Syrian War: Israel Returns Fire

[786]

So like why isn't Israel following UN Resolutions but if Iran doesn't we can expect 'International community demands.... bs'.

Israel has been constantly attacking Palestine simply by occupation. This isn't 'self defense', this is called "when military occupies your home and your children throw a stone at them because the military isn't allowing any food in" defense.

 

[Balerion]

bull fucking shit. you can't accuse me of doing this while your not and defending an orginzation that has a reputation of using violance against unarmed protestors.

Of course I can. I just did. You can read, can't you?

 

[RealityCheck]

So like why isn't Israel following UN Resolutions but if Iran doesn't we can expect 'International community demands.... bs'.

Israel has been constantly attacking Palestine simply by occupation. This isn't 'self defense', this is called "when military occupies your home and your children throw a stone at them because the military isn't allowing any food in" defense.

Have you bothered to ask yourself where and how the Hamas Rockets end up in Gaza? If you answer that logically, you will have the answer to your own confusion. If Hamas can afford to import/make rockets SPECIFICALLY to attack CIVILIANS indiscriminately, then such terrorist regimes are legitimate target for sannctions by Israel, which is the most effective entity there to enforce sanctions (blockade) to stop them getting even more dangerous indiscriminate weapons.

Ask yourself also, why do you think it's OK for Iran to supply and support arms/personnel to Syria while Syrian Regime attacks EN MASSE whole towns and cities of CIVILIANS?

You are patently one-eyed and misinformed. The blockade of a regime which nevertheless smuggles Rockets into its territory to fire at civilians indiscriminately is ipso facto asking for blockade and retaliation for its espoused aims at ATTACKING and DESTROYING. How is that a 'peace' stance?

It's a recipe for continued retaliation by Israel because of blatant militant terroristic regime whose is supported by Iran who also supports the Syrian Regime who also attack civilians on purpose. Get real. Unless Hamas disavows all armed aggression policies and stops supporting militant rocket fire at Israel, no possibility exists except continued violence.

For which violence, I say: "A pox on both your houses!" Ie, on Iran, Syria Hamas axis; and Israel too! You all are not worth all the trouble. The best thing that could be done for the middle east is for the UN to empty the lands and give it over to nature; and relocate the whole lot of you in the countries that support one or the other of you. It would serve you all right for this craziness of millennia. None of you have a humane bone in your body; only old hatred s born of religious/tribal origins. The poison would be removed if the poisonous were removed and separated once and for all in far flung supporting countries who would have you!


The UN should move in forthwith and do its job, one way or another to stop the madness once and for all; even if it has to relocate every single crazy person from that evil place masquerading as 'the holy land'. What a crock. Nothing 'holy' about that place. It's one big nest of historical/religious hypocrisy and craziness which the modern world can no longer afford to humour and pussyfoot around. The UN should be decisive and robust to BOTH 'sides' in the 'craziness that never ends' called middle east affairs.

If necessary, Iranians, Syrian and other Hamas etc regimes/supporters can go to Russia (who supplies Iran in order to supply Syria/Hamas etc).

And Israelis etc can go to America (who supports them).

And the middle east lands could finally see nature and peace reign after millennia of madness and blood hatred and religious hypocrisy. Christ/Mohamed would be appalled to see what has become of the lands and its people. Shame on you all, on both sides.

A pox on both your houses! That's my opinion if I'm really honest!

 

[786]

Have you bothered to ask yourself where and how the Hamas Rockets end up in Gaza? If you answer that logically, you will have the answer to your own confusion. If Hamas can afford to import/make rockets SPECIFICALLY to attack CIVILIANS indiscriminately, then such terrorist regimes are legitimate target for sannctions by Israel, which is the most effective entity there to enforce sanctions (blockade) to stop them getting even more dangerous indiscriminate weapons.

And have you asked the question why are they stooping so low to even attack Civilians to begin with? When you answer that question, you will get the answer yourself.

Ask yourself also, why do you think it's OK for Iran to supply and support arms/personnel to Syria while Syrian Regime attacks EN MASSE whole towns and cities of CIVILIANS?

Like how US helped Saddam kill his own people? Mind you how US supported so many other ruthless dictators?

You are patently one-eyed and misinformed. The blockade of a regime which nevertheless smuggles Rockets into its territory to fire at civilians indiscriminately is ipso facto asking for blockade and retaliation for its espoused aims at ATTACKING and DESTROYING. How is that a 'peace' stance?

And you are patently one-eyed and misinformed. How is it a peace stance to be occupying another country's land, CONTINUING to destroy their homes on their land and CONTINUING to build SETTLEMENTS on THEIR LAND a 'peace' stance. Seems more like a grand idea of "destroy them, fill the place with your 'own people', then yell to the world LOOK LOOK this place is 100% Jewish people, Israel should now have the right to annex the place"

It's a recipe for continued retaliation by Israel

And occupation, continually building settlements is a recipe for peace.

Get real. Unless Hamas disavows all armed aggression policies and stops supporting militant rocket fire at Israel, no possibility exists except continued violence.

Get real. Unless Israel ends the occupation, and STOPS building settlements which are ILLEGAL by international law, no possibility exists except continued violence.


Lets just cut the crap and see what's going on. Palestine goes to UN... and what do we hear?

"Israeli diplomats have put foreign leaders on notice that their country will consider its historic peace accords with the Palestinians null and void if they ask the United Nations for a state, according to a document obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press.

Read more: http://world.time.com/2012/11/14/israel-officials-warns-against-palestinian-u-n-bid/#ixzz2CpflMLb5"

Vice Premier Moshe Yaalon, speaking in a similar vein, told Army Radio on Wednesday that his country would “have to take steps to make it clear that there will be a heavy price” if the statehood petition goes ahead.

Read more: http://world.time.com/2012/11/14/israel-officials-warns-against-palestinian-u-n-bid/#ixzz2Cpg1nlHg

Heavy price for what? What negotiations? So Palestinians go to the UN, to be recognized as a state according to the borders of the UN Resolution ITSELF, and doing so would mean paying a heavy price? So weren't Israel the one crying how 'no one wants to recognize them as a state in the Middle East'... yet THEY don't recognize Palestine according to the UN Resolution!

Man this whole 'peace talk' is bullshit.

 

[pjdude1219]

Of course I can. I just did. You can read, can't you?

its was a can't as in can't do it while remaining intellectually and morally sound not as your totally incapable of doing it.

 

[RealityCheck]

And have you asked the question why are they stooping so low to even attack Civilians to begin with? When you answer that question, you will get the answer yourself.



Like how US helped Saddam kill his own people? Mind you how US supported so many other ruthless dictators?



And you are patently one-eyed and misinformed. How is it a peace stance to be occupying another country's land, CONTINUING to destroy their homes on their land and CONTINUING to build SETTLEMENTS on THEIR LAND a 'peace' stance. Seems more like a grand idea of "destroy them, fill the place with your 'own people', then yell to the world LOOK LOOK this place is 100% Jewish people, Israel should now have the right to annex the place"



And occupation, continually building settlements is a recipe for peace.



Get real. Unless Israel ends the occupation, and STOPS building settlements which are ILLEGAL by international law, no possibility exists except continued violence.


Lets just cut the crap and see what's going on. Palestine goes to UN... and what do we hear?

​

Heavy price for what? What negotiations? So Palestinians go to the UN, to be recognized as a state according to the borders of the UN Resolution ITSELF, and doing so would mean paying a heavy price? So weren't Israel the one crying how 'no one wants to recognize them as a state in the Middle East'... yet THEY don't recognize Palestine according to the UN Resolution!

Man this whole 'peace talk' is bullshit.

That is why I said: A pox on BOTH their houses. They are both to blame. And the old cold war echoes/rivalries which made satellite states of awful scoundrels of many types is what has worsened the situation and exacerbated the old tribal/religious hatreds there. The only solution (if they are not going to stop and get together under UN auspices WITHOUT either party threatening destruction/violence) is that the UN remove the crazy lot of them as I recommended. Then there will be nothing to fight over and nature/peace will reign in their absence...and good riddance to BOTH of them. I repeat: A pox on BOTH their houses. Good luck, wherever you are in this.

 

[pjdude1219]

Have you bothered to ask yourself where and how the Hamas Rockets end up in Gaza? If you answer that logically, you will have the answer to your own confusion. If Hamas can afford to import/make rockets SPECIFICALLY to attack CIVILIANS indiscriminately, then such terrorist regimes are legitimate target for sannctions by Israel, which is the most effective entity there to enforce sanctions (blockade) to stop them getting even more dangerous indiscriminate weapons.

most of the civilians being targeted aren't protected aren't under international law do to Israel's own violations of it. civilians transfered into occupied territory ( which is basicly all of Israel not included in the partitian plan and depending on how you apply some other ones may actually be all of Israel) by an occupying power aren't afforded the protections of article 27 of the fourth geneva conventions. their are laws in place that make it illegal to do so and this clusterfuck shows why. morally reprehensible yes illegal and a war crime no.

 

[RealityCheck]

most of the civilians being targeted aren't protected aren't under international law do to Israel's own violations of it. civilians transfered into occupied territory ( which is basicly all of Israel not included in the partitian plan and depending on how you apply some other ones may actually be all of Israel) by an occupying power aren't afforded the protections of article 27 of the fourth geneva conventions. their are laws in place that make it illegal to do so and this clusterfuck shows why. morally reprehensible yes illegal and a war crime no.

Did you note where the UN has confirmed that targeting of civilians under ANY excuse is unacceptable? It's the crazies on BOTH sides that created this mess, which could have been sorted out long ago if both sides were real and reasonable instead of puppets of pst cold war powers and subsequent megalomaniacal despots who used the problem for their political ends with no real concern whether either side's CIVILIANS wanted to sort out some sustainable and non-threatening co-existence under UN auspices for the sake of the people who didn't give a dman for the rhetoric and the crazy exploitation of the conflict for ideological/religious/mercenary reasons having nothing to do with the reasonable wish for peace a nd compromise by ordinary people on BOTH sides.

But the craziness has been allowed to continue and fester while the UN is impotent and useless because of old divisions along old cold war lines. The Security Council is a farce. The UN is ridiculous. The people in the middle east are expendable pawns of crazies and zealots of all persuasions.

If it's too late for compromise and pace, then just clear the place out and remove the cause of the 'unholy mess' which is the middle east. If that is what it will take, then that is what the UN should do. Anything less than real compromise and goodwill from both sides will make my suggestion the ONLY option. The modern world cannot any longer absorb the wasted treasure and betrayed goodwill from either 'sides', for the sake of the powerless/ordinary people/civilians caught up in the mess.

A pox on both their houses....and remove them both and leave the 'holy lands' to itself in peace. G'night!

 

[pjdude1219]

In my admittedly brief perusal of the Fourth Convention, I don't recall that civilians transported or allowed to move into occupied territories are bereft of protection under the Fourth Convention. They might well be illegal, but then again if a family follows a man breaking into my house and sets up on my lawn, I'm fairly sure they're subject to protection under common law. I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to take potshots at them, for instance. Also, your refrain doesn't remotely excuse attacks on civilians by Hamas within Israel proper.

I'm sorry you feel that way but the red cross agrees with me. they don't like this grey area but if you actually think about rather than just reading it to suit your pro Israel position you'll understand why it is. doing this is essentially trying to use civilians to hold ground against an opposing military inviting these kinds of attacks.

If Geneva legal protections don't apply, I guess they'll just have to look to other defense.

Right?

not really there is only one morally and legally sound "defense" get out of occupied territory. but it doesn't surprise me you support criminals acts to continue to commit crimes because you think they deserved to commit those crimes.

I love how you insist on sliding in these ad hominem attacks while changing goal posts. First it was civilians -

there was o ad hom I'd accuse you of lying but hell we all know the mods paly favorites and some how despite being one of the biggest trolls here your protected.

- and now it's a refrain to the Geneva Conventions.

I know the horror that I relied on the document that is the fundemental basis of international law rather than simply reling on emotional appeals.

Which is the point you're trying to make, that Hamas is more moral because they care more about dead Jewish babies, or that Hamas is more moral, because they don't care about dead Jewish babies that have no legal standing as defined by your reading of the Fourth Geneva Convention?

firstly its not my reading its the reading of red cross though I will thank you for accidently implying that my reading is in line with people who study this. hamas is more moral because they are following more closely with what is allowed though personally I'd prefer no one died the palestinians homeland was invaded and conqurered and they have a right to resist.

In any event, I would certainly agree, in light of my links and the past, that Hamas is indeed far more 'concerned' with the civilian deaths it causes, so to speak. Which is to say frankly that Hamas is more 'concerned' in that they directly try to kill civilians, outright.

of course you would you actually believe the Israeli creatian myth even after I desmantled it on this site. no matter what the 2 sides do ISrael will always be the better for you no matter the facts.

:shrug: An invaded country will establish a buffer zone; the USSR did the same.

that your first instinct to go for moral behavior is the country that killed the most innocents of any country is telling.

Why do you agree with group defense on the one hand (Hamas lobbing rockets at Israeli kids) and not the other (Israel blowing the hell out of Hamas leaders/terrorists and their associates and family members)?

because one is by a defending occupied territory and one is an invading occuping force. occupiers have no right to feel safe and protected in other people's lands. by your logic the nazis were justified in killing polish civilians because their occupation forces were attacked. My heart goes out to those who dies whther they be palestinian or Israeli but the ulimate blame must go to the occupier in these cases to do other wise is to demand the weak just roll over when the strong make demands of them though it wouldn't surprise me to see you invoke such an idea other ISraeli supporters here have flat out stated the weak have no right to be free of the strong.

 

[RealityCheck]

I'm sorry you feel that way but the red cross agrees with me. they don't like this grey area but if you actually think about rather than just reading it to suit your pro Israel position you'll understand why it is. doing this is essentially trying to use civilians to hold ground against an opposing military inviting these kinds of attacks.

not really there is only one morally and legally sound "defense" get out of occupied territory. but it doesn't surprise me you support criminals acts to continue to commit crimes because you think they deserved to commit those crimes.



there was o ad hom I'd accuse you of lying but hell we all know the mods paly favorites and some how despite being one of the biggest trolls here your protected.



I know the horror that I relied on the document that is the fundemental basis of international law rather than simply reling on emotional appeals. firstly its not my reading its the reading of red cross though I will thank you for accidently implying that my reading is in line with people who study this. hamas is more moral because they are following more closely with what is allowed though personally I'd prefer no one died the palestinians homeland was invaded and conqurered and they have a right to resist.

of course you would you actually believe the Israeli creatian myth even after I desmantled it on this site. no matter what the 2 sides do ISrael will always be the better for you no matter the facts.


that your first instinct to go for moral behavior is the country that killed the most innocents of any country is telling. because one is by a defending occupied territory and one is an invading occuping force. occupiers have no right to feel safe and protected in other people's lands. by your logic the nazis were justified in killing polish civilians because their occupation forces were attacked. My heart goes out to those who dies whther they be palestinian or Israeli but the ulimate blame must go to the occupier in these cases to do other wise is to demand the weak just roll over when the strong make demands of them though it wouldn't surprise me to see you invoke such an idea other ISraeli supporters here have flat out stated the weak have no right to be free of the strong.

The problem with using the owner/occupier argument is that one side can go back in history and claim the other are the 'occupier', ad nauseum.

The reality is on the ground NOW. The past is too far muddled and not as clear-cut as the Nazi invasion/occupation scenarios you use.

The net net is that civilians on both sides are suffering because of the crazy FEUD/VENDETTA mentalities that abound in the middle east.

Until all parties see that the divisions and feuds are no longer tenable as excuses for either 'side, then both sides can get together in the new world realities and do something for their people rather than their religions/politics and tribal/terrorist (either side) way of doing business in the middle east. That is why the UN should either enforce treaties directly for co-existence or just empty the place out of both sides.

A pox on both their houses....it means neither is blameless. The ordinary person is no longer willing to become fodder for terror from either side. They just want peace and harmony as best it can be arrived at given the realities on the ground NOW not when the whole mess started.

Good luck to the ordinary folk caught up in all that madness. What a horror, what a waste, what a tragedy! History will hold the UN as it is now to account for its failings to protect/resolve such messes for the people and NOT the 'powers' who hold them hostage on both sides.

UN, especially Security Council, shame on you ALL!

 

[pjdude1219]

http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule130#refFn10


the red cross views on this for anyone interested in international law

 

[Balerion]

its was a can't as in can't do it while remaining intellectually and morally sound not as your totally incapable of doing it.

Again, you're just building straw men because you can't defend your own behavior. In order to distract from that, you've invented a position for me to take that you feel is morally wrong, when in truth I've taken no such position.

Talk about intellectual dishonesty. Holy cow.

 

[pjdude1219]

The problem with using the owner/occupier argument is that one side can go back in history and claim the other are the 'occupier', ad nauseum.

The reality is on the ground NOW. The past is too far muddled and not as clear-cut as the Nazi invasion/occupation scenarios you use.

The net net is that civilians on both sides are suffering because of the crazy FEUD/VENDETTA mentalities that abound in the middle east.

Until all parties see that the divisions and feuds are no longer tenable as excuses for either 'side, then both sides can get together in the new world realities and do something for their people rather than their religions/politics and tribal/terrorist (either side) way of doing business in the middle east. That is why the UN should either enforce treaties directly for co-existence or just empty the place out of both sides.

A pox on both their houses....it means neither is blameless. The ordinary person is no longer willing to become fodder for terror from either side. They just want peace and harmony as best it can be arrived at given the realities on the ground NOW not when the whole mess started.

Good luck to the ordinary folk caught up in all that madness. What a horror, what a waste, what a tragedy! History will hold the UN as it is now to account for its failings to protect/resolve such messes for the people and NOT the 'powers' who hold them hostage on both sides.

UN, especially Security Council, shame on you ALL!

thats a piss poor fucking excuse. I'm tired of people like you whining about how difficult it is to enforce international law. you as bad as all the other ISrael apoligists of oh well we let them get away with their crimes for this long so we can't start now. bull fucking shit other's failures to discharge their responsibilities does not negate our duty to properly discharge ours. your attitude is why the conflict continues because people like your are either to morally bankrupt or morally lazy to put proper pressure to solve the conflict in accordance with peace and justice.

 

[pjdude1219]

Again, you're just building straw men because you can't defend your own behavior. In order to distract from that, you've invented a position for me to take that you feel is morally wrong, when in truth I've taken no such position.

Talk about intellectual dishonesty. Holy cow.

in other words your to dishonest to admit you have been lying about my statements and beliefs. your truly a piece of fucking work. you've made strawman after strawman and than have the audacity to accuse me of inventing positions for you? so in addition to being a troll and dishonest as all hell your delusional as well.

 

[GeoffP]

I'm sorry you feel that way but the red cross agrees with me. they don't like this grey area but if you actually think about rather than just reading it to suit your pro Israel position you'll understand why it is. doing this is essentially trying to use civilians to hold ground against an opposing military inviting these kinds of attacks.

Oh. So instead of concentrating fire on military targets, just let loose and fly with the weapons. I thought that was more of a fascist prerogative. You should support your supposition about the Red Cross, BTW.

not really there is only one morally and legally sound "defense" get out of occupied territory. but it doesn't surprise me you support criminals acts to continue to commit crimes because you think they deserved to commit those crimes.

False again. The other morally and legally sound stance is not to deliberately attack civilians.

there was o ad hom

The part about how I "love to argue from ignorance" isn't ad hominem? Tch. They must have changed the definition when I wasn't looking, in my ignorance.

I'd accuse you of lying but hell we all know the mods paly favorites and some how despite being one of the biggest trolls here your protected.

There are so many things wrong with the above statement that I'll just ask what 'paly' means and leave it at that.

Oh, what the heck. How was it 'lying' to point out that your first goalpost was 'civilians' and that your second was the Geneva Convention? Sorry, they're still civilians, and it's still illegal to target them. Try reading the Fourth.

I know the horror that I relied on the document that is the fundemental basis of international law rather than simply reling on emotional appeals.

Spelling aside - have you actually read it? Are you familiar with the challenges to it as interpreted by Israel? They do have the right to their argument, you know, being rocketed n' all.

firstly its not my reading its the reading of red cross though I will thank you for accidently implying that my reading is in line with people who study this.

Meaning that you don't study this, I see. Instead of 'reling' on supposition, why don't you support your statements? I know this isn't your habit, but you could do it just this one time. C'mon. Just once.

hamas is more moral because they are following more closely with what is allowed though personally I'd prefer no one died the palestinians homeland was invaded and conqurered and they have a right to resist.

Do they have the right to deliberately target children, this thing you claimed they didn't do?

http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-pm-visit...003232434.html

Here's a telling clip from Hamas TV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH-IINhvQvI

of course you would you actually believe the Israeli creatian myth even after I desmantled it on this site.

Haw! Where was that, exactly?

no matter what the 2 sides do ISrael will always be the better for you no matter the facts.

Israel has a right to exist. I'm sorry that bothers you.

that your first instinct to go for moral behavior is the country that killed the most innocents of any country is telling.

Indeed: it is telling me you don't comprehend English so well.

because one is by a defending occupied territory and one is an invading occuping force. occupiers have no right to feel safe and protected in other people's lands. by your logic the nazis were justified in killing polish civilians because their occupation forces were attacked.

Children are occupiers?

Also, you didn't retract on your statement that Hamas has never deliberately attacked civilians. This needs to be done, both for the story below and for the earlier links I gave that you seemingly avoided or forgot.

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-tel-aviv-bus-bombing-20121121,0,500116.story

 

[ElectricFetus]

So there has been some kind of cease fire agreement... how long to you think that is going to last, a day, a hour?

 

[RealityCheck]

thats a piss poor fucking excuse. I'm tired of people like you whining about how difficult it is to enforce international law. you as bad as all the other ISrael apoligists of oh well we let them get away with their crimes for this long so we can't start now. bull fucking shit other's failures to discharge their responsibilities does not negate our duty to properly discharge ours. your attitude is why the conflict continues because people like your are either to morally bankrupt or morally lazy to put proper pressure to solve the conflict in accordance with peace and justice.

I pointed out the realities on the ground NOW. Your fixation with the simplistic 'black and white' tit-for-tat denial of those realities is what got them into that mess over millennia, of which the present realities are the result. Only treating the realities instead of winner-take-all arguments (which both sides can bring if they go back far enough) will help sort out this crazy legacy mess of history ancient and recent. Let them stop violence and engage in genuine peacemaking within the reality rather than try to keep scoring political/religious/power points which the populace on both sides have long ago lost all interest in. The ordinary folk on ALL 'sides' just want peace without ANY 'side' making constant tit-for-tat threats and sudden terrorist attacks which traumatize the civilian population on ALL 'sides'.

Get real. Good luck to them. But if they don't get both sides to get real and live together without the crazies on both sides drawing them into conflict again for reasons of their own, then the UN will have to take my suggestion seriously and step in and evacuate the whole lot of them on all 'sides' and send them to countries who will have them! And leave the UN-holy lands to itself for a generation or two until the blood that has been spilt by terrorists on all 'sides' has had a chance to be left to history and not dredged up by the crazies who want to start the feuding and madness all over again.

Good luck to the peacemakers, whichever guise they come in and however they accomplish it in the interests of the ordinary people on ALL 'sides'!

 

[GeoffP]

I'm not sure what in hell pj was trying to address when he wrote that to you. Who exactly were you meant to be making excuses for? Maybe he meant some other poster.

 

[StrawDog]

Both sides are trigger happy buffoons.

This is far too simplistically stated. For the record, this round of trigger happiness was (again) kicked of by the Israeli buffoons, which in fact entitles the victims to some measure of self defence and retaliation. And of course shooting fish in a barrel with missiles is a altogether different level of trigger happiness than using catapults when backed against the wall.

 

[RealityCheck]

This is far too simplistically stated. For the record, this round of trigger happiness was (again) kicked of by the Israeli buffoons, which in fact entitles the victims to some measure of self defence and retaliation. And of course shooting fish in a barrel with missiles is a altogether different level of trigger happiness than using catapults when backed against the wall.

Come off it, mate. The warmongers on all sides know exactly what is going on. They want war for their own ends, and "civilians on all sides be damned" they say. Else there would have been peace long ago. And since when are rockets smuggled in from Iran etc ''catapults'. It's the propaganda and inflamed hatreds for political/religious/powerplay agendas on all sides that keeps this mess going.

Northern Ireland was a similar mess; but they sorted it out when the violence from all 'sides' was seen for what it was, inflamed by self-interested crazies of many sorts. The realities finally dawned on all sides and the mess is over.

The same can happen for this mess. But only when all 'sides' see the realities and think of the people not the religious/political/mercenary organizations who would perpetuate the mess for their own agendas.

Let's all drop all this "I'm right..no...I'm right" silliness on all sides. The people are sick of it, just as in Northern Ireland. The modern world can solve problems which ancient world perpetuated from tribal/religious hatreds. The new world in the middle east should shuck off the old tribal/religious/political feuds and encumbrances, and just institute secular govts/organizations working FOR THE PEOPLE and not for ancient hatreds and ignorance.

Let the people come together and face the realities without these crazy warmongers within and without the lands dictating terms to their own people through the barrel of a gun. Sort it out humanely on all sides without bringing ancient tit-for-tat irrelevancies which only get in the way of lasting peace for all the people there.

Good luck to them. I hope and trust reason and goodwill will no longer be held hostage to one or other terrorist warmonger organization/mentality on ANY 'side'.