is. As such↱:

The night Epstein died, only one camera in the SHU was even recording.

The rest?
Down for 11 days.
MCC's DVR crashed on July 29, and no one fixed it. Not IT. Not security. Not leadership ....​

Now, here's the tricky part↱:

So who had custody of the footage?

• MCC tech staff recorded it.
• FBI seized the drives on Aug 11.
• DOJ oversaw the investigation.
• And in May 2025, someone under the username "MJCOLE~1" opened the files in Adobe Premiere… and trimmed them.

By exactly 2 minutes and 53 seconds.​

The so-called missing minute is actually nearly three minutes↱: "Then DOJ called it 'raw.'"

Allen runs down the list↱:

So who's responsible?

• Lamine N'Diaye – Warden who failed to fix the DVR
• BOP Officers Noel & Thomas – Lied about cell checks
• "Company 1" – Security contractor who built the faulty system
• FBI CART team – Took over evidence
• DOJ technician "MJCOLE~1" – Edited the video before release

And finally…

• Pam Bondi, overseeing DOJ's public explanation, said it was just "a glitch."​

And that's about the state of the mess.

There is also this: Even if the great conspiracy theory resolves to correctional personnel just being that damn incompetent, this is still part of the law enforcement ass we kiss with platitudes and pretenses of patriotism. Even if "MJCOLE~1" just processed video and didn't tamper with it, the Department of Justice could not manage to get this footage to the public without wrecking it. This, too, is part of the law enforcement ass we kiss.

And the thing is, sure, ACAB isn't actually universal; somewhere, there really must be an actual good cop, or else we're doomed. But maybe it's time our default narrative presumed ACAB instead of presuming to patriotically kiss law enforcement ass. The truth is closer to ACAB than the ass we kiss.
____________________

Notes:

@allenanalysis. "BREAKING: We now know exactly who had custody of the Epstein prison footage and how 2 minutes and 53 seconds vanished before the world saw it. The cover-up has timestamps. Let’s trace the chain." (thread) X. 15 July 2025. X.com. 17 July 2025. status/1945244670553960803


 
Tiassa said:
There is also this: Even if the great conspiracy theory resolves to correctional personnel just being that damn incompetent, this is still part of the law enforcement ass we kiss with platitudes and pretenses of patriotism.
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Who is this "we"' you speak of, Kemo Sabe?

There is a flavor of Rosemary (Woods) in those missing three minutes.
 
Sarkus said:
I have seen the argument that Trump is now going from containment to discredit, and that that explains these latest moves and the contradictory approach between now and previously.
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Indeed, he has now attempted to use three contradictory explanations - so even his own explanations cannot be true.

I am hopeful that questions about this will consume the rest of his presidency, and leave him less time to harm America.
 
billvon said:
Indeed, he has now attempted to use three contradictory explanations - so even his own explanations cannot be true.

I am hopeful that questions about this will consume the rest of his presidency, and leave him less time to harm America.
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Impossible to predict the long-term impact, of course, but this doesn't seem to be going away as "smoothly" as expected. Now Trump is insulting his supporters and saying he no longer wants their support.

This kind of crap seems to be the one thing he is actually competent at, and yet he's botching it at every step.
 
Well Trump, name must be in these files or he wouldn’t be devoting so much time to the subject.
 
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exchemist said:
Well Trump, name must be in these files or he wouldn’t be devoting so much time to the subject.
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A fairly safe bet.

It will be interesting to see if he pivots to something along the lines of "they all told me they were 18" if it looks like the list will leak.
 
TheVat said:
[...] Gosh, TOTUS insulting a sizeable chunk of the Republican base...no big deal, right? Their attention spans are so short, anyway...
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Yeah, short. But "The Catcher in the Rye" youth and their generations-spanning "phony" cynicism about over-age-30 adult society is probably un-rescuable. That segment of the Epstein conspiracy crowd Trump may never win back (depending on how Joe Rogan swings).

But with respect to the older bunch, Trump will try to straddle both sides of the fence somehow. After his first presidency, Trump had a contrarian relationship with the anti-vaxx crowd. He won them back -- whether that was via promising RFK Jr. a spot in his administration or not.

Of course, it's possible that he could finally go over the edge with the conspiracy mob just like Musk did with him on the BBB, and stubbornly refuse to back down or craft a repair strategy. Old age is surely going to cut into Trump's opportunistic and exploitive instincts eventually.

  • Trump reveals he got COVID-19 booster shot; crowd boos him
    https://apnews.com/article/coronavi...irus-vaccine-74abcd4e6833835f5df445fe2142e22b

    EXCERPTS: “Did you get the booster?” he asked the former president. “Yes,” Trump responded. “I got it, too,” O’Reilly said, eliciting more hectoring.

    “Don’t! Don’t! Don’t! Don’t! Don’t!” Trump told the crowd, waving off their reaction with his hand.

    While Trump has expressed opposition to vaccine mandates, he has long taken credit for the vaccines developed on his watch.

    At the same time, he has refused to urge his supporters to take them, even though Republicans remain far less likely than Democrats to be protected.

    [...] Before the booing, Trump on Sunday told the audience that they should “take credit” for the success of the vaccines developed while he was in office.

    “Look, we did something that was historic. We saved tens of millions of lives worldwide. We together, all of us — not me, we — we got a vaccine done, three vaccines done, and tremendous therapeutics” Trump said. “This was going to ravage the country far beyond what it is right now. Take credit for it. Take credit for it.... Don’t let them take it away. Don’t take it away from ourselves.”
 
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exchemist said:
Well Trump, name must be in these files or he wouldn’t be devoting so much time to the subject.
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I've long maintained that Trump supporters overwhelmingly do not care about the nearly three dozen credible rape and sexual assault allegations against him. Data shows that they do certainly know about them; my contention is that many also believe the allegations and simply do not care. Likewise, they couldn't care less about the financial and the intelligence aspects of the Epstein saga. But, I think they do care about child rape aspect--especially when it's a bunch of white girls--and they are, perhaps, more than slightly bothered by this.
 
parmalee said:
I've long maintained that Trump supporters overwhelmingly do not care about the nearly three dozen credible rape and sexual assault allegations against him. Data shows that they do certainly know about them; my contention is that many also believe the allegations and simply do not care. Likewise, they couldn't care less about the financial and the intelligence aspects of the Epstein saga. But, I think they do care about child rape aspect--especially when it's a bunch of white girls--and they are, perhaps, more than slightly bothered by this.
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Oh yeah, the paedo business is at the heart of the absurd QAnon conspiracy theory, isn’t it? So “Trump is a paedo” would seem a distinctly, er, unfortunate realisation to dawn on them :biggrin:.
 
exchemist said:
Well Trump, name must be in these files or he wouldn’t be devoting so much time to the subject.
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Trump and Clinton were included as "persons of interest" in the last release of court documents, along with presumably a legion of other politicians, scientists, entertainment celebrities, royal family members, humanitarians, journalists, and business people who flew with or interacted with Epstein in the deep past. (Jeffrey Epstein list: Who is named in court filings?)

As much as one can make out, Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted for procuring and trafficking girls to Epstein himself. If he or she ever "loaned" them to anyone else, only Prince Andrew (and possibly Bill Richardson) got close to qualifying. But any potential there fell apart.

While Epstein wired up his places with video cameras and claimed he had dirt on people in high places (their sexual proclivities and recreational drug habits), those threats just fizzled into something equivalent to David Grusch's talk about Black Ops projects reverse engineering crashed flying saucers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Epstein#Video_recordings
https://web.archive.org/web/2019082...08/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-interview.html
https://web.archive.org/web/2016052.../jeffrey-epstein-decade-scandal-prince-andrew

More released court papers would just mention the same bevy of "persons of interest" who had the remotest association with Epstein for a variety of conventional reasons (travel, funding, etc). All apparently cleared, and matters slash information which the conspiracists clamoring now apparently just ignored when such was released before.

Again, the "my career" fears of those countless, former POIs seem to rest purely in how the masses will conflate any type of association with Epstein with having something to do with the "myth" (conspiracy) of conveying thousands of powerful people to his island for underage sex romps. Or a belief that if files are released a second time around, that the public might actually pay attention to those who were the POIs, rather than simply ignore that data once more.
_
 
C C said:
Trump and Clinton were included as "persons of interest" in the last release of court documents . . .
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Which is the strange part.

If they release this final set of court documents, and Trump is mentioned, he could do exactly what he did last time he was mentioned - "I just used his plane" "I wasn't that close to him" "those documents prove nothing" and it would likely blow over.

But this whole "there's a list but it's wrong" "there's a list but I'm not on it" "there's no list" "stop talking about this NOW - that's an order!" is making things much worse for him.
 
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