The Devil and Jesus.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by davewhite04, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    The Jews don't seem to mention him much but the christians perception of the devil is wacko.

    He goes from doing his job throughout the old testament to turning into a dragon and burning in hell forever.

    Does this make sense to anyone?
     
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  3. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Hmm, Idk. In Genesis, he seems to be described as evil incarnate, which started the ball rolling and created the ''fall'' of mankind by Adam and Eve succumbing to their fleshly desires. Hell doesn't make sense to me, because the Bible seems to illustrate that the devil roams the earth, and doesn't ''guard'' hell.

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  5. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Not exactly. He's just a serpent; a tempter, but he's also the voice of reason. Eve said, I can't eat that fruit because God will kill me. The Serpent said, no, he won't kill you; he just doesn't want to you know right from wrong.
    And that was true: God didn't kill them (had too much invested, maybe?) but barred them from the garden, so they couldn't get at the fruit of eternal life.
    This is about the invention of science, which gives mankind power like onto the gods.
    And the serpent only gets cursed afterwards; doesn't turn into the prince of Darkness for quite a long time yet.
    On the contrary; whereas before, they had been innocently carnal, like the beasts of the field, now they hide their genitals.

    Hell was necessary to the Christian rulership, because they had persuaded the serfs to accept their condition in hope of eternal reward in Heaven. Only, the conditions were so miserable that the serfs were inclined to escape to Heaven before all the work could be beaten out of them. So there had to be a deterrent: make non-compliance extra horrible and then make suicide an unforgivable sin. We're still paying for that tradition with archaic euthanasia laws.
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Well, no. Of course not.
     
  8. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Satan is an employee, well friend of God according to the tanakh/old testament. Was Jesus jealous of the power that satan possesses? Why so serious christians?
     
  9. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I don't get the sense that he was 'jealous,' but rather he wanted to possibly protect and warn his followers of Satan.

    I've become a little confused though, after watching the Lucifer series. lol
     
  10. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    One of the two top generals, way I heard it.
    Nobody asked Jesus what he thought or felt about anything. He was assigned his mission, briefed, issued a halo and dispatched to some little barn a God-selected backwater on the Mediterranean.
    Satan, oth, on hearing that the vice presidency was being held for the boss' son, was pissed beyond measure.

    Well, if the tightrope between eternal happiness and eternal suffering is a frivolous issue, name one that merits solemnity.
     
  11. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, I've grabbed tidbits of info on various devil cults, what makes you think they are doing satan's will?

    Like Jesus, the bulk of his followers do not reflect accurately on the character of Jesus in the gospels(I exclude Matthew, genealogy, maybe talk more on it).
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Well, most of the Bible doesn't really make sense; the devil is no exception. (Also it should be noted that descriptions of the devil in the Bible are sparse and contradictory; the modern conception of the devil was pretty much made up later.)
     
  13. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Satanism, Luciferianism, etc isn't really about ''following'' or worshiping Satan, as I've learned. It's about viewing Satan as the great redeemer...liberator...being of enlightenment. Satan basically reveals who we really are, and leads us to enlightenment, is the idea behind those paths. (not cults) Although, I guess they could be cultish.

    Jesus knew that what he asked of them, wasn't easy to follow.
     
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  14. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Defining the Devil is tricky business. Had a guy at work who would sometimes chant, "The devil in all of us. The devil in all of us. The devil in all of us."

    It's kind of hard to argue with that sentiment.
     
  15. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    It is rather a "tricky business" to truly and accurately define "the Devil" as anything other than a non-existent/fictional character, is it not?
     
  16. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    The question would be: Is the Devil a foreign entity that can enter us and influence us? Or was the Devil a part of us all along?
     
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  17. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Fictional characters represent something. The standard prime-time detective on television represents something in his society, in his culture, in his audience - and that's a trivial, disposable character. The devils of human imagination represent something more significant in the cultures that invented them. They're not a single character, or a single concept, but collectively, they represent an aspect of human nature of which we have been aware - and wary - since the beginning of civilization.
    It's more complicated than either. The personal devils in each of us are small, various and of very little power. When a group of Satanists or other demon cultists perform their rituals, the individual devils coalesce, forming an entity of far more sinister aspect, exerting a far greater influence on each member of the coven than the isolated tempter on each individual's left shoulder.
    When a nation pools all of its personal devils in a shared icon, its power and evil are multiplied, rather than added.
     
  18. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Good point.
     
  19. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Acquired through life. He's only a threat if you take him seriously.
     
  20. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    I think that's clearly false. See Jeeves' reply to me: "When a nation pools all of its personal devils in a shared icon, its power and evil are multiplied, rather than added." A Hitler or a Trump provides a focus for the individual evils. That should definitely be taken seriously.
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    He was in collusion with a foreign entity, but part of us was evil all along.
     
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  22. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    As I said, defining the devil is tricky business. Hitler helped pull Germany out of financial crisis, but later turned to world war and genocide. If you see Trump marching us in the same direction, please explain how.
     
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Demonization of immigrants and minorities, attacking the free press, excessive nationalism, support of white supremecy, concentration camps, abuse of power, undermining the rule of law, encouraging political violence and war crimes... Is that enough or should I go on?
     

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