The "axe" of Rev20:4
- Thread starter beil
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I should have been more precise, The revelation, perhaps written ad 100, mentions the martyrs, Do you believe those modern day religious anti- Hitler victims fit into the category mentioned in Rev.20? It seems to mention agitating against bad for good.
here is the text: "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
I assumed it was by a sharp, heavy instrument.
I assumed it was by a sharp, heavy instrument.
beil:
It's easy to read all kinds of stuff into the Book of Revelation. It's a bit like the prophecies of Nostradamus in that respect. Just throw out a bunch of "visions" of this and that, and let the readers have at it, reading in whatever suits their purposes at the time. Biblical numerology (e.g. the "bible code") is also similar. All these things involve trying to read what you want to be there into an text that, on the face of it, either doesn't make a lot of sense or which is long enough that selective extracts can be made to "say" just about anything.
It's easy to read all kinds of stuff into the Book of Revelation. It's a bit like the prophecies of Nostradamus in that respect. Just throw out a bunch of "visions" of this and that, and let the readers have at it, reading in whatever suits their purposes at the time. Biblical numerology (e.g. the "bible code") is also similar. All these things involve trying to read what you want to be there into an text that, on the face of it, either doesn't make a lot of sense or which is long enough that selective extracts can be made to "say" just about anything.
yes of course, but the post asked a specific question to discerning members about the executions done by the Hitler regime, on these religious people, in contrast with the beheadings in the tower of London or the guillotinings in Paris.
There are reward to be martyr, hopefully even for those that died for science sake.
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Consensus is that Revelation is a social commentry on the Roman occupation and the Emperor Nero.
Jesus comes back, destroys the enemy and establishes his new kingdom on earth.
Everyone is judged including the dead. The righteous live ever and the wicked destroyed.
This was all going to happen in the first century according to Jesus.
the text mentions the martyrs "ruling for a 1000 years". surely you do not believe the millenium is compressed 10: 1?
Like the Nazi rule: "The shortest 1000 years ever= 1933-1945.= 12" Galgenhumor, the "rope' another of their favored killing methods.
Perhaps the text was written to harden the resolve of all righteous dissenter. imho
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
So what do you reckon to,
"This generation will not taste death..."
That generation all died before the Apocalypse of John was written most likely.
If a few lived till then they did not live much longer.
Jesus said that in the late 20s early 30s?
Revelation was written around 95? That generation would have been dead by the second century and the kingdom never came.
exactly,- so, the events predicted in the apo- calypse most apply to future generations, and imho,
The martyrs of this century should be entitled to those rewards,
better to have rulers that tried to be meek, than the Hitlers, Stalins and their present day imitators.
Jesus: "The meek will inherit the Earth" own it.
The martyrs of this century should be entitled to those rewards,
better to have rulers that tried to be meek, than the Hitlers, Stalins and their present day imitators.
Jesus: "The meek will inherit the Earth" own it.
NS-Aufarbeitung im Tiergarten: Denkmal erinnert ab Juni an Verfolgung der Zeugen Jehovas
Die Nationalsozialisten drangsalierten die Angehörigen der christlichen Glaubensgemeinschaft und inhaftierten Tausende. Die Opfergruppe erhält in Berlin einen Ort für Trauer und Gedenken.
www.tagesspiegel.de
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
That is not what scholarship has to say about it. All the symbolism is to do with Rome, the Roman empire and the emperor.
Apocalyptic writing is quite well understood by scholars.
what do scholars say about the moral lessons taught by the events that, according to you, all happened during the reign of Rome? Are they null and void with the rise of the Macedonians?
Would it not have been great if all believers in the immortal soul had heeded the lesson of Rev 20:4' and sacrifice themselves for peace rather than for their imperial national interests? The slaughter 100 Millions could have been avoided.
The irony being, as I understand it, that --- the 'Bibelforschers'* did not even believe in the immortal soul.
* see post #11 above, about the 10 thousands JW victims of the Nazi regime.
Would it not have been great if all believers in the immortal soul had heeded the lesson of Rev 20:4' and sacrifice themselves for peace rather than for their imperial national interests? The slaughter 100 Millions could have been avoided.
The irony being, as I understand it, that --- the 'Bibelforschers'* did not even believe in the immortal soul.
* see post #11 above, about the 10 thousands JW victims of the Nazi regime.
Wizard of Whatever
Registered Senior Member
It's all symbolism like one may have in a dream or vision.
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Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Jesus thought the new Kingdom was right around the corner, he states this throughout Mark, the first Gospel. Paul thought the same, the followers of Jesus also.
Why do you think there were no books written about the life of Jesus by his followers? Ignoring the fact the were illiterate for the moment, there was no point documenting the deeds of Jesus if the world as they knew it was coming to an end.
Indeed! --It is thought, that without dreams our brains, minds would cease to function well, , see sleep deprivation.
'John' makes no bones about recording a vision, symbols (signs).In Apo 20:4 he introduces another instrument for Martyr killings, after the "cross" (Jesus), the stoning (Stephen) and now the beheading the axe, perhaps alluding to the Faces ax and boughs of later Faschist in fame
right! Acts 1:7 has them still asking for the kingdom right there and then even before the ascenntion. . The last verses in the whole bible spanning, as claimed ~14 billion years of history --plead :
"come". It is the dream of all generations to be the one that sees the end, the new beginning.
The always approaching end would spur new writings, it did in the first century (the New testament) and now, latter Day Saints, Seven Days Adventist, and
In the OP, most of all, the JWs that gave their lives in Nazi times.