It takes at least 10 years and exhaustive research before drugs are allowed on the open market. After all of this the drugs will come out and become a great benefit to millions. Then comes "the study"; the lone study that makes a correlation between the drug and some kind of malady. The media immediately takes this lone study as gospel and wildly publicizes it. People who had once benefited from the drug now think that all of their health problems are because of this drug. People start coming out of the woodwork with sanctimonious faces telling everyone their sob stories about how they have been victimized. Then the lawyers get involved. They sue the stuffing out of the drug companies and ignorant but well meaning juries go along with it. Years later a new study comes out and disproves the first study but the damage is done. The list is long with products such as breast implants, Fen Phen, and others. We wonder why drugs are so expensive in the United States. It is a wonder that any drug company can ever stay in business. If things don't change there may very well not be any in the future. Yes we must be very vigilant in not allowing bad drugs on the market but it seems that junk science and mass hysteria are the rule of the day, and keeping so many promising drugs from ever coming to the market.
The Dangers Of Junk Science
- Thread starter Brutus1964
- Start date
ohhhh dear Brutus...WHAt ARe yer like kid..
yes. the 'poor' pharmaceutical industry (can see the sun shining out of their fat arse as i ttype)....how innocent thy all are, and those nasty nasty people sueing them and stuff. tut tut. the outer darkeness for them i am sure.
what's your universe like btw?
yes. the 'poor' pharmaceutical industry (can see the sun shining out of their fat arse as i ttype)....how innocent thy all are, and those nasty nasty people sueing them and stuff. tut tut. the outer darkeness for them i am sure.
what's your universe like btw?
ohhhh dear Brutus...WHAt ARe yer like kid..
yes. the 'poor' pharmaceutical industry (can see the sun shining out of their fat arse as i ttype)....how innocent thy all are, and those nasty nasty people sueing them and stuff. tut tut. the outer darkeness for them i am sure.
what's your universe like btw?
yes. the 'poor' pharmaceutical industry (can see the sun shining out of their fat arse as i ttype)....how innocent thy all are, and those nasty nasty people sueing them and stuff. tut tut. the outer darkeness for them i am sure.
what's your universe like btw?
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
I had resolved not to respond anymore to Duendy's agenda rich stew of 'down with the patriarchy'; 'the medicos and the media are in league to lie about mental illness';'if you aren't with me you are against me';('I could write and spell properly if I wanted to, but I have a difficult system').
However, I have a personal interest in the drugs industry. For about $25 a month (UK NHS) the drugs I take keep me alive and passably healthy. For all the faults they may have (and there are many) Duendy's stereotypical rant against the drug companies does their beneficiaries no favours and makes Duendy look like a bitter, blinkered bigot.
(The alliteration was just for you Duendy, so you can take another hit at my language.)
Brutus, regretably you make a valid point.
However, I have a personal interest in the drugs industry. For about $25 a month (UK NHS) the drugs I take keep me alive and passably healthy. For all the faults they may have (and there are many) Duendy's stereotypical rant against the drug companies does their beneficiaries no favours and makes Duendy look like a bitter, blinkered bigot.
(The alliteration was just for you Duendy, so you can take another hit at my language.)
Brutus, regretably you make a valid point.
He's on your side of the pond, I'll buy you a pint if you go over and smack him on the head, Ophi 
But on Junk Science, I have to agree that it is problematic for society. I'm not convinced that the issue with the drug industry is a simple one, however, since there's definately a certain amount of culpability with the FDA. After all, the drug industry is comprised of private corporations and these are quite predictable in how they'll operate. By nature, they wan't to make money and will maintain the best profit margin they can, skirting whatever limitations they can (since these will, invariably, cut into their profits). In order to keep them under control, the FDA must operate with a heavier hand. If price controls, advertising controls, objective research controls, etc. are needed, it shouldn't be the responsibility of the drug companies to set these - it should be the government.
Still, there's a lot more "Junk Science" out there beyond the drug companies that should concern us, particularly with regard to the Bush Administration's influence on the scientific process. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. wrote a piece in The Nation (Feb. 2004) in which he stated: "[T]he Bush White House is purging, censoring and blacklisting scientists and engineers whose work threatens the profits of the Administration's corporate paymasters or challenges the ideological underpinnings of their radical anti-environmental agenda."
Then there's the Junk-Junk Science! There's also a lot of criticism of various scientific thought that has merit and supporting research. An example that I noted recently was Fox News' so-called "junk science" response to the Harvard University study (Schulze, 2004) that noted a significant risk of Type II Diabetes among young and middle-aged women who consume soft drinks. At least I think this was the study Milloy was referring to. A
t any rate, it was picked up by many news outlets and is heralded as gospel on the junk-junk science site that calles itself Junk Science. They do have some interesting information and its good to see a balance to the environmental naysayers, but overall JunkScience.com is an obvious political arm of right-wing conservatism. Objective thought isn't their goal, furthering the cause of neo-conservatism is. That's one thing they have in common with Fux News.
References:
Kennedy, Robert F., Jr. (Feb. 2004). The Junk Science of George W. Bush.The Nation, found at: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040308&s=kennedy
Milloy, Steven (Jan. 27, 2005) Scientists Stonewall on Spurious Soda ScareFox News, found at: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145644,00.html
Schulze, Matthias B., et al (2004). Sugar-Sweetened Beverages, Weight Gain, and Incidence of Type 2 Diabetes in Young and Middle-Aged Women JAMA 292:927-934.
But on Junk Science, I have to agree that it is problematic for society. I'm not convinced that the issue with the drug industry is a simple one, however, since there's definately a certain amount of culpability with the FDA. After all, the drug industry is comprised of private corporations and these are quite predictable in how they'll operate. By nature, they wan't to make money and will maintain the best profit margin they can, skirting whatever limitations they can (since these will, invariably, cut into their profits). In order to keep them under control, the FDA must operate with a heavier hand. If price controls, advertising controls, objective research controls, etc. are needed, it shouldn't be the responsibility of the drug companies to set these - it should be the government.
Still, there's a lot more "Junk Science" out there beyond the drug companies that should concern us, particularly with regard to the Bush Administration's influence on the scientific process. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. wrote a piece in The Nation (Feb. 2004) in which he stated: "[T]he Bush White House is purging, censoring and blacklisting scientists and engineers whose work threatens the profits of the Administration's corporate paymasters or challenges the ideological underpinnings of their radical anti-environmental agenda."
Then there's the Junk-Junk Science! There's also a lot of criticism of various scientific thought that has merit and supporting research. An example that I noted recently was Fox News' so-called "junk science" response to the Harvard University study (Schulze, 2004) that noted a significant risk of Type II Diabetes among young and middle-aged women who consume soft drinks. At least I think this was the study Milloy was referring to. A
t any rate, it was picked up by many news outlets and is heralded as gospel on the junk-junk science site that calles itself Junk Science. They do have some interesting information and its good to see a balance to the environmental naysayers, but overall JunkScience.com is an obvious political arm of right-wing conservatism. Objective thought isn't their goal, furthering the cause of neo-conservatism is. That's one thing they have in common with Fux News.
References:
Kennedy, Robert F., Jr. (Feb. 2004). The Junk Science of George W. Bush.The Nation, found at: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040308&s=kennedy
Milloy, Steven (Jan. 27, 2005) Scientists Stonewall on Spurious Soda ScareFox News, found at: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145644,00.html
Schulze, Matthias B., et al (2004). Sugar-Sweetened Beverages, Weight Gain, and Incidence of Type 2 Diabetes in Young and Middle-Aged Women JAMA 292:927-934.
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spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
But, as long as there are vast amounts of money to be made in drugs, the drug companies will sacrifice the common good for the sake of profit, like the tobacco industry has done, and the auto industry has done countless times. I would not trust the drug companies own research which could be biased. An independant study, like with Vioxx, can reveal dangers that the would otherwise be covered up.
Brutus, you should consider that you too are a victim of mass hysteria against lawyers.
Brutus, you should consider that you too are a victim of mass hysteria against lawyers.
There is no doubt that junk science is a waste of human resources and time, and its affects on the human population consuming these harmful drugs are awful, yet up till this post I have yet to hear a solution for this continuing problem, any ideas anyone??
In addition, regarding to the extremly high prices of drugs in the american market, I have to admit that I agree totally with the previous posts.
My grand parents take such like drugs and after hearing the price that they have to pay I was disgusted . It is quite ovious that the current drug companies give no regard to the medical requirements of the average population, take from the rich and disregard the poor.
In addition, regarding to the extremly high prices of drugs in the american market, I have to admit that I agree totally with the previous posts.
My grand parents take such like drugs and after hearing the price that they have to pay I was disgusted
. It is quite ovious that the current drug companies give no regard to the medical requirements of the average population, take from the rich and disregard the poor.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
We could start with appointing doctors, not representatives of the drug industry, to regulatory positions in the FDA.
We could allow the government to negotiate lower prices as a group with the drug industry.
We could have universal health care funded by taxes.
We could allow the government to negotiate lower prices as a group with the drug industry.
We could have universal health care funded by taxes.
Tali said:There is no doubt that junk science is a waste of human resources and time, and its affects on the human population consuming these harmful drugs are awful, yet up till this post I have yet to hear a solution for this continuing problem, any ideas anyone??
********
d) love and information. i am not an extremist. i can see that pharmaceuticals allopathic drugs can help in certain ways. But it is all symptom based. and this apporach refelcts the overall mechansitc philosophy.
so we have a situation where the rich can pick and choose and mix complimentary healing and orthodox, whilst the people with not much money CANT. and they are the ones living in the most polluted plkaces, eating the crap food cause its the cheapest, who dont get the right info from the culture about how to maintain health.
listen..Oph and Skin...you are NAIVE ..seriously though you think you aint. big phaRMA is a busyness? and you know the language of business dont you? expand right.....get it? they DEMAND illness for their profit. think on that too when you think about 'mental health' too!
In addition, regarding to the extremly high prices of drugs in the american market, I have to admit that I agree totally with the previous posts.
My grand parents take such like drugs and after hearing the price that they have to pay I was disgusted
EXACTLY! the poor always get it from the patriarchy. always have always will. TILL everyone that can speaks out against what is going on. which is what i intend to do every chance i get
like everything. religion, philosophy, this. ypu have to go explore the roots of it. how this alamagamation of medicines and pharma came about. How male controlled MEDICINE came about...once we start looking at that is a beginning
I've got your patriarchy hanging.
Sorry.. that was uncalled for, but I've been wanting to say it forever.
Sorry.. that was uncalled for, but I've been wanting to say it forever.
SkinWalker said:I've got your patriarchy hanging.
Sorry.. that was uncalled for, but I've been wanting to say it forever.
d__emmm sorry, i fial to see an insult. whats it mean?
also. stop focussin on the WORD 'patriarchy' and do a bit of exploring about its history. that way you wont keep on being silly
When the FDA approves a drug for distribution the pharmaceutical companies should not be subject to all liabilities. The Drug companies did everything possible to prove there product is safe and the US government gave their stamp of approval. Since the government is involved why should the drug companies carry all the liability for the drugs? The answer is they should not. If a drug does harm the companies should make that person whole again. They should be liable for medical costs, lost wages, and all damages to the person, but there should be no punitive damages at all. The drug companies already did what they were supposed to do by going through the approval process with the FDA. They should not be held completely responsible.
That would be going beyond a discussion about "junk science" and into one about legislation and tort.
Big pharma pays a fortune to the Bush administration ...to keep them in power. In July -from pressure from them and lots of cash--Bush passed a Bill to test EVERY woman, child, and man for 'mental illness'..!Brutus1964 said:
read all about it at www.mindfreedom.org
we are talking the oppressors, big pharma and State as an amalgamation of power, which includes, social control of course.
Duendy
All companies pay to lobby the government. It isn't right but don't blame the private sector for what the government itself demands from them. The government, whether in the hands of Democrats or Republicans demands tributes. Bureaucracies are full of career people who work regardless of what party is in power. They have set up kingdoms for themselves and work very diligently to maintain it.
Don't believe everything you read in leftist websites. The website you gave me www.mindfreedom.org is not a credible source. The claims it made was not backed up by a single credible source. Leftist Websites and pressure groups are the worst purveyors of junk science. They want science to match their own political and social beliefs. The left holds the purse strings to a lot of grants from private foundations and government agencies. Scientists know who they must please in order to get their funding.
The problem is not with the pharmaceutical companies. They should be lauded and honored for the good work they do. They save millions of lives and give so many people a greater quality of life. If there is any blame for pharmaceutical debacles it should go to the FDA. It is a giant government bureaucracy, and with all big government bureaus it too is subject to corruption. It needs to be overhauled and reformed. It is rife with conflicts of interests.
All companies pay to lobby the government. It isn't right but don't blame the private sector for what the government itself demands from them. The government, whether in the hands of Democrats or Republicans demands tributes. Bureaucracies are full of career people who work regardless of what party is in power. They have set up kingdoms for themselves and work very diligently to maintain it.
Don't believe everything you read in leftist websites. The website you gave me www.mindfreedom.org is not a credible source. The claims it made was not backed up by a single credible source. Leftist Websites and pressure groups are the worst purveyors of junk science. They want science to match their own political and social beliefs. The left holds the purse strings to a lot of grants from private foundations and government agencies. Scientists know who they must please in order to get their funding.
The problem is not with the pharmaceutical companies. They should be lauded and honored for the good work they do. They save millions of lives and give so many people a greater quality of life. If there is any blame for pharmaceutical debacles it should go to the FDA. It is a giant government bureaucracy, and with all big government bureaus it too is subject to corruption. It needs to be overhauled and reformed. It is rife with conflicts of interests.
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oh puleeeze Brutus. you--you who believe in what you do are trying to lecture me what are 'credible sources' of information?
you get funnier by the minute fellah. i honestly dont mean you harm. therer is something innocent and ever so naive about your manner and beliefs, but ...really man. i woudn't know were to begin with you. dont know if i have the effort In me to even try
and as for mindfreedom. It is incredibly credible. its users and support are for the VICTIMS of the corruption you seem to so deaely love Science and State. they had a hunger strike while back where 'psychiatric survivors' took on the might of the APA. it makes for extremely interesting reading what happened
my experience of you, and people like you Bru, is this: that fundamentalist nonesense goes hand in hand with 'born again' imperialist fascism
you get funnier by the minute fellah. i honestly dont mean you harm. therer is something innocent and ever so naive about your manner and beliefs, but ...really man. i woudn't know were to begin with you. dont know if i have the effort In me to even try
and as for mindfreedom. It is incredibly credible. its users and support are for the VICTIMS of the corruption you seem to so deaely love Science and State. they had a hunger strike while back where 'psychiatric survivors' took on the might of the APA. it makes for extremely interesting reading what happened
my experience of you, and people like you Bru, is this: that fundamentalist nonesense goes hand in hand with 'born again' imperialist fascism
on second thoughts. 'innocent and naive"? no. although i dont mean harm on you. you are FARRR from innocent. you are a deliberately ignore-ant person whose callous indifference to whats going on actuall FUELS it. the fact you back it up, and add your ridiculous religious beliefs to it, also addes evil fuel to the fire
you and yours are enimies to all the victims (not just now but the generations of them) of the vile system you spend your sorry time supporting
you and yours are enimies to all the victims (not just now but the generations of them) of the vile system you spend your sorry time supporting
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
Duendy, re your last post. (And you had the nerve to accuse me of being patronising on another thread. Wow!)
Could you try to restate your argument without resorting to stereotypical rants against Science and State, and accusations that anyone who even remotely disagrees with you is a 'born again' imperial fascist, whatever that is. Please supply some links or substantiating references of substance to justify a single one of the points you have raised, relevant to this thread.
Could you try to restate your argument without resorting to stereotypical rants against Science and State, and accusations that anyone who even remotely disagrees with you is a 'born again' imperial fascist, whatever that is. Please supply some links or substantiating references of substance to justify a single one of the points you have raised, relevant to this thread.